Pentallion

I'm glad Jeff and David are weighing in on this.  It's very helpful, thank you guys.  My first draft didn't have taboos, though the SC had them, because taboos are already covered elsewhere in RQG, but as people seemed to think I should include them I later changed it. So I will edit those back out.

As for Daka Fal, that's fine, I get it.  There won't be a canonical Kolat coming out.  This thread becomes a sort of "Your Glorantha may Vary" using this cult write up.  As I said, one of my players doesn't really want another Daka Fal shaman.  He wants something new.  About 10 years ago on an older forum, I did a cult write up for Eolian shamans and Greg gave it his seal of approval.  My friend loved being an Eolian shaman.  It was very much like what the Kolat shaman now looks like except of course for different spirits, Reindeer, Fox, Otter, Raven and Owl.  And we didn't have RQG of course.  So if anyone wants to use what's written up here, then hope you have fun.

If you want to stay within what Chaosium has planned then evidently this isn't the way to go.

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

This is pretty much the feedback we get. The handful of grognards grumbling about a few slight discrepancies seem to be looking for something to grumble about. Then again, it could just be a case of "not really my kind of game" - which is just fine. No game is going to work for everyone. I got a long laundry list of popular games that don't work for me.

Jeff

I hope you don't take that attitude and not clean up the rules where it's necessary.  This isn't a few grognards grumbling.  As the OP said, he's new to the game.  This isn't about finding a gripe or not liking a rule, it's about the rules flat out contradicting themselves and causing confusion. 

You should be able to accept constructive criticism guys.  We all love your game.  I personally would love it to thrive.

11 hours ago, Jeff said:

I'm not sure I would present Kolat for RQG at all like I did for Sartar Companion. 

Kolat is the source of Air Elementals. He's more of a name or title than anything else - Orlanth cultists just ask Orlanth to summon up an Air Elemental and use him to command them or dismiss them. 

Now there are a variety of shamanic traditions around in Dragon Pass. Despite what has been said, probably the most common is through ancestor worship aka Daka Fal or through another cult with a strong shamanic element like Waha or the Golden Bow. There's also those rare individuals who don't get chosen by a god during their initiation rites and need to find another, more arduous path to the Great Mystery - the path of the apprentice shaman. The specific path is handed down from shaman to apprentice, and all these paths collectively get called Kolati in Dragon Pass.

The thing is, one of my players has played all kinds of shamans, from Eolian to Daka Fal to that shadowy duck one who I am blanking on right now and don't want to look up lol.  And right now he's like "Daka Fal again? Of all the shamans he's played, that kind is his least favorite.  No offense, but it's kinda dull and basic.  Kolatings, as described in Sartar Companion sound way more fun to him.

Its not that complex, the constant contradictions in the rulesbook just make it seem so.

For a game that took so many years to finally come out with, the editing leaves something to be desired. 

I was thinking the shaman has to offer either a sacrifice (like a deer) or a service (GM has to come up with something.)  Then instead of spirit combat, the shaman rolls his gambling skill vs the spirits Spirit Combat skill.  One roll, winner take all.  It's supposed to represent the toss of the gambling sticks.

Updated the initial cult description.  thanks for all the input guys.

Another point that undermines the perception that there are too many spells here for Kolatings.

Babeester Gor gets 7 Rune spells, all common and enchantments in RQG.  In Sartar Companion she gets Axe Trance and three abilities of which she can only call upon one depending upon who she intends to kill.

So RQG gives her far more spells, allowing her do to far more things.  All I've given Kolatings are just the spells needed to do what is described to be within their powers.

Same holds true for Engizi and Heler.

Odayla is an exception.  In the Sartar Companion he gets tons of spells, but in RQG he only gets three.

One thing I'll agree with Phil here is that compared to other cults, where the average is 7-9 rune spells, I see I've given Kolat 11.  I can see trimming it down to 8 or 9.  The problem is, in order to do what it is said they can do, I can't figure out which spells to drop. 

Hope that everyone flocks to MeWe now because I for one will never reactivate my FB account.

