Pentallion

9 hours ago, womble said:

Nope. In none of the Detect spells does it allow the caster to use the spell on anyone else. They all say "...from the caster..." Not "from the target".

 

 

Regardless, CM only stops spells being cast on YOU.  Detection cast on the caster isn't blocked by CM.  So the caster can detect you are an enemy and there is nothing CM can do about it.

My thoughts are my solution is correct.  

Example: I cast bladesharp on my sword.  CM obviously doesnt stop it.  I cast detect enemies on myself.  Again CM doesnt stop it.  I hit you, my bladesharp passing through your "CM zone" is not dispelled.  I sense youre an enemy.  My senses passing through your "CM zone" is not dispelled.

CM is useless vs detect spells.  

Anywhere in CM it says different is an error and should be corrected.

All problems solved.

EDIT:  Just read the offending text.  You guys are misunderstanding it.  CM will stop anyone casting Detection spells ON YOU.  ie, if you have CM up and someone wants you to be able to detect something and cast a detection spell on you so you can, for example, detect enemies, then the CM will block it.

That is not the same thing as CM blocking your ability to detect enemies if you have the detection spell already cast on you.

Also, Detection spells are all Ranged, Focused, Instant.  Focused should have been explained fully.  You HAVE to have the Focus to cast a Focused spell, unlike other spells that can be cast by spending two melee rounds if you don't have the focus.  The reason being that the detection spell requires the Focus to point for you, like a divining rod.  That's why only detection spells are described as Focused.  Without the focus, the spell simply won't work.

Well, then the conundrum still can be solved by the reality that the detect spell only targets the detector, not the enemies.  What we're faced with is that in any situation where a group of obvious hostiles are approaching, spells up, the standard operating procedure is to hit them with a detect enemies, not because you need to know, but because it will drop all their CM's.  That makes CM useless.

And here is where we get out of the problem:  The spell isn't countered by CM because it doesn't target the people CM is defending against.  It targets the detector so only HIS CM can block it.

People coming at you with CM up are detected as enemies and the CM doesn't go down.  Since Detect Enemies is not targeting the enemies, it is not affected by CM not is CM affected by it.  Rare case.  Problem solved.

This also leaves Detection Blank workable because then you don't detect enemies at all.

So I won a free pdf on a Twitch broadcast.  Do I still get the discount?

Calendar:  Earth Season.  Orlanth and Odayla's holy days moved from Day 39 to Day 32.

11 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

The target is the spell is the character it's cast upon (or the caster), not the ones who want to hurt him. So there is only one target. 

That's also why Detect Enemies works even when you are unaware of the presence of person intending to harm you, like when you suspect an ambush.

 

No, because none of those 10 guys are "targeted" by the spell. Detect Enemies is very clear about who the target of the spell is. It's who you cast if for, or the caster himself- not the "enemies". You don't actually check to see if that mean looking guy lurking in the alleyway is an "enemy", you cast the spell on yourself (the target) and the spell Detects anyone in range who intends to harm you.

If your friend has Countermagic up. 

Now, according to RQ3 (the only version that tells us the sequencing of the spell) the Detect spell will "ping" enemies closest to farthest away, and interact with Countermagic spells sequentially. 

Ahh, you are right.  I wasnt considering the correct target of the spell is not the enemy but the detector.  

I think the easiest way to clear up the CM debate is to rule that the CM negates the detect enemy.  But the caster doesnt know its knocked down.  All he knows is he doesnt detect any enemies.

FWIW, I've had an adventure where an NPC Orlanthi had abducted an Orlanthi woman for ransom and instead married her.  

I was met with shock from someone I felt shouldnt need an explanation.  Why would she marry him?  

Orlanthi culture and tradition.  That whole heroquest that goes on about it.

In the real world greeks, romans, vikings, the women many times married their abductors, became free members of society and were treated like clan.

Instead, I was challenged about her agency.  Like the story was about 21st century women in the bronze age.

You would be amazed who you find cant keep cultures separate.

1 hour ago, Bohemond said:

I've had NUMEROUS conversations with gamer women about sexism and rape culture in gaming. It's not that women can't handle it. It's that they shouldn't have to handle it unless they explicitly say they want to. Given that rape is an ever-present real-world issue that most women live with (in the form of having to actually plan out how to stay safe at parties and bars and heading home from work, etc), most women I know don't want it to be an issue that comes up in their gaming. 
 

Then adapt your game accordingly.  I'm not sure what your point of this thread is in the first place.

Detection spells require focus.  That's their duration.  You cannot focus on every possible target simultaneously.  You might see 10 guys coming up the road, but you only focus on one at a time.  If asked what shirt colors each had, you'd have to look at each one separately.  Therefore, the Detect spell would get countermagicked by the first one you focused upon and if the detect has the mps to blow through any of them it will blow through all of them, but if it is just enough cause the CM to counter the detect and drop the CM, it will happen on the first instance and not drop all of them.  Of course, one will get the general impression that there are enemies coming if some of them aren't CM'd, but once a CM knocks down the spell, the impression of danger will vanish.

Detect magic does not detect spells, just enchantments and magical objects.  So a detect magic won't drop or be dropped by CM unless and enchanted object is CM'd.

I heard there's a Donandar Trickster.  Many famous songs including "Everybody plays the fool."  "Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right"  "Fool in the Rain."  and his biggest hit "Fool on the Hill."

