Pentallion

On 1/1/2017 at 11:47 AM, Zit said:

 

 

Just like the Schrödinger's cat which is simultaneously in and out of the Underworld. And conversely. 

Yinkin was Orlanth's inspiration for the LBQ.

16 hours ago, Darius West said:

So, if you are beneath the underworld you aren't dead?  But surely you have to pass through the underworld to reach this place beneath the underworld where you suddenly aren't dead anymore?

Again, as I said earlier, the Cradle finds itself travelling the river Styx, which divides the land of the living from the land of the dead.  It is in neither realm and yet both.  (Which, btw, is why Styx's brother Vivamort is so mythologically bound to utter destruction there.)

Cross that river, you'll be dead.  Go to the other side, you live.  As it journeys down that river, it is going to either end up with a live birth or a dead birth.  That will be decided upon its completion of the journey.

And in the case of the cradle from 1621, I like to think that either the world will be destroyed or reborn, such is the mythological ramifications of that particular journey.

8 hours ago, Belgath said:

Ok the giants  that use the cradle's to take their babies to the underworld to, grow up. Are thay cusiderd dead? One other question if giants  going into the underworld is a natural part of the giants lifecycle what did they do befor The spike exploded?

I could be totally wrong here, this is just my own thoughts, but I don't think the giant cradles pass into the land of the dead.  I think they travel down the River Styx, never crossing into the land of the dead.  Also, I'm pretty sure that the cradles are an invention of the giants after the introduction of Time because they needed a way for their children to grow up outside of Time as they age too slowly to do so otherwise.  Before the spike exploded such measures weren't necessary.

11 hours ago, Darius West said:

I don't think Humakt or any hero quester who is physically alive on entering underworld is actually dead.  I think that is a poetic affectation that others have mistaken for a truth.  If it were true, then no Humakti should ever leave the underworld once they enter it for any reason.  My source is Cults of Prax.  As resurrection is defined as all forms of coming back from the dead by any means, not just the spell, the above follows.  Otherwise Humakt would probably be a cult that accepted undeath too.  They are prepared to accept other people resurrecting, but don't think they like it.

Your alleged contradiction, however, isn't about what you think, it's about what Jeff says.  Jeff says they are actually dead.  So you can't dodge the legitimate question posed to you under those terms as you're arguing that what Jeff says is inconsistent.  But what Jeff says ISN'T inconsistent.  The burden of proof lies upon you.  So let's go back and look:  Jeff says Humakt CAN and DOES choose to walk out of Hell.  No problemo.  Jeff says the only taboo is being brought back from Hell by anyone else.  Surely, as lord of Death, Humakt gets the say over who comes back from Hell, not CA or anyone else casting a resurrection spell.  Death is HIS rune.  Since HE walked out of Hell so can his faithful.  But ONLY he and his faithful are the masters of death.  no one else can bring back a Humakti because that would be giving them power over death itself, which they CANNOT have.

You don't have to agree, nor even like that reality, but it's not inconsistent nor contradictory in any way and simply ignoring that, or saying "I don't think" isn't an argument, it's being argumentative and there's a difference.

On 12/19/2016 at 0:24 AM, Jeff said:

Humakti may not be "called back from the dead in any way" - that means resurrection, summoned as a ghost, undead, or whatever. However, a Humakti can leave the Realm of the Dead if they know the secret path and it is their own actions - not the summoning of another. In that way, they repeat the deeds of their god. That is no more a contradiction in the cult's beliefs than the summoning of Chaos by Orlanth cultists as part of their rituals.

Ghosts in this world are spirits of the dead who *should* be in the Realm of the Dead but aren't for one reason or another.

But this whole discussion has now reached the "how many angels dance on the head of pins" point. 

I think that pretty much clears up the entire debate.  Except, of course, that we all know only three angels can dance on the head of a pin because after that, a little kid reaches the center of his tootsie roll pop after three licks.  Why the one has anything to do with the other no one knows, but the answer to both are the same.

Okay, so say you physically travelled to the underworld, you didn't heroquest to get there.  Someone casts sever spirit.  Your spirit separates from your body.  Your body stays though, right?  Because obviously, on a HQ it might return to where the ritual started, but in this case, you aren't in a ritual, you walked.  So if I'm correct and your body stays there, can your spirit reenter it freely?  If not, what magic is necessary to reunite the spirit with the body while both are in the underworld?

