metcalph
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Posts posted by metcalph
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2 hours ago, Evilroddy said:
Metcalph:
The Yezidis are a good parallel qualitatively but I caution that there is an order of magnitude greater Yezidi population (950,000-1,500,000) than the 100,000 Esvulari given by Jeff on the previous page. Thus a quantitative parity does not exist. Indeed, there are about 100,000 Yezidis living in Germany and I wonder if they will maintain their religious and cultural identity and traditions in the next 500 years or so.
That's their current population in a world of seven billion. How large would their population have been in the age of the Ottomans, Ilkhanate, Abbasids etc.? My point is not that they will maintain their unchanged traditions within the next 500 years (I really don't know) that they have maintained their traditions for over 500 years* and thus it's not unreasonable that the Esvulari could do also. I only mentioned the Yazidis as opposed to the Parsees, the Druze and the Sabaens was that they had two endogamous castes similar to that which you were worried would unviable among the Esvulari. I am quite happy to agree that the Esvulari would have been on the lower bounds of the necessary population to maintain cultural continuity.
*Strictly speaking they would say something like 2000 years but I'm wise in the way of back-dating traditions to realise that the current traditions could have come into being significantly later than than.
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1 minute ago, Joerg said:
As an originally Zzaburite rather than Hrestoli group, their first encounter with men-of-all may well have been Arkat's Seshnegi companions. At that time, they had to pay both the Kitori and the Hendriki tributes.
All Malkioni populations are originally Zzaburite. As for the Hrestoli, the Aeolians could have encountered them any time within the past 375 years before the Sunstop due to naval contact with the Seshnegi and the Slontans via the Waertagi. The relevance of the tribute to this particular point escapes me.
1 minute ago, Joerg said:RQ Companion and Genertela Book suggested that the Heortlanders named their mounted thanes knights, which translates as "men-of-all" in New Canonical.
A small sidebar here: I'm not really interested these days in nailing down precise reconciliations of the old material with the new canon as I am of the view there are multiple ways in which such harmony can be achieved and that it's all largely a matter of individual taste. So I don't think the above suggestion is really necessary to explaining why the Esvulari have no warrior caste.
Secondly the explanations I posted were suggestions which *deliberately* *contradicted* each other. I didn't have a care in the world which ones people liked the best (Okay I do, a little bit). I care even less about technical analysis of their relevant merits. What I would have been most interested in reading was similarly veined explanations/short-and-sweet mythlets about why the Esvulari have no warrior caste rather than a learned digression on the political theatre which is simultaneously well-known, debatable in many places and avoids providing decent suggestions.
And on the subject of the Spell Forbidden By Urostio could have been cast against:
QuoteAgainst which foe? The New Unity Army? The Zistorites? The Chaos eruption? Against the Hendriki victorious in the Adjustment Wars?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say All Of Them. Perhaps they cast the spell multiple times and the loss of the warrior caste is the result of their abuses?
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2 minutes ago, Joerg said:
Right. When would you think this deviation from the Ingareen way of Malkionism occurred? I have to admit that I was looking at more than the Aeolians of Heortland when typing this stuff.
Any number of reasons spring to mind. A data point to consider is that the Esvulari do not also have Men-of-All yet are pretty good transmitters of God Learner governmental practices.
1) The Esvulari see the Men-of-All as evil and responsible for the abuses of the Cosmos that led to the calamities at the end of the Imperial Age. Thus they have no men-of-all and by extension a warrior caste to cleanse them of evil. The commoners took up arms later when it was found that fighting was still required.
2) The Esvulari Noble Caste is actually extinct (eaten in the Dragonkill) and that the so-called Noble Caste are actaully warriors. For ceremonial purposes in their magic, the Esvulari acknowledge the Talar of God Forgot as their lawful sovereign (who in return may not even know).
3) At the end of the Imperial Age to save his people, a desperate Esvulari wizard got his hands on the Spell Forbidden by Urostio and cast it. It didn't have the desired effect but it did magically abolish the caste differences between the warriors and the farmers to such an extent that even magic spells to detect caste cannot see any difference. Over time, they've similar stopped caring about trying to observe the differences.
