Darius West

21 minutes ago, Jeff said:

That's not canon.

So, when Orlanth dies, you are saying Rigsdal doesn't replace him?  Who does then?  Clearly Orlanth and Ernalda die adter the sack of Whitewall and there is the Long Winter.  Clearly Orlanth is replaced.  Who replaces him?  According to what I read in HQ info, it's Rigsdal, or has that been retconned at some stage?  Which bit isn't canon?

28 minutes ago, M Helsdon said:

These are both cultural perceptions. For the Dara Happans, Polaris is a war god and hostile to the Orlanthi because they are; for the Orlanthi, Rigsdal is the faithful guardian in the night who protects them. Both are true, and both are false. Polaris and Rigsdal are aspects of the god of the Pole Star.

I know what you are aiming for.  It is called syncretism.  The problem is that it doesn't work when you have deities from hostile pantheons being syncretized.  You can say "the deity you call Rigsdal is the deity we call Polestar" until you're blue in the face, but they have different names, different mythology, and other problems like the whole "Orlanth Rigsdal is therefore Orlanth Polestar if we accept  the syncretism" issue.  This can't be passed off as a "mystery of the gods" because it implies that Polestar's right hand doesn't know what his left hand is doing, which is particularly unacceptable for a god who specializes in choreographed movements.

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

I hate to ask how this happens with Herd Men unless through some inversion . . . ball of tails, ball of thumbs. Probably a lot of tail shame around the moro people in general.

Get the eye bleach ready.  If you read this you are going to need it.  You have been warned.  Now, click on the spoiler and read the answer if you feel you must.

6 minutes ago, radmonger said:

If that change had stuck, why do you think that would mean Orlanth _was_ Rigsdal? Apart from the fact they have entirely different runes and natures, if Orlanth is dead, and Rigsdal is Orlanth, then Rigsdal is dead too. So what's the point?

The idea is that the Orlanth Pantheon needs a replacement for Orlanth who is dead and the present (live) Rigsdal is chosen for the role.  The problem being that the present (live) Rigsdal is supposedly also the god Polestar, who is no friend of Orlanth or his pantheon except when he is Rigsdal, but we are supposed to pay lip service to both being the same deity.

On 7/11/2022 at 6:38 PM, JRE said:

 I would expect most zzaburi, specially those with church duties, will never have a familiar, or even get close to Magus status. It may be linked to heroquests into past ages, it may be linked to the community or its absence. But unless the aim is to have no sorcerer players, except as a hobby to keep busy Lhankhor Mhy nerds, by creating spells and long term boosts, we need a framework for player character sorcerers that is workable and fun, even if it is not balanced. And that includes having progression targets.

I agree JRE.  This has been the ideal for a long time, and we haven't achieved it.  RQ seems to have a long term anti-sorcerer bias in many ways.  I suspect this is because they somewhat detract from the "primal" setting of RQ, and of course Greg hated Mostali and Mostali are sorcerers.  Presently sorcery does have things going for it, especially Duration.

That being said, I do like the new sorcery rules in RQG as they compare to RQ3.  I am also very interested to see how the rules will change with the upcoming GM's book, and perhaps a Sorcery/Malkioni/West book in the future.  

I am aware that in Glorantha a sorcerer is supposed to be some grayface in the background who spell buffs the Horali before they go into combat, but we can do better.  A sorcerer should be a playable role, and not an afterthought NPC.

This is an oversight worth correcting imo.

On 7/23/2022 at 1:51 AM, Soccercalle said:

Androgeus seems to be the super hero that we knows the least about. The Guide says that he/she has been around since the Greater Darkness and been reborn a lot of times.

Someone called "Goldtooth" is mentioned as one of his/her children. Is that the same person as Jaldon Goldentooth?

For a Gloranthan superhero, Androgeus keeps something of a low profile in the lore.

I remember reading that Androgeus had quite a few children and they were all powerful but, essentially deeply unpleasant and violent.  I have always assumed that Jaldon Goldentooth was one of them based on the quote that has been raised.  There is a fair chance that Sheng Seleris (Twisted Horse?) was too, but that it less certain.  This means that Androgeus may spend time in the Wastes and Pent.  