2 hours ago, styopa said:

To be a member, you have to change your shirt every hour, and if someone asks you why your shirt is different, you simply insist it really never was different, but that they were perhaps misunderstanding the shirt previously, and that how they perceive your shirt now is, in fact, correct.

Which strikes me as how Vadel explained his explorations to Zzabur.  When you ask me why the world is different now that I've explored it, I simply insist that the world never really was different, but that perhaps you were misunderstanding the world previously and ho you perceive it now is, in fact, correct.

Then Zzabur cried "heresy!" skinned Vadel and so the wars began....

Greg's minions understood all along.

The Lunars are up next.  Now it gets tougher.

Orlanth without Ernalda?  Now that's a place that rains a lot cuz he's so sad.  Awwwwww!

But on a serious note Tindalos is obviously a God Learner!  Oria might be like Ernalda, but saying she is Ernalda is a God Learner construct.

12 hours ago, ChildOfEru said:

Can you give some references to the 'Hidden Greens'?   I'm not familiar with that.   

The original Chaos Set can be be infinite.   The real assumption here is that the set does have an Aleph number.   "aleph numbers are a sequence of numbers used to represent the cardinality (or size) of infinite sets "   -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number

The conclusion that I have drawn from this is that when reality forms out of the chaos;  then the reality that is formed is entire and complete.   What follows from that is what we normally think of as 'chaos' isn't really an intrusion from the chaos set but rather a bit reality we have not discovered yet.    Rephrased:   Intrusions from Chaos Set should not happen and what folks normally call 'chaos' are actually part of the original Reality Set that formed out of the Chaos Set.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All you had to say was "Vadel was right."  Which we Vadeli have known all along.  At last, an illuminated brother!

On 11/30/2016 at 6:22 AM, simonh said:

I'll chip in on the pro-podcast side. I listen to them on the way to/from work, mostly while walking which otherwise would be dead time, so they're fantastically convenient. Also sometimes while cooking.

Simon Hibbs

yeah, I'd be sad if the podcasts stopped.  I don't do "skim" I read everything and that takes time.  But podcasts I can listen to while excercising, cooking, whenever.  And I like hearing how Gloranthan words are pronounced.  Well, except Bestiary. 

In Layman's terms.

I had some friends who liked playing a group of elves for several years.  Been playing RQ since the early 80's and when my main group finished the Argrath Saga one of them remarked that these were the most powerful characters ever.  I laughed real hard and told him, I know some elves that will just kick your butt!!!

It's my experience that well played elves are amongst the deadliest creatures in Glorantha.

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I have intended Chronomancy, in Entekosiad (and the Lunar Way) to be the ability of the Lunars to sit in one place and to move themselves (and their party) ahead "in time" through the mythic ages while HeroQuesting. At the moment they can not move backward, though they are going to have the chance to learn this in the Hero Wars whe many new methodologies become possible.

Sincerely,
Greg Stafford

 

http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd10/2004.01/0025.html

That was from 2004  Later in that thread Greg replied to the following question:
 

Quote

 

>I wonder just what you could achieve with that?

The end of the world, in fact, which is actually not going to be welcomed by most living beings. Like several of the wonderful tools that are going to be offered to the player characters in the Hero Wars yet to come, this one provides opportunities and vast powers whose use will be more than just questionable.

Sincerely,
Greg Stafford

 

And somewhere, which I can't find yet, but I read some years back, they discuss how Chronomancers jumped back in time to save Hon-Eel from the night of Horrors but found that all they could do was partake of the event just as it happened originally.  However, this could be a mistaken perspective.  Afterall, if I jump back in time, stop the Titanic from sinking, when I return, we all remember that the Titanic never sank to begin with and all I did was reenact the saving of the Titanic.

Then what about Lunar Chronomancers?  Didn't they drop into the Night of Horrors out of the sky and fail to save Hon-Eel?  In fact, all that happened is they found themselves in the role of something that had already happened?

(Which I believe means they changed time but from the current times perspective, what they did "already happened")

I'm so glad we're going to have a best Jerry again.

One thing though, I know Jeff is pronouncing it "correctly", but he has to stop it.  It's BEASTiary.  I know. look it up, but the dictionary is just WRONG.  It's BEASTiary.

Once upon a time my English teacher used to say Aint isn't a word.  Well guess what grandma?  AINT is a word!  And just because all the English professors in the world said it wasn't, it IS.

And all those la ti da English majors can stop with the stupid pronunciation of the word BEASTiary just because some mideval half illiterate, leech loving, didn't take baths, dim wit couldn't pronounce or spell words right.