Any one of these or similar to these or even in the same vein would work.
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8 hours ago, Joerg said:
I think that the problem of how to maintain the "thane class" castes mainly can get addressed by giving them less prestigious but still caste relevant roles to fulfill. Nobody seems to worry about the most attrition-prone caste, the warriors - probably because mobility into this caste is seen as the least disruptive to social order?
The Esvulari do not have a warrior caste according to Jeff.
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10 hours ago, Evilroddy said:
As to the caste system and endogamy, I have a concern. My position is based on the presumption that the caste system is a pyramid-shaped hierarchy with many at the base and few at the apex. If my presumption is wrong than please ignore my concern which follows. In such a small population how can a very small noble/Talar caste maintain its existence given the vicissitudes of living through hundreds of years of a world as lethal as Glorantha?
There are 75,000 or Esvulari in the South Province of Heortland and 15,000 elsewhere in Heortland. There are Esvulari elsewhere in the ports of Kethaela but no numbers given for them (History of the Heortling Peoples p86). There's several ways in which we could resolve the problems of endogamy.
1) Looking at real world example, the unfortunate Yazidis. Their population is of similar size to the Esvulari and they practice endogamy. Furthermore the Yazidis have three endogamous castes; the Sheikhs, the Pir (Elders) and the Murids (Commoners). So the set-up is possible.
2) The Esvulari may have practised Caste Endogamy as a reaction to the abuses of the God Learners. That whittles the lengthy time period from 1600 years to 500 years.
3) I feel that the smaller castes number between 5-10% of the population each. Most people in the Noble and Priestly caste are not actually nobles or priests but people eligible to serve as nobles or priests. Apart from practicing their caste taboos, most of them live lives only barely distinguishable from the commoners.
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4 hours ago, Evilroddy said:
If Aeolian culture in the Heortlands is just an Orlanthi culture with a Church and a magical elite laminated on top of it, then what role does the Aeolian Church play in Esvulari society?
IMO the Aeolians are not a church. A much better way of putting it might be, instead of having worshippers of Lhankor Mhy advising everybody else, the Aeolians have wizards who believe in the Invisible God, view other gods as emanations thereoff etc. etc. Most people are ordinary Orlanthi with rune magics and spirits whereas a significant view among the rulers would have more spell knowledge than say their Sartarite counterparts.
Socially the Aeolians would organize themselves alongside the God Learner system of government (which Belintar stole from them). Instead of the clan ring, they have a clan noble who is advised by officials from among the following fields (Governing, Army, Navy, Religion, Trade, Sorcery and Treasure). Some of these officials would be appointed by the clan noble, others would be appointed by whomever the clan noble serves and so on. Officials supposedly work collegially but under a weak clan noble, they could work independently. And sometimes some officials may just merely be collecting taxes for a particular function and sending it elsewhere (ie the Navy Official collects Ship Money from the inland clans).
4 hours ago, Evilroddy said:Is it just a collection of churches and small colleges serving the upper most strata of Esvulari society or does it have real day-to-day connections with the whole Esvulari population?
I would say about as much connection as the average Lhankoring has. Every clan would have a wizard who would serve as the Clan Sorceror. Ideally the Governing Official (in charge of civilian affairs) and the Religion Official (in charge of the worship of the Gods) would both be wizards but many clans would be too poor or backward to attract a wizard for these positions. Instead the position might fall to some-one with sufficient spell knowledge to discharge the day to day duties of the position (and beg for help from the God-King's bureacracy when things get really bad) or they could be even more backward and hand it to a Lhankoring.
4 hours ago, Evilroddy said:Are Esvulari peasants and craftsmen more likely to have stronger ties to pagan cults and rites but wizards less? Does the Aeolian Church struggle to keep the rank and file in the fold or does it allow its adherents to explore pagan, Brithini and now Rokari beliefs and rites?