We also know from the Dragon Pass wargame that Androgeus sides with the Tarsh Exiles when they push to control the Dragon Pass region and destroy both Sartar and the Lunars.  Now this was likely done to provide the Tarsh Exile faction with a Superhero, but we now need to make this outcome lore friendly.  Clearly Androgeus chooses to throw in with the Tarsh Exiles, even against Jaldon Goldentooth who is likely Androgeus' own son, but why?  

Lets just say that Androgeus is a very ambiguous figure and has motives that are hard to fathom.  The Lunars think Androgeus came from a hell, while others think the Mostali made Androgeus and then cast them aside. It should also be pointed out that Androgeus is pretty old and allegedly was born in the Great Darkness, but then we read that Androgeus walked on the slopes of the Spike, which is impossible, as the Great Darkness pretty much begins with the destruction of the Spike.  The only way for both things to be true would be if Androgeus was actually a child of the Celestial Court on the Spike, who somehow survived the calamity.  Or Androgeus is fibbing...

Interestingly, the Kerofini, who form the core of the Tarsh Exiles regard Androgeus as a Sky Captain, which is a bit more flattering than some assumptions people tend to make.

There isn't a lot of art for Androgeus.  I think this comes from the Gods of Glorantha boardgame:

Lopers from the bestiary seem to be based on chalicotherium if it were covered in extraneous eyes.

16 hours ago, Jeff said:

Um, since when has Rigsdal been Orlanth? Polestar is not even an associated cult of Orlanth.

Remember when Orlanth and Ernalda were desecrated and died after the siege of Whitewall and the long winter sets in, then there is a HQ scenario to to get a replacement, and Rigsdal becomes Orlanth's replacement ?  I'm pretty sure that's canon.  Ergo, Polestar becomes Orlanth if Rigsdal=Polestar. And yes, Polestar is not associated with Orlanth, but Rigsdal is. See my problem with saying one deity is the same as another?  It doesn't work and creates Godlearner-style contradictions where enemy deities form associations that make no sense.

Anyone up for a Calculus lecture?

On 7/17/2022 at 12:42 PM, Grimmshade said:

Does anyone know of any good Miskatonic Repository material that contains more vehicles for 7e?

I'm looking for specific 20's and 30's cars, trucks, planes, etc , beyond what is found in the Keeper's and Investigator's books. 

While we're at it, a resource for travel in those time periods would be cool too. 

I had a friend who was doing in-depth research on vehicles of the period.  It started when his character made money on an 86-1 longshot out at Newmarket NY.  He then parlayed the cash into a speakeasy, and soon needed vehicles as the business began to expand.  He really loved Hudsons. 

As an overview, the auto market in the USA during the 1920s was quite a free-for-all.  Many carriage companies went into making auto bodies, but even companies like dept stores, bird cage manufacturers, and sewing machine companies started experimenting with cars.  Locking mechanisms were not invented until surprisingly late, due to cars being a rich person's toy and having chauffers. Windows didn't have safety glass, but ordinary dangerous old window glass, and no seatbelts.  Many if not most cars made in the USA simply had a GM motor bunged onto the frame, and were very similar in performance/weight ratios as a result.  Model T Fords, contrary to popular belief were already considered unreliable and obsolete in the 1920s, hence the nickname "flivver" which translated roughly means "flakey".  It took a long time for decent highways to be built around the USA but by 1927 there were a fair few, and that eased up on the number of tire punctures.  A real problem in the 1920s was the number of hit-and-run deaths.

In terms of aircraft, the Curtiss JN-4 Jenny biplane was ridiculously cheap, because they were WW1 surplus.  They were sold for as low as $50 in 1921 (unassembled and shipped in flat packs).  The first airline ran from Florida to the Bahamas using seaplanes, and there were no trans-Atlantic flights at all until well into the 1930s and they too used seaplanes.

Notably the US postal service loved Hudson cars, Curtiss Jennys, and Thompson SMGs.  They had some truly solid and forward thinking purchasing agents.

