Darius West

I agree with Andrew TBP, that Darkwalk should lapse at the start of an attack, as this has always been a long standing convention across RPGs.

That being said, the Darkwalk (RQG p325) spell write-up doesn't explicitly say as much, and that is a problem.

So what would the spell be like if invisibility didn't lapse?  Well, it provides complete invisibility, but only in conditions of darkness.  Arguably this means you can hide in shadows very well, because even I become "invisible" in darkness and I don't claim any magical powers.  On the other hand Darkwalk doesn't confer the ability to see in the dark, and that's a problem if you want to move through it, let alone fight in dark conditions.  Rules regarding Darkness are on p153-4 of RQG.

I think it is easiest to regard Darkwalk as an invisibility spell that requires shadows to operate, that will lend the caster invisibility if they are in darkened areas for 15min. The effects of the invisibility rune spell are on p333, and a 1pt Rune Spell shouldn't be more powerful than a 3pt Rune Spell.  I think you can slip from dark area to dark area without the spell lapsing (apart from when you are in the light), but if you attack, the spell lapses imo. At least that is what I would let my players get away with...

On 3/12/2022 at 6:01 AM, g33k said:

Flip that script, Ian:  "herd dogs" is the "ordinary" of pastoralism+dogs.  Doing the same in Prax is the non-innovative thing!
😉

You may have a point.  Praxians seem to derive a huge portion of their identity by rejecting everything that Pentans do, while at the same time being quite similar to the Pentans in many ways.  Could it be that this is a case of the narcissism of small differences at work?  That being "If those Pentan horse-and-cattle using hegemonizing filth use dogs to help with their herding, we refuse to on principle!"   Of course it is cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, but in Prax that is just ritual scarification.

The ancients also generally engaged in "foundation rituals" which involved the sacrifice of material goods and animals or even people to specific deities whose favor was sought as the future building or city's patron.  These might go so far as the person/priest leading the ritual sacrificing a part of their body, such as a portion of a finger, a whole finger, an eye, an ear, toe, or even a hand in cases of extreme piety. 

As Jeff stated, there were always auguries cast before the work was begun, and these could take many forms.  In China this was done according to Feng Shui, elements of which are 6000 years old.  The Romans and Greeks preferred to watch birds, with the species and their behavior being the indicators, as birds interacted with the heavens and were their messengers.  Hindus like to set their temples near water with lotus flowers and plenty of water birds.  Astrology was also a very popular and widespread method for determining good times to build.

These rituals are still observed in a vestigial form with groundbreaking ceremonies today.

When founding a city there were numerous considerations, and the ancients were likely very aware of the logistical constraints regarding where a city would be possible.  Obviously a reliable water supply was a primary concern, followed by access to food, but those alone would only justify a village.  Cities were sometimes purpose built to militarily occupy a place that was important, such as a trade route, an invasion route, or a pilgrimage route.  In Glorantha I cannot think of a better example of this than Wintertop, which is all three.

The whole notion of Sun Dragon is... interesting.  It was an EWF syncretist draconic Solar path to help with the occupation of Dara Happa.  The idea that a Yelmalio in Prax should be resurrecting it is decidedly odd, but there is also a wyrm who lives on one of the gates of the Big Rubble that worships Sun Dragon.  Perhaps Belvani is a convert?

16 hours ago, Zit said:

Because there is no Praxian Myth related to herding with dogs ?

...That we know of...  Perhaps we should write one?

On 3/8/2022 at 6:35 AM, Bill the barbarian said:

And think of the money you will save on barbells!

You will need training to lift The Guide to Glorantha.  I nearly threw my back out carrying them to my car from the Con on the day I bought it.

18 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I picture Saird (as center of the ancient Jajalaring culture, i.e. worshipers of Jajagappa, Rowdril, and other dog gods) as one of those cultural centers, and by extension some of the Orlanthi tribes around in Holay, Imther, Vanch, and possibly Sylila.  These lands fell within the Kingdom of Saird when it existed and the Verenmars dynasty aided Alakoring's defeat of the EWF.

I suspect that north of Dragon Pass herding with dogs is pretty ubiquitous.  Wikipedia suggests that the use of dogs for herding irl begins 8000-7000BC, which is well before the start of the Bronze Age.  Dogs naturally want to chase herds around.  Does anyone have the faintest idea why that might be ? (jk)

Now in Genertela, the whole fight between the Alynxes and the Dogs is a pretty important myth.  On the other hand, once you head up past Tarsh, I suspect that you find Orlanthi who keep dogs not cats, and they have a very different approach to the myths.  There the wind howls like a wolf, or a dog.  Perhaps in Sartar the wind screeches like a cat?  Of course most of this has occurred in Glorantha's myths because Greg Stafford was a self-admitted-and-dyed-in-the-wool cat person.