Is there an Aeolian body of orthodoxy with authority to keep the faith and is there some sort of an 'inquisition' or cannonical authority which can use coercion to protect the faith? Are the wizard class/caste mostly connected to and part of the Church hierarchy or are there many free mages who while being nominally Aeolian are mostly involved with the temporal world and their own pursuits?
There is no Aeolian Church but rather a group of philosophers who believe in the Gods as emanations of the Invisible God and thereby worthy of worship. They spend most of their time studying the Gods because they are the most prominent manifestations of the Invisible God. Many will take governmental duties in order to earn a living. An esvulari wizard could decide to study something other than the Gods (e.g.. dream magic, alchemy, draconism) without sanction from other wizards but they would be considered to wasting their knowledge in pursuing foolish distractions and not the visible truths.
4 hours ago, Evilroddy said:How does the Aeolian Church reconcile the use of sorcery with the traditional Orlanthi suspicion/out-right hatred of sorcery? Why hasn't Esvulari society been ripped apart or assailed from outside by Meldek feuds and wars? Presumably cynical pagan leaders have tried to whip up sorcery-based bugbears to weaken Aeolian power and to further their own pagan interests? I'm sure the God-king's governors try to tamp this down but it would seem to me that sectarian violence would be an issue despite the governors' best efforts.
The Aeolians are not traditional Orlanthi. They are brought up with the idea that spell-knowledge is good knowledge. They may consider it too hard for them to understand but they would not consider an Aeolian wizard to be evil. Even the priests and devotees among the Aeolians will have normally have no objection to spell-knowledge.
4 hours ago, Evilroddy said:Does the Aeolian Church try to enforce the old caste system of the Brithini (and presumably the Ingareen God Forgotten) or do they have a community without caste distinctions like the Orlanthi? If the latter is true, then who can become an Aeolian adept of magic and who is barred from such pursuits?
Jeff has already answered this earlier in the thread a few months back.
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Looking good for me.
Minor typo on p105 - Broyan's runes are given in plain text.
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6 hours ago, Joerg said:
What is the evidence for the Ingareens to have been part of the Expulsion Walk? According to the mythical maps in the Guide, the city of New Malkonwal was situated at the western shore of (then inland) Faralinthor Sea, which translates roughly to somewhere in the Solkathi Sea south of Tarinwood. There is no evidence that Malkion walked all the way to Kethaela, despite possible claims that New Malkonwal is in the place of original Malkonwal.
There are no other Malkioni in the vicinity of Kethaela are there? New Malkonwal is the closest mythical settlement of Malkioni to either Slontos or God Forgot. All that's needed is for Malkion settlers to settle either side of the Faralinthor Sea from New Malkonwal and you have the Storm Age origins of Slontos and God Forgot.
6 hours ago, Joerg said:I used to think of the Ingareens as one of the colonies dropped by Waertagi ships - possibly during the Ice Age, or after the Great Blast. The presence of Sog's Ruins just east of God Forgot, and Waertagi drydocks in Nochet, does suggest that the Waertagi used to visit the region.
Except there's no Waertagi drydock around God Forgot and there's no Brithini population around Sog's Ruins. And Sog's Ruins dates from the Flood rather than the Great Blast or the Ice Age. There
6 hours ago, Joerg said:I think there was a split between the Leftarm Islanders and the mainland Esvulari earlier on. Refuge in the Bandori Valley remained a place of contact. Refuge is mentioned in the Malkioni document on Aeolianism in HotHP p.82. This document doesn't mention either Esvulari or Ingareens, but mentions their expansion into Kethaela. (A Nochet presence is likely older than this expansion, which does manifest in the city of Leskos, for instance. See GtG p.255 and the write-up of the Slontos wars.) It does suggest that the Aeolians are different from the immortal rulers of Refuge, though. The Guide entry on Refuge says that the immortal rulers of Refuge _are_ Brithini.
So? I said they became Brithini *after* the destruction of the Machine City. All the sources you quote show at best was that there was population movement into Esvular and says nothing about their faith.