In terms of trucks, it was an age of grand theft auto.  You could sneak into building sites and make off with heavy machinery without much fuss, and some folk did.  Of course you then had to have a plan as to how to disguise the stolen vehicle.  You could also simply hop into many cars and simply press a button and drive away until the car theft epidemic led to plumb-bob security devices and then ignition keys.

It was a time of vast innovation in automobiles and there were literally hundreds of car companies in the USA, but they were gradually winnowed away over time and WW2. 

On 7/19/2022 at 12:51 PM, Vellcrow said:

So my group played The Lightless Beacon this past weekend and a question was brought up about about making skill rolls.

Early on, a call is made to make a successful Mechanical or Electrical Repair roll.  Normally, would each investigator make both rolls, or would they choose to roll whichever skill has the higher score for them?  This is not in reference to a combined skill roll.

Whenever you can have players roll more skill checks, let them.  Notionally this will help them speed up the work (well, that's how I GM it), and then they can have any skill tick they earn.  Characters die rather frequently, so letting them have the chance of a skill check or two is a good thing if they survive.

Tips for players:

1.  Enter the scary property without any prior investigation.  2. Get scared by things that are wrong.  3. Trip over something unnamable and dangerous. 4. Roleplay (very cathartic) screaming. 5. Die horribly. 6. Repeat.

The three most dangerous jobs in Arkham are police, animal control, and real estate agent.  Of course there aren't many real estate agents in the 1920s.

On 7/25/2022 at 1:01 AM, Jeff said:

Polestar is Polestar

Rigsdal is also Orlanth these days.  If Rigsdal=Polestar then Polestar=Orlanth.  That being the case, why is Polestar attacking the Dara Happans?  Is this some sort of coup where Polestar Orlanth is going to kill Sedenya Yelm?  Crossing one's own T much?

20 hours ago, David Scott said:

Rigsdal is Polaris worshipped as a spirit cult by the Orlanthi of Dragon Pass, giving a single rune spell, Captain Souls (RBM 23). So a very small following, appearing in the Other category for cults. As a spirit cult can be worshipped by anyone with a 50% rune affinity of Fire or Stasis. So Yelmalio worshippers or Orlanth worshippers with no emphasis on movement for example (Orlanth Thunderous). 

You can find Rigsdal's mythology (including Rigsdal and the Too-Face-Horde) in Heortling Mythology (page 159)

Note that the Hero Wars publications of 20 or so years ago had him overrepresented and overdeveloped.

Gaah!  Rigsdal isn't Polaris, they just have the same spells.  Just like Yelmalio isn't Elmal or Antirius or Tharkantus or Khim etc.  The Polestar is the Commander of the hosts of Yelm, and he doesn't need to work a second job watching Orlanth's stead for extra cash to pay off his chariot loan. 

On 7/23/2022 at 4:18 AM, soltakss said:

Only the Brithini, and maybe the Vadeli, have that.  Other Malkioni die even if they are true to their castes.

Agreed Soltkass, that is the point I am making here.  The Brithini and Vadeli have immortality as proof of their following of true Malkioni caste.  The others have to settle for the booby prize of mortality and the rather strangled promise of "solace".  In short, the poor Westerners think of themselves as Man Runes and not much as spirits.

13 hours ago, Jeff said:

When was Nysalor Illuminated and when did he realise it?

If by that you mean that Arkat achieved his awakening as Nysalor's shadow at the same time Nysalor achieved full illumination, that is an interesting perspective indeed.

On 7/23/2022 at 1:26 PM, EricW said:

I suspect if Arkat died it was by choice, like choosing to spend all his time somewhere else, rather than an event he could not avoid. Someone as powerful as Arkat could have performed one of the immortality heroquests with ease, if he wanted to.

I think his body was likely disinterred from his Godly stasis and destroyed by the God Learners during the attack on Statham Well.

On 7/23/2022 at 1:02 AM, scott-martin said:

Provenance and nomenclature aside, I really like the notion of alien survival covenants migrating into Eiritha Country with their exotic adaptations. Good for story and gives the loper people a little more ecological heft while testing the limits of the Prax system in play. What does it take to be children of Eiritha? How does adoption work? Does the process go both ways?