It's BEASTiary. 

7 hours ago, Flaklad said:

What is the difference between Mostali and Dwarves?

 

Don't you mean between Mostali and Brithini?

Glad people are enjoying it.  Now I've done gone and have to tell the whole tale!

So back at High Llama Pass, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas find the Cut Throats and learn their friends Pippin and Merry were sold to a merchant.  "He said he could fetch a good price for shaved dwarves. in Sheshnela."

This pissed off Gimli. "And what did you get in return for our friends freedom you puny mortal!"

"Chill dude," the leader of the Cut Throats replied,"He gave us some of the good stuff from Erontree.  He handed Legolas some wrapped up herbs that were burning on one end.  Gimli expected the elf to recoil in horror or fear from the flame, but instead the elf gladly took the herbs, saying "No stems no seeds that we don't need, Aldryami Gold is" he took a long drag on the burning herbs and began coughing "bad ass weed!"

They passed away the hours - and the Aldryami Gold - and for a time forgot about their erstwhile friends.

"And then the Brithini said, I'd tap that!" Legolas was saying as everyone roared with laughter when Argrath noticed the dwarf wasn't enjoying the festive mood. 

"What troubles you?" the Orlanthi asked.

"My entire purpose is to protect those hairless dwarves and now I've lost them." Gimli replied.

Legolas gazed upon the dwarf with glassy bloodshot eyes.  "you know those weren't really dwarves don't you?  Those were just little humans the Brithini had tapped the crap out of."

The leader of the Cut Throats snorted, "what did they call themselves?  Hobbits?"

"THERE ARE NO HOBBITS IN GLORANTHA!" they all cried, laughing uproariously till tears came from their eyes.

Meanwhile, Frodo and Sam were nearly to the foothills when they decided to camp out.  Frodo lay awake that night, certain that whoever was following them would make an appearance.

Smeagol crept quietly into their camp.

Meanwhile on the way to the City of Brass, the Tin Dwarf asks Dorothy where she got those shiny red shoes.

"Glenda the Good Witch gave them to me.  Dorothy explains.  "She said I should wear cherry red shoes because that would signify, symbolize, I forget, but she said once they saw those shoes they'd know who to send me to."

"Is that all she said?" the dwarf asked.

"Well, no, she said something to the little people as I walked off.  She said 'I'd tap that.' and they all thought it was very funny.  Strange people."  Dorothy didn't see the Jack O'Bear and the Tin Dwarf exchange glances.

"By the way," the dwarf asked the Jack O'Bear, "Why are you dressed like a scarecrow?"

"We all dress this way where I'm from."  The Jack O'Bear answered.

"where's that?"

"Rabbit Hat Farm."

"Hmm.  Never heard of it."

"I'm not from around here."

Suddenly, the Basmoli started laughing.  "Oh, I get it!  I'd tap that.  hahaha!"  Then he saw the dwarf staring at him and giving a meaningful look at Dorothy, who was very perplexed.  "oh, um, excuse me.  yeah, weird people."  the lion man mumbled.

They continued down the muddy path.

So it was in Bad Deal that the "dwarves" met some other travelling companions.  Boromir, a knight from Loskalm, was on an Errant Quest.  Aragorn, an Orlanthi, was exiled from Jonatela.  An iron dwarf named Gimli, having heard of the hairless dwarves, vowed to guard them until they grew their hair back so they could return with honor to Nida and an elf named Legolas, an spruce elf from Ballid.  He was fond of saying "The Spruce is Loose!" and considered himself quite the dryad's elf.  Together they went south towards Lankst.   Frodo said nothing, but he was certain they were being followed. 

As they trudged down the mountain path, Sam turned to Frodo.  "Say what Frodo?"

"I didn't say anything Sam."

Sam shrugged and continued walking..  Then he turned around.  "There!  You said it again!"

Frodo had heard it too.  "It wasn't me!  Quiet!"

Then they heard it again.  "It's the Ring!"  Frodo held it to his ear and listened carefully. 

"What's it saying?" Sam asked.  By now Boromir had come over to see what the hold up was.

"It says, Get me the F outta this ring!"

"A talking ring!" Sam said in awe.

"You have a talking ring?"  Boromir asked. "I'm on a quest for such a ring.  The Laughing Ring of Talar.  Give it to me!"

"But this ring doesn't laugh, it just demands to be let out."  Frodo didn't like the gleam in Boromir's eyes.  It reminded him of Gandalf the Blue when he'd had a few too many ales.