6 hours ago, Joerg said:There is an obvious problem with the Seven Phases bit: the Red Moon of Rufelza is the first lunar body to exhibit these seven phases. And at the time of the Clanking City Sedenya still was stuck in the invisible blue Orogeria manifestation, the fifth or sixth in the Lunar sequence, depending on whether you count Nysalora as a separate phase. (Natha had always been around since the age of Gartemirus, and was not yet a Rufelza avatar.)
Who said the phases had to be visible on the Moon. Look at the Water Corkscrew (A core part of Zistorite philosophy as KoS p80 tells us). The phases are the representation of the Water (allegorically the soul) as it passes through the Corkscrew travelling from a lower level to a higher one. No need for any silly celestial observations. That modern Lunars chose to interpret diagrams of corkscrew water levels as lunar phases is yet another example of Lunars seeing their goddess in everything regardless of whether it actually was.
6 hours ago, Joerg said:I think that Belintar encountered it on his journeys to the magical version of the Holy Country, where it manifests as three mountains dedicated to the white, blue and red moon.
Leaving aside the canon status of anything in Arcane Lore, why would the Moon be there? And would would the supposedly ultraconservative Brithini choose to associate themselves with the Moon?
6 hours ago, Joerg said:The Lunars weren't around at the time the Zistorites came to God Forgot in order to exploit the imbalance in "the World is made of everything" that was locally in favor of materialist magics, to an extent that magical swords lost their magic when leaving the region.
Where is the reference for magical swords losing their magic when taking out of God Forgot? And the first part of your statement has several implicit assumptions that you have yet to substantiate (such as the ZIstorites were in it for materialistic purposes - Their philosophy as described in the Middle Sea Empire was to elevate the material world into a more spiritual state).
Anyway I must leave here. Have bought the Coming Storm to read.
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6 hours ago, Joerg said:
The Guide p.711 makes it quite clear that they started out as Malkioni using the Brithini caste system. The historical maps in the Guide show Ingareens up to 700 ST, then they show Esvulari on and off in southern Heortland.
*All* Malkioni were using the Brithini caste system at the Dawn! The Ingareens are not Brithini being descendents of thos who travelled with Malkion on the Expulsion Walk. As for the Historical Maps, all that it shows is that some Ingareens were living under Heortling rule circa 700 ST. It does not imply that a split has taken place.
6 hours ago, Joerg said:The Purification Rune business isn't that well documented - the two pages in Middle Sea Empire aren't quite conclusive, and the epilogue there claims that the rune had no real meaning.
So where did the God Forgotten get the Moon Rune from? You know the one that appears among the parts of the Holy Country sent by Belintar against Harrek in the Prince of Sartar Webzine? And the very purpose of the Purification Rune is remarkably close to what the Lunars claim for the Moon Rune.
6 hours ago, Joerg said:The wand of the seven phases of the moon is claimed to have been found in the Machine Ruins, but the text doesn't confirm its origin there, and provides the alternative of a Lunar quester having lost that item. Given that it has come to Raus as a heirloom, it must have come to Kostaddi some time after Tarsh first became Lunar (1490). The wand's description makes it clear that it consists of seven runes, not a single one. How is this tied to Purification?
p46 of the PDF, "Yet the Abiding Book said, "The Purpose of Life is to be closer to God." No rune itself addressed the power that reversed the process of Devolution. Malkion the Sacrifice had stopped it and infused Creation with a Divine Spark but not yet released was the New Rune to follow. "It is through Purification that the New World will be made," he declared.
The seven runes of the wand are the Seven Phases of the Red Moon in which one goes through darkness in order to become closer to God/the All whatever. There is nothing there that is alien to God Learner or Zistorite thought.
6 hours ago, Joerg said:Moon has a known presence in that Otherworld Holy Country mapped in Arcane Lore, and its connection to God Forgot is clearly shown in the Prince of Sartar comic. The moon also has the meaning of Balance. Again, why Purification?
How did the Moon Rune get to the Holy Country then? And why the attempt to deny that the Lunar use the Moon Rune for enlightenment rather than balance?