The logical answer is that children of Eiritha are the beasts the goddess births.  Having their spirits in their tails is another big feature, and is central to the Peaceful Cut, as it involves the careful releasing of that spirit back to Eiritha from the tail.  In my Prax, it is possible to sacrifice horses and other animals on an altar to Eiritha using the Peaceful Cut to add their spirits to Eiritha's herd, but that is a separate issue.  As to humans being children of Eiritha, they either need to initiate, or be born of an Eiritha initiate mother.  The Ostrich and Bolo Lizard tribes are only Eiritha worshippers by adoption and refer to her as Aunt Eiritha, as birds and lizards cannot come from a mammalian momma.  Eiritha lays no eggs.

On 7/23/2022 at 12:41 AM, David Scott said:

I'm interested in this reference, I've never seen any mention of who the third party is. In my games, it's the morokanth...

Yes, for a long time I too thought it was the morokanths who were the "third leg" of the Two Legged Alliance, but then I stumbled across the Nose Lopers.  If only I could still find that reference in the sea of Glorantha lore...

4 hours ago, JRE said:

In the Guide I found the only mention of Nose lopers is as an alternative name for cave trolls, I suppose for their prominent snout and walking gait.

The Loper people (Zaranistangi) and their Loper mounts come from Pamaltela in Godtime, as allies of the Artmali Empire, where they got the red sword of Tolat, and later saving Teshnos from the dragon Sshorg, and bringing the worship of Tolat there. In historical times they appear in Seshnelan history in the second age as enemies, and they lost the Red Sword there, though a God Learner used the lost Red Sword to become king of Teshnos. Apparently they still exist in Melib, though they travel all over Glorantha.

So I am afraid no connection with Eiritha that we know.

There are references to Nose Lopers as the now extinct tribe that is the third part of the Two Legged Alliance, along with the Ostrich Riders and the Bolo Lizards.  David Scott's reference is on page 29 not page 28 of Cults of Prax, where the extinct tribes are also mentioned but not named.  As to the Zaranistangi, yes they are definitely Loper riders, but read closely on page 151 of the bestiary and it mentions that Praxian Hunters claim to sometimes encounter them in the Wastes despite claims they are extinct... like the extinct Nose Loper tribe.  I am not making this up, even if I can't presently lay my hands on where the original reference is.

12 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Arkat exists in the Hero Plane. You could go to Statham Well and meet him. During the era of the Dark Empire, his most devoted acolytes did just that. But when his empire fell, the God Learners destroyed every path to Statham Well. Try as they might, nobody could contract the Great Hero.

Despite that, Arkat is somehow back in our world. How that is even possible and what that means is a mystery, but he's back.

Gods die.  We know this.  It happened back at the Fall of Whitewall.  The Lunars wouldn't stop crowing about it.  Is it then any surprise that when Humans break the Great Compromise that they unleash forces of Cosmic Vengeance?  It happens at the close of every age.  Civilizations get hubristic and make gods, and then they get destroyed.  Arkat was the cosmic vengeance for the hubris of the creation of Nysalor, and Argrath was unleashed to destroy Sedenya, with the catalyst likely being the death of Orlanth and Ernalda.

1 hour ago, svensson said:

People were not 'stupid back then'.

I am merely paraphrasing from the famous quote "The past is a foreign country, and the people who live there are *&%$ing idiots."😉 WSS?

1 hour ago, svensson said:

People were not 'stupid back then'. Society had not progressed to the point of complete acceptance of those whose sexuality was not mainstream. Social progress is just that: PROGRESS. Just because a society has not progressed to the point gender fluidity and the Alphabet Mafia does not mean that they are cruel, or unjust, or stupid. Just as their government is more primitive or their technology is more primitive, their society is not as advanced as ours is trying to be. Holding a culture accountable for strides and growth that it has not had a chance to make yet is like allowing a 10 year old to sign a binding legal contract today. The child can't be held liable for the contract because they don't have the maturity to understand the full ramifications of such a thing.