9 minutes ago, Manu said:

About the fishermen : The farmers have Barntar as God, what do the fishermen have? Is there a God of the fishermen in the Orlanthi Pantheon?

Heler for riverfolk.  Since we're talking Pamaltela, however, I leave that answer to the grognards.

Idk, back in the 80's the six Dragonlance novels were all top 10 bestsellers simultaneously.  A first and only time that's ever happened.  And what was Legends really about?  A codependent relationship between a drug abuser (Raistlin's drug was his magic) and his brother (Caramon wasn't whole until he finally let himself see Raistlin for who he really was).  People into fantasy aren't necessarily trying to escape the issues that plague them in real life, but actually enjoy relating to their heroes.

And role play is fantastic therapy.

Most new players are going to ask "Who are the Kitori?" and most new GMs are gonna scratch their heads.  You should at least make a quick exposition of who the factions are.  Also, family histories come before rune affiliations.  I'd edit out the modifiers for runes.

7 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

"nobody is claiming that the storm gods are "good guys". " 

Given that most PCs (the males at least) gravitate toward Storm Gods--Orlanth in all his incarnations, Urox, Humakt, maybe Odayla and Yinkin, I'm pretty sure a large segment of the player base sees Orlanth and his kin as the good guys. And the game has generally taken an Anti-Lunar stance, which positions the Red Goddess' main opponent, Orlanth, as the hero in the meta-story. 

The meta-story that culminates in ALL the gods being killed by the heroes.  Think on that then get back to me that Orlanth is one of the "good guys".

8 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

Yes. But we're 21st century people operating in a 21st century milieu. 21st century players, especially female players, may very well find this myth to be a real problem. Just because rape was a common occurrence in the ancient world doesn't mean it should get a pass in our fictional story-setting. There's nothing in this myth itself that identifies what Orlanth does to Ernalda to be a mistake that he grows past, which means that it's easy to read this myth as essentially championing Orlanth's behavior rather than undermining it. I'm very familiar with Glorantha (being playing in it since 1980 or so), including the whole 'Orlanth fixes his mistakes' thing and the idea that Ernalda has more control that it seems, and neither of those ideas emerged for me as I read through the myth a good dozen times. If I missed it, I'm pretty sure a whole lot of other people will miss it too. 

As I'm sure we're all aware, table-top gaming has a long history of not being very friendly to female players. Glorantha is, I think, a friendlier game world for women than a lot of the alternatives, but I know a couple of women who find the highly-gendered nature of Glorantha pretty uncomfortable, and a myth like this strikes me as likely to trigger female players who have experienced domestic violence or rape. I'm in the early stages of planning a large-scale Sartar LARP that will probably involve a fair number of female players, so I need to be thinking about how a myth like this is going to read to female players. 

 

I'd read it to female players bluntly and with no apologies.  It's a bronze age world.  Women can handle that.  Give them more credit.

I know Newt is doing it as all soldiers.  I guess what I failed to communicate is that I feel it should be run with a group of survivors, not military only.  As he put it, it's inspired by old war movies.  Well, I'd cast Ingrid Bergman as the Teelo Nori missionary who came to feed the poor and homeless.  Sydney Longstreet as the Etyries merchant who tries to bargain his way out of Prax (probably finding out that money can't buy away his sins), Peter Lorre would be the cowardly Lunar deserter.  The only soldier to survive the liberation of Pavis because he abandoned his post and fled through a tunnel. 

I'm just saying, it's an excellent premise but there's more than one way to play it if a GM so chooses.  It needn't just be Lunar soldiers.

7 hours ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

While I agree with this, and was about to post something similar, I also understand if a GM or Guide or whatever might feel like adapting things to be a bit more palateable for their players - especially if some of the players are women, or from other groups that have historically been treated very badly. Not to mention people who've actually suffered abuse themselves on a personal level.

Glorantha already deviates from RW Bronze age cultures in some aspects to make things a bit less rigid perhaps, and to open up for fun quests and the like, and while some of that is possibly based on archaeological and anthropological discoveries, other aspects are, well, made up to serve the idea of adventurism.

Gloranthan mythology never seemed to shy away from these issues IMO.  Just look at Thed, goddess of Rape.  She was wronged and is really a tragic figure.

These are adult themes and nobody is claiming that the storm gods are "good guys".

Zeus raped Hera to shame her into marriage. Some of the Indian and Greek tales are horrifying seen through a modern lens.

Bronze age peoples don't have modern day sensibilities, nor should they.

There would be all kinds of Lunars.  Etyries merchants.  Deezola priestess.  Grantland farmers.  An Irrippi Ontor initiate that worked at the missionary giving food to the poor, etc.

There most likely would be no soldiers save a cowardly deserter.

Eurmal is really Lanbril plotting to destroy the gods.  Lanbril, being mortal, escaped the Covenant.  Lanbril as Eurmal lied about his vow to the Covenant.  He walks the world bringing disorder in order to one day destroy the gods.  YGMV.

Well I hope its out on Windows soon.

3 hours ago, soltakss said:

We asked that at a recent Convention and the answer was "Probably, eventually", but they were going to wait and see how the CoC one panned out.

I think they should just pop a sub forum on here and see how that works out.

This kind of creative work is why I asked a couple months back if Chaosium was going to make a special forum for fan created content.

Like they have for CoC.

It STILL hasnt come out on Android?

Zistor merely made himself the point of reference.  Paradox solved.  Everything else became relative to Zistor.