Ali the Helering

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

I'm not interested in debating the nature of abusrdity.  I am simply stating as a blunt fact that the idea of significant Thanatari worship in Carmania and that a Thanatari priest could travel from Carmania to Prax is deranged nonsense considering that Thanatar is one of the few chaotic cults the Lunars would quite happily wipe out.  If the priest had been one of Vivamort, Krarsht or Cacodemon then it would be plausible but not Thanatar.

I beg leave to disagree.  Stealing the powers of an enemy by comparison with fostering a cult of bureaucratic corruption?  Krarsht loses every time.

In fact, musing about it further, I could easily rationalize a state supported cult of Thanatari assassins.

28 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Shadow on the Borderlands did say such things but a) it is no longer canon and b) more importantly the level of Thanatari worship it suggests in such places is absurd.

 

I think it fair to say that in a place as varied and magical as Glorantha, the definition of 'absurd' is very subjective.

The ecology of a powerfully magical society is very much open to interpretation.

YGWV.

During this time of Lent it strikes me as needlessly Trinitarian😇

16 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

I wouldn't use the term "naturally" here, necessarily, since I don't see the lactase-preservation mutation as being "unnatural", just more recent.

But that aside, you make a good point. I think @RHW  puts it fairly well.

Yeah, this was just an opportunity for me to moan, really.  I think that making these RW/Gloranthan differentiations don't help anyone.

16 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

It should also be noted that genetic lactose intolerance isn't necessarily an obstacle to keeping cattle and making dairy products. Most people on the Indian Subcontinent are lactose intolerant, for example, but they still consume a large amount of lactose products. Some of these, like ghee, are naturally lactose reduced. I didn't see a whole lot of actual milk-drinking while I was there - mostly cheeses and butter.

Since in another thread we are assured that Gloranthan herd beasts are not identical with their RW counterparts, can't we assume that humans are likewise different, and not naturally lactose intolerant?

Come to think of it, does Gloranthan cow milk contain lactose?

When you start down the 'non-identical' track, there is no logical stopping point.

28 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Ar there any broad cultures, or castes/classes that tend towards vegetarianism? I'm not necessarily talking about a Pelorian peasant whose diet is 90% rice, but more in terms of ideology.

 

Aldryami

And very nice German reds, which are often best served chilled!

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

This kind of thing is all over the place. Same with the Grazer creation myth (which is interesting because it's factually incorrect, but that doesn't make it any less mythically true).  

 

That is, of course, the basic nature of myth - fact is irrelevant, it is the truth that matters!

7 minutes ago, The God Learner said:

Does it count as myth if it happened after Dawn?

I seem to recall an old description of the Battle of Night and Day that the Compromise was broken, but I can't recall the details offhand. Time is an interesting thing in Glorantha.

The Compromise was broken by the revelation of Dayserenus, then that of Kyger Litor, and then Nysalor.  I am using myth in the broad sense, here.  I don't see why the Dawn would be liminal for myths, though; people still tell stories!

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Traumatic experiences have a way of recurring that is hard to block. Whether those memories remain unchanged, and whether the heroquesting efforts so far influenced that timeless moment, I cannot say, but a mistress race ancestress will surely remember that burning in their collective wombs.

Indeed, and the agony will reinforce the personal and partial memories, increasing divergence rather than unity.

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Mistress Race trolls will know the truth, but after a 1000+ years from the event, I think most others would conflate the two.

It all depends on how good you think their VERY long term memory is.  As organic beings they are neither inexhaustible nor inerrant.  For accuracy, go to the Mostali.

18 minutes ago, metcalph said:

From the presence of Dara Happa on Horse, I think these are meant to be reactionary Dara Happans who have taken to riding on horseback in imitation of their Pentan masters.  They could survive as another bandit god in the north but they would have stiff competition from the Kashis.

I doubt that they would fit being 'lit', rather I imagine an alternative solar pantheon to that foisted on Dara Happa by Yelmgatha.

Sheng Seleris lit the 'Old Lights of Dara Happa', and whilst unexplained these have potential.

I am afraid that I am a little too much of a realist/simulationist to join into too overt a buy-in to a GL/Cambellian Monomyth so fully.

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

Even if neither you nor any of your ancestors was at the Battle of Night and Day, the womb-biting was shared by the Dozaki trolls, as was the coalescence into the Black Eater.