"I said give me the ring!"  Boromir drew his sword.  Frodo used his invisibility.  Aragorn ran up and asked what was going on, slamming into Frodo and knocking him down so hard the wind was knocked out of him.  then Sam stumbled over him and stepped on his tender parts.  Too late, Frodo realized how dangerous it was to be invisible.

Boromir ran off mistakenly thinking Frodo had gone that way and the others followed, except Sam who had landed atop Frodo.  "They're gone Mr. Frodo" Sam said at last.

"uhhhhhh" replied Frodo.

"Good, I think we should be going too."  And Sam slung Frodo over his shoulder and slipped away.

Aragorn had the party split up to find the missing Hobbits.  Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas went one way, and  Boromir, Pippin and Merry went another where they ran smack dab into a group called the Cut Throats.  They controlled High Llama Pass.

"What kind of creatures are you?"  They asked Merry

"We're Hobbits." said Merry.  Pippin gave him a sharp jab in the ribs.

"There are no Hobbits in Glorantha." The leader of the Cut Throats spat as if saying the word left a foul taste..

"We're hairless dwarves." replied Pippin.

"Well, it'll cost ya to cross our Pass. "The leader of the Cut Throats said.  "We'll take your two hairless dwarves."

"Deal." said Boromir.  They shook on it and the knight of Loskalm went his way and was never seen again.

On her way to the Wizard of Sog, Dorothy comes across a Jack O'Bear disguised as a scarecrow, a Tin Dwarf and a cowardly Basmoli who is very far from home.  When she tells them where she's going, the Tin Dwarf casts a knowing eye at the Basmoli and the Scarecrow, but the Jack O'Bear plays dumb and the Basmoli IS dumb so sighing, he trudges along after them.

Meanwhile, Frodo and Company decide to avoid the Kingdom of War altogether and head for the Nidan Mountains.  When they learn the entrance is called the Brass Citadel, they fear it's related to the City of Brass and head east instead.  Eventually, they come to High Llama Pass and Bad Deal but Gandalf appears.

"Running away?" He glares at them.

"Why, uh, no." Frodo replies.  Pippin quickly steps up.  "Isn't this the way to Lord Death on a Horse?"

"You know full well it isn't Master Pippin." Gandalf snarls.  The Brithini starts to prepare his Tap spell.

"Hey! Aren't you the a**hat who stole our secret to gunpowder?" shouts a dwarf.  "Get him!"  A huge Jolanti suddenly appears.

"Well, that's just craptastic!" Gandalf groans.  He casts a baleful glance at Frodo, "I'll deal with you later.  Now fly you fools!"

"Uh, we're not with him." Pippin shouts to the dwarves.  "In fact, we're Hobbits trying to make our way south."

"Yer what?" replies a mean looking dwarf encased in iron and carrying a long tube.

"Hobbits." Pippin replies.

"There are no Hobbits in Glorantha." the Iron dwarf spits on the ground as if speaking the word was distasteful.

"You're right," Frodo suddenly steps forward.  "We are not Hobbits.  We're dwarves, like you.  The wizard over there" Frodo motions to Gandalf who was shouting ultimatums at the Jolanti which the creature was gleefully ignoring, "he shaved off all our body hair."  then Frodo whispered, "And he did things to us."  He eyed the dwarf knowingly.

"Why that sick - " the dwarf was outraged," TAKE THAT ONE ALIVE!"  He motioned to Frodo and his friends.  "you can go on through.  And good luck to ye."

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Those aren't halflings. I believe the representatives of the Lollypop Guild would be very distraught by that characteristic.

Those guys are completely different family in Halkomelem.  The Munchkin Clan.  They send off Dorothy, an underaged Vingan, to kill the evil witch Ezdene, by tossing a bucket of water from the Janube upon her..  First, however, they tell her to go to the City of Brass to see the Wizard and get the water blessed.  They get paid good gold sending underaged girls to this wizard (hence the term Lollypop Guild), so they call it the yellowbrick road. 

Never mind what happens behind that curtain.

So I'm dinking around in the Guide to Glorantha and what should I stumble upon?

Quote

Halkomelem (small city): The natives of this small town are never more than four feet tall (and usually less), the result of their ancestors being Tapped by their Brithini overlords some
generations ago. Despite, or perhaps because of, their cursed stature, the Halkomelemites are devotedly servile to the Brithini and always dress in extremely garish blue clothes. They
are governed by various guilds that perform esoteric services for the Brithini.