25 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, but I think what Phil is pointing out is that an Orlanthi in RQG  is still going to be limited to flying once or twice per adventure, depending on how many points of the spell he has, while an Orlanthi in HQ  can fly as much as he wants. 

 

yeah, but the original argument becomes even more undermined in that case.  In HQ they gave out all these spells and they could use them at will.  Here, they can only use them on a very limited basis, so less magic is actually available, not more.   No one has given me even the slightest reason to agree that there are too many spells available here. 

On 8/29/2018 at 9:12 AM, PhilHibbs said:

There are plenty of epic feats of magic documented in Gloranthan lore, but making one of them reproducible just with one sorcery spell is... surprising. With a spell like that, I'm surprised it isn't happening every day all over the Empire and its provinces. It ought to be as common as mass shootings in the US.

We know that dragons have risen from the earth several times, but I don't see a sorcery spell that any adventurer can cast that raises a true dragon.

Ok, those examples are beyond a single adventurer, there's clearly some ritualized group casting or heroquesting going on to create effects on that scale. But the base Moonfire spell is ridiculous nonetheless! I don't think there's ever been a RuneQuest sorcery spell writeup with that kind of destructive power.

Agreed, Moonfire, as written, is ridiculous. Even ruling that Inscribed spells cannot be added onto later, let's consider for a moment what the Lunars can do here and would do in a heartbeat:

Gather together a group of Lunar Rune Lord philosophers who all inscribe the spell Moonfire.  These guys just go in by themselves and get within 2.5 km of the enemy army and BOOM!  Army gone.  Rune Lord philosophers don't care cuz 1d10 Divine Intervention just cost them some rune points, no big deal.

Then said Lunar sorcerers advance within 2.5 km of Sartarite cities and BOOM!  You will submit or die.

Who needs stupid bats?

No, that isn't a thing in WB/RM so it isn't a thing in Glorantha.

Moonfire the sorcery spell is banned in my Glorantha and should be either banned or severely nerfed in anyone's Glorantha.

51 minutes ago, g33k said:

Wait... Oakfed is a subcult of Kolat?  Hrm.  Is this canon?

From the Sartar Companion:

Quote

 

Other Kolating Spirit Societies:

Spirit magicians of the Kolat Tradition often belong to another spirit society in addition to the Seven Winds. These are both loose organizations and relationships with important spirits. Some wellknown spirit societies include:

 

Chalk Man

Oakfed

Serkos

Granny Vo and Uncle

I would point out that Oakfed in RQG gives out far more Rune spells than the magic Oakfed in the Sartar Companion gives out.   Since that would seem to undermine the argument that (whichever game system Sartar Companion uses that I've always ignored while playing RQ3) gives out way more magic than RQG. 

I like the suggestion above that the shaman needs to go out and find the spirits that give him those Rune spells instead of just sacrificing Rune Points for them.  I would rather approach Kolat as a Spirit Society than a Cult.  However, RQG doesn't make such distinctions, treating the Spirit Society of Oakfed as a minor cult where one gets their rune spells through ritual worship ceremonies.  So I think it's a game system mechanic and whether they deal with spirits for the powers or worship them is splitting hairs, the mechanic is identical to theism either way.

Another reason not buying into that this is too much and I should use the Oakfed spirit society as a template is because Oakfed is one of SEVERAL subcults available to Kolati shamanism.

What I make of that is Kolats get a large spell list.

Not a lot of people think of countermagic as the offensive spell it can be.  Cast countermagic 4 on that Humakti's sword before he goes to Truesword it and watch the consternation on his face.

And yet Sartar Companion gives them:

Before Me. They provide charms relating to the winds.
On My Right.  They provide charms that relate to cold weather.
Behind Me. They provide charms that Change the Weather.
On My Left. They provide charms that relate to blocking spirit attacks.
Above Me. They provide charms that defend against magic, or rebound spirit magic against caster, or track spirit magic back to its source.
Below Me. They provide charms that fight one of the Six Foes: undead corpses, possession spirits, spirits of death powers, spirits of diseases, and curses sent by women

So not sure I agree that what I came up with is way too much for Kolat.  Sounds like Kolat gets a ton of spells.  When you look for spirit magic that does these things you don't find much, but you can find all these things as rune magic, so went with that.