So - there was a battle, against nasty men of fire. There was a way too bright entity that got swallowed, and that then tore out of the womb damaging Korasting's fertility. That entity is D'Wargon, the Womb Biter.

Reason for the battle? None needed, nasty fire humans. Name of the foe? Irrelevant. The Black Eater's Darksense image (potentially with a blind spot at Nysalor) of the battle events is available in the Time-less moment, and can be re-lived by the curious and masochistic.

Absolutely understood.  That was never my question.  Just as every community has its own rationalisation of who or what is the deity of the sun (as per recent threads), the sun being an undenied and undeniable element of the cosmos, then even if they do not know of the 'actual' cause, each community would have its own rationalisation of each and every such.  Hence different pantheons with differing gods/spirits/whatevers of the same thing.  Rather like in the RW.

In the RW an event might be real and undeniable, but that does not mean that everyone will interpret it in the same way.  Is a solar eclipse caused by the dragon of darkness eating the sun, one sun dying and another being born, the renewal of the sun, or (ridiculous, I know) the moon being interposed between earth and sun?  Does the event require ritual bathing, tearing the hearts from victims atop a pyramid, the lighting of bonfires, or (ridiculous, I know) being viewed only through polarised lenses?   

It isn't that those who are not direct participants doubt the event, but how they rationalise/mythologise it that forms the basis of the question.

23 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Korasting is the mother and fertility power of the trolls.  Black Eater is obviously connected to her.  Black Eater eats Gbaji, and as Gbaji is used to being killed, and uses his light to rip out of  Korasting, who is supposed to be a pure pre-natal underworld darkness that allows for troll reincarnation.  All the trolls who rely on Korasting worship for their fertility are thus affected i.e. the Jungle Hot Trolls of Pamaltela are not affected.  If you look at Uz Lore, the trolls had been shrinking since coming to the surface, and obviously Gbaji discovered a way to make that worse.

I know that, you know that, because we have all read about it since Greg wrote about it.  My point is that if you are not in touch with the Nysalorian story, how do you attribute the curse?

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

The Dark Eater consumed Gbaji, who tore himself out of Korasting's belly, damaging her Womb. This is the event that causes the Enlo Curse.

Even trolls who do not know about Gbaji, and they will be very few and far between, understand that someone damaged Korasting so much that it affected her fertility.

My personal opinion is that Arkat Kingtroll is a Hero to trolls everywhere, certainly all trolls in Genertela and probably those in Jrustela as well, so if they know about Arkat they know about Gbjaji and the Curse of Kin.

I don't see why an Uz in Dozakiland would know of Gbaji. Seperated by several cultures and half a continent, why would he figure?  This was the point of my question - for.lack of D'Wargon, what is the mythological justification for the Curse of Kin?

Thank you for your collective opinions.

Not too sure where they will take me, but I am sure it will be an interesting ride!

Is Kyger Litor on Nysalor's bucket list?

Small, annoying, and regenerating. Oh joy.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

What do they receive in trade?

The enlo might be used in mining, raising ham beetles and the like.

Chern Durel has an oversupply of ancient statuary, some of which is stated to pertain to Darkness entities.

Lunar goods from the caravan, Pentan from the trading posts, and Kralori by regular land trading and raiding.  Human slaves from each of these and competing communities.  Crops from the places blessed by the Blood Sun.

Und so weiter....

Since the enlo of Chern Durel are noted as being slaves, I would think that they are constantly being renewed by the uz of Dozakiland, Eristland and Koromandol trading their value kin to the humans, while eating the others!😈

11 hours ago, metcalph said:

Except that the Trollkin Curse was not caused by the Sunstop but by the Battle of Night and Day a few years later.  It's possible that trolls and kralori could compress the two events butanyone examing it mythically would see the difference.  

Actually I doubt that they would, necessarily.  How many British people could differentiate the dates surrounding the invasions of England culminating in that of William of Normandy?  They are either forgotten or conflated into 1066, an event a mere 953 years ago, with uninterrupted records and a distinct lack of draconic disruption!

Lacking the understanding of what was happening to the west of them, they might easily understand this to be a curse four years in the making.

Since I am about to begin blogging re Chern Durel that was, indeed, the spur to my question.  I don't think that the uz would simply accept it as a curse without someone being to blame!

Since the Kralori identify the Sunstop with a mystical revelation to the Emperor, would he be a possible scapegoat?

Thanks, although I was not questioning the shared effect, but rather how it might have been locally interpreted.