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6 hours ago, Joerg said:
There is little doubt that Aeolianism is a fusion of Ingareen sorcery and Theyalan theism, The Ingareens stayed clear of the Orlanthi influence, while the Esvulari adopted it. They were part of the Kingdom of Night, probably already back in the Silver Age. In the Guide, Jon Barat is listed as the Dawn survival site of the Ingareens, no mention of Esvulari. This points to early Dawn Age as the formation of the Esvulari tribe and their discovery of Aeolianism.
The ingareens adopted Orlanthi ways just like the Esvulari did. They then adopted God Learner ways and ended up in a horrible place. So they adopted Brithini ways as they no longer had any dreams.
There is an important difference between the Brithini of Arolanit and the God Forgottens. The God Forgottens are still attached to the Purification Rune (as per the Middle Sea Empire and also the Holy Country chapter of Prince of Sartar graphic novel) which looks like a Moon Rune (hinted as long ago as Pavis: Threshold to Danger whence the Wand of the Seven Phases of the Moon comes from the Machine City). They don't use it to master chaos but they do use it to purify themselves to draw closer to the God who has forgotten them.
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7 hours ago, Evilroddy said:
So can Aeolian magic users have access to spirit magic, pagan divine magic and sorcery spells all at the same time? Or are there boundaries which constrain practioners of the Aeolian rites and way? If Aeolian worship is a hybrid of Brithini aetheism and pagan deism, does it predate the rise of the Rokari sect within Malkionism? How long has the Aeolian rite existed and what are its geographical and 'mythographical' origins? Was it born in the southern Heortlands or imported from abroad and simply fused two local and pre-existing faiths together to arrive at its present-day form?
I think it best to state it this way:
Aeolians are Orlanthi. They look hear smell and otherwise talk like Orlanthi. Where they differ is that they support a school of wizards. These wizards make special claims about the Cosmos that very few non-wizards can understand. The Aeolians do not believe in these special claims but they do believe in the Wizards. Wizard knowledge is similar to knowledge of heart surgery or quantum mechanics - something which most folks don't understand but they sure are grateful to the wizards for mastering this knowledge.
Although the Aeolians came from the region of God Forgot, God Forgot only adopted Brithini ways after the fall of the Machine City (and the resulting spiritual catastrophe). Thus the Aeolians of Esvular are closer to the original Aeolians (the Intagreens of Jon Barat) than the current God Forgottens.
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The Borderlands is dated 1615 (Pavis:Gateway to Adventure p45) as Raus has just arrived.
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"Karallan's Plight" in the Report on the Orlanthi, KoS p212 (PDF). Will also be in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes.
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Just now, Ali the Helering said:
I didn't suggest that it could be safely ignored, simply that it couldn't be relied on. To me, that seems the cheap option. The reason for the gap would probably be wilful ignorance on a vast level, promoted by the native Elmali to diminish the majesty of Yelmalio.
Monrogh isn't an Elmali and knows Firespeech. How is he going to mistranslate it? I do feel that plain ignorance as a reason for mistranslation is just uninspired. Why are the Elmali promoting such a mistranslation given that they barely know who Tharkantus is at all (he fought against the EWF and Monrogh's speaking at least five hundred years later). What would your preferred translation be? What type of magics do you think Tharkantus provides compared to Yelmalio or Daysenerus? These are more productive avenues for speculation than just a simple naysaying of the source.
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RuneQuest Companion had an article about them. They originated on the Spike. They are found in Peloria, Fronela and Ralios. The Unicorn Riders do not eat their steeds. They are believed to be immortal. They are solitary and essentially ignore each other apart from their sons. They have no native language and are often incapable of speech. Forest unicorns sometimes speak Aldryami. They repoduce with female mares and does (no idea whether this applies to all creatures on the wastes such as a Bison or a Rhino). Unicorns can become Shamans.
In the Guide, Hwarin Dalthippa rides on one. There's a tribe of unicorn riders worshipping Yelorna near the Sun Dome Temple in Ralios. There's a unicorn king in Huntswood near the Fronelan Forest of Erontree. Ralzakark is the Unicorn Emperor.
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19 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:
Indeed it is, but that is a Theyalan explanation of a word in another language, and history and literature show us just how inaccurate they can be.