By "overcoming countermagic" they mean in a situation where you are trying to cast bladesharp on an object that already has countermagic up.  It's not talking about hitting a dude who has countermagic up with your bladesharpened weapon.

Not sure why Kolat was left off the cult list for Shamanism since it seems to represent Sartarite shamanism.  I looked up Kolati magic in the Sartar Companion and tried to figure out the rune spells.  Here's the rough Cult Spirit Society description that I have so far.  Not the final draft by any means.

Kolat   spirit-air

Quote

The Kolat Tradition is the only male path to shamanism amongst the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass. Although some other predominantly male cults have some limited spirit worship (notably Odayla and Urox), only Kolat provides a broad understanding of the Spirit World. Serdrodosa is the female path to shamanism amongst the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass. Other spirit societies amongst the Orlanthi build upon the Kolating or Serdrodosing traditions. - Sartar Companion

Instead of negotiating with spirits, Kolatings gamble with them using gambling sticks.

Holy Days

Kolat has only one holy day open to outsiders.  That is Good Winds Day.  Other Kolati holy days are determined by the use of their gambling sticks.

Cult Skills:

Cult Lore (Kolat), Speak Spiritspeech, Spirit Lore, Spirit Combat, Gaming, Worship Kolat

Favored Passion:  Gambling

Spirit Magic:  All

Common Rune Magic: Axis Mundi and see below

Special Rune Magic: See below

Enchantments:  The usual.

Obtaining Rune Magic:  Except for Axis Mundi (and enchantments for full shamans) Kolati don't obtain Rune Spells in the same way theists do.  Instead, they must travel to the Otherworld and find a friendly cult spirit that knows the Rune Magic, gamble with them and win their magic.  In return for the spell, the shaman must take on an additional taboo.  Once a taboo has been taken for a specific type of spirit, no further taboos are necessary to obtain more of that type of spirits rune magic.

Before Me -  Hhu Ho  ("breath friend") air spirits - Summon Air (small/medium). 

On My Right - Tular Narnei (“Uncle Frost”) air spirits - Snow. 

Behind Me - Uuuh Hu (“Wrong Season”) air spirits - Increase/Decrease Wind

On My Left - Seleran (“the Deep Well”) water spirits - Spirit Block. 

Above Me - Veren Vu (“Sky Defender”) fire spirits - Reflection

Below Me - Zolan Zubar (“Hell Demon”) darkness spirits - Turn Undead

Okay, that's my second draft.  I'm sure the more knowledgeable of you out there can perfect this.  Let's have at it.

14 hours ago, jeffjerwin said:

Sheng Seleris has a blueprint for becoming a God and conquering the Moon, based on austerities/ascetic devotions and a pattern of two defeats and a third victory.

 

So do you suppose SS had the EWF Banner?

Ahh, but you're assuming everyone has gold.  If only 1% of the farmers get all the gold, however, it spells hell for the other 99%.

I wasn't inferring they became kings, just that they had enough money to never have to work again.  If you don't think this would cause an economic collapse, take that up with Sandy Peterson, it's his idea.

10 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Do the Heortlings consider land purchasable with money?

If you had enough money to be a king would you keep working the farm or leave it for the trollkin?

I agree about rolling up characters from Pavis.  They really need to be their own thing.

They flood the area with trollkin loaded with gold who buy up the farms.  Gold crashes the economy and since trollkin cant farm, food becomes scarce.

My son cast an illusionary window opening in a roof.  I ruled that since he believed he could drop down into the room below he did so.  MGF.  Might be a little broken, but wtf.

4 hours ago, Steve said:

The presence of aging doesn't prove that Time existed as such, at least not in terms of the linear time that later exists. Otherwise you could argue that because one event appeared to happen in the God Time "before" another, related event, then that also proves that Time existed then. It's surely far more complicated than that, like a being in three dimensional space trying to understand existence in, say, seven dimensions.

Nice try, though

 

Maybe that's what your Zzaburi taught you and maybe he's right, but as the Blue Vadeli told me, "maybe it's canon....and maybe it isn't."    YGMV