I suspect that the Solar Pantheons rather like the love and loyalty of their dogs, even if the Orlanthi would see them as co-dependent lickspittles. I also think it is a bit silly that Prax Hounds only guard the campsites of Praxians, when a pragmatic people like Praxians with limited resources who grow up with dogs far more than cats would surely use them for hunting and herding instead of just camp guards and pre-heated pillows on cold nights, and the occasional source of even more leather.  Given that both Foundchild and Brother Dog are worshipped in Balazaar and Prax, why are hunting dogs only found in Balazaar?  Surely the dog training knowledge moves with the cult?

In terms of dogs and cats, I personally don't have a dog in the fight (see what I did there?), I think both dogs and cats are very different but lovely critters in their own rights, and better friends than humanity often deserves.

4 hours ago, JRE said:

As this is the Glorantha forum, rather than the Runequest one, I would prefer a deeper discussion than "it depends on the GM".

Completely fair, and well put.  While I haven't included the whole thing, your comment represented a good approach to the problem.

My understanding is that on Genertela pretty much all the iron originates from the Iron Mountains where the Dwarves trade it, with a few smaller outlying sources.  Most of the iron follows trade routes from the Belskan Mostali of the Iron Mountains to the far reaches of the continent, wherever merchants go.  It might be compared to how the bulk of bronze age tin likely came from the mines of Cornwall.  Of course we aren't really talking about iron from our world by Ur-metal.

I think it is fair to say that there was a lot more iron available in the Second Age, as the God Learners needed plenty.  I would suspect that the Clanking Ruins would be an excellent source for all metals, iron included.  I also think that the iron that is in circulation has probably been re-worked, re-forged, and re-purposed a great many times because it is rare.  As to how rare it really is, we don't know because most humans only have second-hand access to it.  The Dwarves seldom seem to want for iron supplies, so perhaps it is plentiful if you know where and how to find it?

I think we should see more home and hearth-based protection magics in Glorantha, definitely.  They are a staple in so many world cultures as an expression of a family's spiritual beliefs.   Spells to keep out the evil eye, turn spells and drive off evil spirits are every bit as important as those that protect a wife in childbirth, help the crops to grow, and make the livestock plentiful.

On 1/31/2022 at 5:20 AM, The Wanderer said:

Do you track the stats of every NPC in your campaign? I'm a lazy GM with little time, and I feel overwhelmed with the possibility of having to track (and update every year of campaign) things like glory and skills of all the NPCs (or even "just" the important ones).

Before starting ANY game of ANY sort, I will generally stat out at least 20-40 recurring NPCs.  Always the PCs' families and SOs, their co-workers, and important local shop keepers, and a few adversaries.

Pendragon is good in that you have pregen knight stats in the books, and all the big names have already been done for you.  

On 2/8/2022 at 2:31 AM, The Wanderer said:

Also there's the issue with the servitum debitum of the manor as the old uncle can't fight but still lives and there is no knight till the heir becomes knight 😱

The heir's family can pay for a mercenary to fill the role for 2 years.  This is the origin of scutage.

7 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Rules as written, that's not true.  Anyone can use iron.  

True, it hasn't been true since the metal Enchantment rules of RQ3, but I have always played that nobody in a cult will ever perform an enchantment or teach enchantment to anyone who isn't Rune level.  Iron was exclusive to Rune Levels in RQ2 and I think this has always been the intention.

Kero Fin is a freakishly unnatural looking mountain.  It strikes into the sky like an enormous needle of unimaginable height, and is far higher than Mount Everest.  You cannot see the top of Kero Fin without hero questing.   Is it in fact the remains of a Space Elevator cable system?  Of course not, this is fantasy, not sci fi, and the Mostali are not right about the world machine.  Yes, there may be people living an idealized life up there in this Dome like structure, but to say that they are living in some sort of space habitat is just wrong, they are Shanasse, not Shanasstronauts.

I can't quite get my head around why Praxians don't use dogs to help with herding.  Perhaps 1600 years of history just hasn't been enough time to figure this trick out?  We know Praxians do worship Brother Dog, but he doesn't even hunt with them.

Is Belintar a Vadeli?  Is he a surviving God Learner who hid out under the sea for centuries?  What we do know is he is also Jospeh Curwen from "the Thing on the Doorstep".😜

I once had a Vingan player called Tora who had become a refugee in Esrolia after the fall of Sartar.  Being female and a warrior, she was far better received than her male friends by the sexist Esrolian matriarchy, who were in need of warriors given the alarming rate of Lunar expansion.  Tora then parlayed her slim influence to over-reach her authority amazingly and organize the various Holy Country defenses into a trap involving the building of a great big wall manned by Orlanthi and Dwarves. The Wall itself involved plenty of sorcery, gnomes, and lava. More amazingly, she had never read Gloranthan history and did it all spontaneously, earning the sobriquet Tora the Glorious and becoming an Esrolian general with lands and title thereafter.  So in a way, my Glorantha didn't vary, the deeds remained the same, but the actors changed.