Actually when it comes to such issues and how people in the past regarded them, if viewed across ALL human societies we really don't know what the prevailing attitudes were.  What we can be certain of is that in a great many Classical societies where women were regarded as chattel that men who were bereft of their willies were legally regarded as women.  This likely had a religious basis as male initiation into Goddess cults such as Cybele required castration. 

As for ten y/o being legally able to form contracts, our whole notion of childhood is a 19th century cultural artifact originating in Germany with the creation of Kindergartens.  People tend to forget that generations used to be 15 year turn-overs, not the 25 years we assume today due to increased life expectancy.  A child was considered a conscious thinking individual by their 7th birthday in many cultures, and ten was the same as the teens, given the lower life expectancy.  Back then taking your Bar or Bat Mitzvah really meant Adulthood.

1 hour ago, svensson said:

Another thing to remember is that Glorantha is a primal environment much like our own Bronze Age was. In Glorantha, the Male and Female Imperatives actually have the mystical power ascribed to them by our ancestral worship of Frey/Freya, Bel /Ishtar, Osiris /Isis, etc. Then you get into 'who is the child of who' when speaking of inheritance, lineage, rights, and a host of other issues. Non-mainstream gender roles or identities are made allowance for, but the mainstream expectations of the words 'family', 'inheritance', 'lineage', and so forth still hold sway.

And being such a primal environment, what better way of offering your service to a goddess of bloody vengeance than by offering up your own severed cock?

28 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Surely you can (re)incarnate from the Gods World? That Arkat apotheosized is completely canon. It’s almost immaterial exactly what happened to his body in the process. Did Sartar die? I guess in a way in that his body was consumed by flame, but it doesn’t really matter.

If Orlanth can die then so can Arkat.

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

Weird take, given that we know Illumination frees you from the irrational, unthinking fear of Chaos. YGWV, I guess.

Any sane person should hate chaos as it is the cancer of the Goddess Glorantha and threatens the life of the world.  If you think that having no FEAR of chaos is illumination then every good Stormbull is an illuminate.  As to the irrational and unthinking component, well, isn't irrationality the very core of illumination?  Exterminate all rational thought etc?

This double-think is paralyzing to the average mind that tries to parse such alleged mysticism, and that is a deliberate tool of state control used by the madness promulgating chaos worshiping Lunar Empire, and amounts to trying to baffle with BS.  Weakness is Strength.  Truth is Falsehood.  And the Lunar Empire is a boot stamping on a human face forever.

I was recently reading the Glorantha Bestiary and came across the Loper on pages 150-151.  This creature is covered in eyes.  I suspect that this creature is therefore an Eye Loper, and we might reasonably therefore expect there to have been Ear Lopers, Tongue Lopers, and Nose Lopers based upon a similar model.  There might even be Touch-Lopers who manifest hands or some other touch-related organ.   I suspect that while the Eye-Loper is able to teleport, that this was a power related to their vision i.e. 'move as far as you can see' or something similar, and I suspect that other creatures of this type would have powers related to their given sense.

It is also worth noting that while the Loper on page 150 is depicted with a short tail, it is written up as having no tail.  This is significant for a Prax beast.  We know that the Nose-Loper tribe were one of the tribes of Prax, which tells us that the Lopers were creatures of Eiritha.  Beasts of Eiritha need to be killed with Peaceful Cut, with specific care taken as to the disposal of the tail so they can return to Eiritha and be reborn.  For the Lopers to have no tail explains why they are no longer domesticated in Prax and are believed to be extinct by Praxians.  Somehow, somewhere, Lopers lost their connection to Eiritha.

I suspect that the Lopers were a very early manifestation of Eiritha, when she was a young goddess exploring the world with these beasts acting as her senses.  Obviously Tada had Eiritha buried to protect her from Death, but perhaps Death could sense Eiritha more strongly in the Lopers and persecuted them to the point where many are now presumed extinct?  Obviously there isn't much to go on.  I hope the ideas presented are interesting.