Not "that is" but "that could be". Since Monrogh required knowledge of Firespeech, I find the chances of a mistranslation remote. Furthermore suggesting that something is mistranslated and so can be safely ignored seems to be to be a rather cheap way out. If there is to be a gap between the translation and the actual meaning, it would be more productive to explain why.
19 minutes ago, Ali the Helering said:For example, the Biblical use of the by no means unique story of a hero pulled from a rush boat on a river to justify the Hebrew understanding of Moses as 'pulled out', rather than the standard Mizratic (Ancient Egyptian) meaning 'Son of'.
In the specific cases of Moses, the writers knoew Egyptian (next door) but they were keen on denying his Egyptian identity so as to put forward a spurious origin for his name (similar minded reformers destroyed Moses' bronze snakes for the same reason).
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2 hours ago, Tindalos said:
Tharkantus: Th seems to mean spirit or being, as seen in Yuth (Imperial Spirit, or god), the various -gatha names (probably gat-th-a, or spirit home/avatar), and the four Overseers. Specifically the four Overseers include it within the syllable "Arth", meaning overseer (or tutelary deity), which is found reversed here. Th-ar likely has the same or a similar meaning, regarding his role as a guardian of the Sun Domes. I am unsure over the meaning of Kan, although it is also the same as Ken in several other names, as well as Kan.
It's translated as the Empty Saving Hearth according to History of the Heortling Peoples p108
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Quote
The horse section in Anaxial's Roster that basically is a reproduction of an earlier 12 page essay on horses in Glorantha gives the sered horse as the standard horse of northeastern Glorantha, and tells about a conflict between the sered people and the Pure Horse people.
I should caution once again that although the horse information is quite Greggly in origin, since it has not re-appeared in the New Canon, it like Lives of Sedenya, Shreds of Light and Reason should assumed to be postcanonical.
QuoteNeither do the Galanini horses of Ralios and further east, also quite familiar to western wizards. These are Hykimi (Hsunchen) animals, born from Galanin the horse father, possibly a son of Ehilm the Sun God of Ralios and Mikyh the Beast Mother of the Hykimi.
They would be postcanonical if the people who tended them were actually Hsunchen. But the Galanini were Orlanthi.
QuotePeter calls the Pentans with their non-Hippoi horses (or their riders/charioteers) Gamatae, using at least part of Gamara's name.
Gamatae or Gametae comes from the Glorious ReAscent footnote 120 p37 (most recent edition).
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6 hours ago, M Helsdon said:
According to Monrogh of Sartar, a dubious source, Sereventh in Sylila was the only temple to Daysenerus to survive the destruction of the Bright Empire. P:GtA
Actually this (and a further quote) is from History of the Heortling Peoples p108. And before calling Monrogh a dubious source, it's kind of important to show that he actually is dubious.
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43 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:
And that's an example of the doubtful use of iconography to derive mythological attributes, and vice versa. It simply isn't possible to fix the Gods Wall to any specific period; it isn't even certain as to which god is represented as the emperor, especially as it apparently shows Yelm as a pile of dust.
It doesn't show Yelm as a pile of dust, Plentonius writes that pile of dust on the wall is a portion of Yelm and ascribes the apparent contradiction to Yelm's foresight. That's a big difference. If you look at the Entekosiad, you see a reference to the Ash Man whose description is a much better fit than what Plentonius says.
So while Plentonius' description of what the God Walls can and should be challenged, it does not follow that we cannot put the Gods Wall down to any specific period. It shows an Emperor receiving worship from the Gods of Five Peoples (four of whom are shown wearing dress corresponding to Rinliddi, Zarkos, Darsen and Suvaria). The Emperor is seated on a dais held up by a women crowned with a city. That shows that cities were important in his empire. Among the Gods is Oslira the River Goddess and the ten sons and workers who helped Lodril in taming the river. That shows that the river had been tamed and was being used for agriculture. All this and more places the Gods Wall as being constructed within the Late Golden Age.
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Just now, M Helsdon said:
I suspect that many of the identifications on the Gods Wall are suspect, as is its age. All that is really known is that it is from the God Time, before Time.