I think Manthi Flints might be a euphemistic term for borrowed thunderstones.  Manthi charges his with electric eels who stole the magic before time.

On 3/1/2022 at 12:01 AM, AndreJarosch said:

Aldrami are vegetarians. 
Aldrami bodies are plant matter. 
I am sure there are conflicts between different Aldryami groups/forests (now or in the past). 
Would an Aldryami eat the corpse of an other Aldryami?
Would an Aldryami KILL an enemy Aldryami for food?
 

Aldryami do not eat plants.  Aldryami eat in private.  Human guests will find that they are quite welcome among Aldryami but will note that there is no communal hearth, no communal eating, and no communal toilet.  Eventually human guests will notice that the Aldryami begin to watch them expectantly a couple of hours after they have eaten, and are quick to offer them leaves for toilet paper.  They will notice that the elves seem to smile widely and expectantly as they pass them the toilet leaves, and seem to watch solicitously as they go about the call of nature.  Soon after one of the elves will take turns with the self-same shovel and attend to their own 'calls of nature', in a conspiratorially pre-organized roster.  Never ever follow this elf, because the truth you will discover is really awkward, and is euphemistically referred to as the Mystery of Lembas.  Also, never kiss an Aldryami or you may discover the answer to the Mystery of Lembas the hard way.  Elves... Always happy to see you...

6 minutes ago, EricW said:

So was it a gradual deterioration which led to the monster empire? Or did the ascension of Ralzakark suddenly open the floodgates?

Yes and yes.  These ideas are not mutually exclusive imo Eric y'old chaos fiend. 😉

On 3/3/2022 at 8:39 PM, svensson said:

How common is iron gear for Rune levels in your RQG campaigns?

The problem with iron in Glorantha is that there just isn't much of it, and what there is generally lies in the hands of someone tougher than you.

On 3/3/2022 at 8:39 PM, svensson said:

The example Rune levels we're given are all tanked up in full enchanted, tempered iron or Rune-metal gear, but they all have full and total clan support.

But what do down-at-heel adventurers get?

Down-at-heels adventurers generally aren't Rune Level, and of course you can't use iron at all until you reach Rune Level.  Your poor rubble crawler might find a piece of iron or two, but they will generally put it into storage for the day (they hope) they make Rune level.

On 3/3/2022 at 8:39 PM, svensson said:

In RQ2 and 3, we were hoarding iron like we were trying to build a battleship because the Pavis area cults were too poor or had such louzy relationships with the Dwarves that they could rarely provide any Rune iron gear.

This sounds about right.  Pavic dwarves don't have access to much iron either imo.

On 3/3/2022 at 8:39 PM, svensson said:

But things have changed. The Sartar branches of Storm cults generally have a better manufacturing base and economy, not to mention having a decent relationship with Dwarf Mine, so it seems as if iron gear is more common. However, I may very well be wrong here.

I take this as being part of RQG and the Lunars amping up their iron access while in occupied Sartar.  This industry is inherited by Argrath's Sartar.

On 3/3/2022 at 8:39 PM, svensson said:

Does a newly ordained Sword of Humakt [for example] get a tempered iron sword to transfer his Gifts to?

I would say, yes, unequivocally, and it forms a central part of their induction as a Sword of Humakt.

I play it that the adoption of the Undeath Rune cuts the undead entity off from all spirit interactions.  In effect they have become a perverse form of sorcery spell by becoming undead.  They can use spells to see spirits, but they cannot interact with spirits except via spells and vice versa.  There can be no spirit combat between the undead and spirits.  Yes, you can use sorcery spells that drain MP to destroy the undead.  Sever Spirit is used on the living, not the undead as Humakt has the Turn Undead spell for dealing with them.

Yes, you can have integrated Shamans in a civilized setting.

Consider that while shamans CAN only hunt for spirits in out-of-the-way and haunted places, they can perform their rituals anywhere once they know the spirits name for summoning purposes.

It is also worth pointing out that Shaman Cults follow powerful spirits who can grant Rune Magic.  This means that Shamans are defacto priests, just like Priests are defacto shamans thanks to their allied spirits.  Thus a shaman can have a "magical space" devoted to their "powerful spirit", but it isn't quite a temple and it isn't quite a god, just give it a couple of generations.

Also, the Horned Man might choose anyone to spontaneously become a Shaman.  There you are minding your own business, cooking a fish, and you doze off to have terrible dream where this antlered guy makes you fight your own shadow, and suddenly your world is populated with visions of spirits and you can do magic.  The Zzaburi are going to be very annoyed about this!