Halflings in Glorantha?  HOBBITS?!?!

Imagine coming home to your two labradors named Jeff and Greg and finding they'd pooped on your new carpet.

"What's this?  What did you do?  WHAT'S THIS?"

You dumped Hobbits in Glorantha?

So of course I intend to have great fun with this

Our players:  halflings from Halkomelem, smack dab on the border with the Kingdom of War.  Oh goodie! 

Their patron:  A Brithini named Gandalf.  I know what you're thinking.  THAT Gandalf?  Yep, the same Gandalf who came into Halkomelem generations ago and tapped all the hobbits ancestors into their current cursed existence.  This a**hat Gandalf guy is such a douche that he even has the audacity to treat the hobbits like they're his good friends.  He comes around on occasion to set off fireworks, the secret of which he stole from the dwarves in the god time.  And these poor hobbits, suffering as they are from Stockholm Syndrome, will do anything to be his friend.  They'll even go on adventures for him.

Which brings us to our tale.  A group of victimized hobbits, Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry, are sent by the abusive and amoral Gandalf, on a dangerous quest to defeat Lord Death on a Horse.  First off, Gandalf gives Frodo a magical ring.

"What does it do?" asks Frodo.  "Do I throw it in a volcano to destroy Lord Death on a Horse?"

"No, you twit!" replies Gandalf, "If it were that easy I'd have just stayed in the City of Brass.  You think I'd travel all the way out here to see you little shits just to give you a ring to destroy that I could have done at home?"

"Oh, of course not," Frodo bows his head in shame.  "I'm sorry I'm such a dumbass.  I'll try to be smarter.  What do I do with this ring?"

"Why you wear it, of course."  seeing Frodo's look of consternation, Gandalf explains, "it will make you invisible so you can sneak past the enemy and right up to Lord Death on a Horse."

"What then?" Frodo asks, tugging on the ring which he notices won't come off.

"My, you're a very perceptive little fellow aren't you?" Gandalf pats the hobbit on the head.  "At that point I'll tap the crap out of you till you're the size of a little flea.  Then you'll climb up upon Lord Death on a Horse until you reach his ear.  Then you'll crawl inside, I'll turn you into a zombie and you'll eat his brains!"  Gandalf smiled and patted Frodo on the head again.  "Now run along.  The fate of all Glorantha rests on your shoulders."

Later that day, as Frodo and his freinds set off for the Kingdom of War, Frodo turns to Sam.  "Sam, if we ever get anywhere's near Lord Death on a Horse, promise me one thing." 

"Certainly dear Frodo."

"Bite off my damned ring finger!"

3 hours ago, Evilroddy said:

Brilliant analysis Pentallion! Machiavellian metaphysics and mysticism in the service of radical social engineering, but to what end.? Defence of Loskalm or something much bigger? A two-track scheme worthy of the most arcane Brithini zzaburi! I like it, hell, I love it. I'm stealing it! Thank you. Spring boarding off your amazing insight, do you think it possible that the infinitely patient Brithini could have been behind it, subtly influencing Snodal and Siglat from afar and operating below the Hrestoli's radar? Have they been orchestrating this all along to force a second confrontation with Nysalor/Gbaji after Arkat stumbled and failed to eliminate this catalyst of cataclysms? This is definitely cool speculation! I'm all jazzed up now!

Cheers and good gaming.

Evilroddy.

 

Brithini always seem so boring and detached.  Maybe they had a hand in it, but I hardly think the destruction of Loskalm was of any concern to them.  Feels more like Snodal was caught up in something bigger.  Zzabur perhaps?  I'd say Arachne Solara, but him being an atheist and all, needs a sorcerous explanation. 

The perfection of their golden era obviously wasn't the point of Snodal's Ban.  He was buying time.  But it wasn't time to defeat the Kingdom of War, because the Kingdom of War was a result of the Ban, not the inevitability he was trying to avoid.  When the Lunars sweep across Fronela, destroying all who stand in their path, we know the Loskalmi are not destroyed.  Defeated perhaps, but not destroyed because in the end, Argrath calls upon the dragon of the west wind who comes to destroy the Moon.

So Snodal's Ban strengthens Loskalm because of the perfection it gives them.  The perfection wanes after the Ban is lifted, but three generations of living within it is enough.  The Loskalmi are prepared now to face the coming storm.  All they need is an enemy to harden them.  The Kingdom of War was most likely a feature, not a bug, of the Syndic's Ban.