The iconography is closer to the original practice rather than the GRAY text which was compiled in the Dawn Age. Given that there's been little change in the appearance of many gods (Doburdon was identified as being on the weall through his iconography although Plentonius appears not to have known him, the similarity of contemporary iconography of the Gods with their Gods Wall appearance would be a fairly strong piece of evidence.
Just now, M Helsdon said:As Avivorus was active before Time, the sequence of events is debatable. The Dara Happan chronology is suspect because of its use of its 'perfect' 'poetic' numbers, such as 100,000.
The Dara Happan chronology parallels the Orlanthi (Fire Tribe/Storm Tribe etc) and also the Vithelans, Malkioni and Doraddi. You can assert the the precise datings are bogus but to say that one event really happened in a different era requires far stronger evidence. Compounded that with Avivorus using a Sunspear where Hastatus is shown as using a more mundane spear, I doubt that the identification of the two as the same god is tenable.
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1 hour ago, soltakss said:
From this, I assume that some cultists of Yelm the Rider ride flying beasts, but most probably ride horses. Very few ride griffins. I suppose hippogriffs are possible, but they are very rare. I cannot see Yelm cultists ridging draconic creatures or Sky Bulls, Pegasi are not common in Glorantha, so what other beasts can they ride?
Wyrm Footprints IMO is so old that some of the more high fantasy elements were included in many cult descriptions without much forethought. Looking at the Wall and the Glorious ReAscent, there's little sign of anybody riding any griffins or other flying creatures in Dara Happan mythology. As a result, the cult of Yelm the Rider has become toned down into a more pedestrian age occupation among the Pentans (Dastal the Hunter) and that there is no tradition of riding flying creatures in Dara Happa (that's not to say there are more modern practices but they would not originate with Yelm).
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1 hour ago, M Helsdon said:
Dawn Age: Antirius - not certain, but based on architecture GtG; Avivorus who seems to be an avatar of Antirius becomes Hastatus, the Spear God TGRoY.
That's incorrect (although it is what Plentonius claims). Hastatus appears on the Gods Wall which means he was worshiped as a God in the Golden Age. Avivorus wields the Sunspear against Emperor Orogoros in the Storm Age.
Ergo Hastatus and his Spear preceded Avivorus and his Sunspear by a thousand years. In HQ terms, Avivorus would teach the Sunsear Feat while Hastatus would have an affinity involving general spear combat (but I don't think this extends to pike and shield combat since it was unknown when he was worshiped).
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7 hours ago, Joerg said:
Anaxial's Roster mentions the Ten False Steeds fought by the Sered horses after their fight against the Hyal (descendants of Hippoi, which would have come with Hyalor, right?) and were conquered by Hyalor. Who would those false steeds be?
Anaxial's Roster is hardly canonical, especially the one liner mythlets contained in the creature descriptions.
You would be on much stronger ground citing KoS p165 "The Animal Nomads and the horse nomads had been feuding since before the beginning
of Time. Both [Pentans and Praxians - PHM] claimed they were the chosen children of Genert, the dead god whose land was wasted."
Illumination in the Lunar Empire.
in Glorantha
Posted
It's widely proclaimed to be a stage of salvation on the Lunar Way. Look at the cults of the Seven Mothers in Pavis: Gateway to Adventure or HeroQuest: Glorantha. There's two steps to becoming a Lunar. The first is the acquisition of the Moon Rune, The second is becoming Sevened which is Illumination.
There is really no such thing as a devotee of the Seven Mothers. There are the Seveneds/Illuminates. Becoming Sevened is done through the Sevening Rites (although the Nysaloran Riddles taught by the Order of Day are also used).
There are Naturals, according to the Entekosaid, people who are illuminated without outside intervention. It's also possible for someone to become illuminated through a powerful psychic event (although I have to doubt that being captured by Broos and being forced to listen to riddles would work).
Lunar Examiners and many illuminates can relaibly detect the Illuminated.
They can't detect Occlusion. They can only infer a person is occluded based on what he does.