On 1/24/2022 at 12:02 AM, GhislainBlais said:

Hi,

I'm about to reveal the Black Sun in my Achtung Cthulhu campaign.

But, as "Nachtwolfe" seems to be a german term... "Black Sun" is definitively not. I don't think the group refer to themselves in another language.

I tought about a pure translation : "schwarze sonne".

Do somebody have a better idea?

This is the Nazi symbol of the Black Sun and it is called "Das Sonnenrad" or Sun Wheel.   It is all over Wewelsburg castle in Germany in mosaic form. Wewelsburg was Himmler's "special SS cult place", and if you have ever played Castle Wolfenstein, well Wewelsburg was sort of the inspiration for it.  So if you're ever in the mood for a great shoot-'em-up pulp style against the SS, that is the place to go for your next Achtung C'thulhu adventure.

On 3/1/2022 at 10:07 PM, Paul Fricker said:

This episode is our discussion of the presentation of mind control in RPGs. Genre fiction is full of unnatural magic, weird drugs, and sinister devices that twist the human mind according to the wielder’s desires. Villains may plant compulsions in the heads of protagonists, twist their perceptions, or alter their memories. And, of course, this is reflected heavily in gaming. But how do we make it work? Does it have to remove player agency? And what happens when these tools and techniques fall into the hands of player characters?

Let me open by saying that REMOVING PLAYER AGENCY IS THE CARDINAL SIN OF GMing.

I hate removing player agency in any way, and try to get them to live out the motives and interactions of their characters in the most immersive way possible.

That being said, I use a lot of horrible mind magic in my CoC games, as the loss of agency is something that is pretty scary.  Here are some of my methods...

1.  Mind Control is something that happens "to other people".  The players keep their agency, but come to fear the scaly shadow of the evil hypnotist as they create mind controlled puppets in the community to do their evil will.  The players can mainly resist the magic, but they must save the NPCs.  I am very into creating memorable NPCs that are actively useful to players in CoC because when they die, it really hurts and amps up the horror.  Mind Controlling them is just a little less final.  Putting players into situations where they potentially have to kill their NPC friends they have come to love and rely on is plenty "horror".  This can lead to "fugitives for a crime they didn't commit", "invasion of the body snatchers", "exorcist" and similar fun tropes.  Every author is a thief, and so should every GM steal and repurpose plots to their own ends.

2.  Crude Control.  Rather than destroying agency, the evil hypnotist is merely able to use their power to get the character to perform or not perform certain simple actions.  The character is fighting the control, but they must still obey the ominous command to "pull the lever of doomy doom doom".  This is the "Hold Person" version of mind control.   It limits the character's actions but doesn't compromise their sense of agency any more than throwing a net on them might.

3.  "When I woke up I discovered I had eaten my pillow" Control.  The idea here being that the mind control is exercised over the player's body while they are asleep.  They are a somnambulist serial killer a la the Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, except at large in the community and controlled via their dreams.  They wake up fully dressed, or wake to discover shoes are muddy, or with blood on their hands, or with a child's body embedded in the radiator of their car.    They faintly remember snatches of their dreams, but know the truth and must take steps to stop what is happening to them.  It is a werewolf scenario, where you become a bad guy at night unless carefully contained, but only once you realize what is happening.  It doesn't destroy agency, it just adds a new problem.

4.  Abuse of Power with a surprise ending Control.  Most players love turning a game into a power fantasy, it's an addiction, and they like nothing more than to develop a new spell or form of expertise.  But what about when that spell comes with a side-effect of slight but increasingly abnormal behavior after you perform it?  Players will normally keep pushing the skill regardless and wear the consequences in good murder hobo tradition.  Then you begin to slide them clues that the power doesn't belong to them, but is theirs on sufferance, and the more they use it, the less control they have over the power and their character itself.  Can they go cold turkey?  Will going cold turkey be enough to save them?    This does take away agency, but really only becomes an issue as you get closer to facing the big bad hypnotist.  They thought they were using the spell, but the spell was using them.  What a twist! 

There are definitely other ways to handle this, but I like these as they don't destroy player character agency too much, save in minor ways and in the service of the plot.

On 3/1/2022 at 9:42 PM, EricW said:

Lunars have access to Chaos Gift.

That felt good - extra strength to swing a sword, greater dexterity, extra endurance to survive damage, greater intelligence or power.

What happens if the Lunar wants to go further? So for example, if they want a "permanent" chaos gift? Will they still be accepted by their community? What are the social or legal consequences?

Lunars are mainly anti-chaos in a typically Solar way.  Chaos is only safe when it falls within the ritual controls of the organs of the Imperial Lunar State (but perhaps not even then).  There are heroes of the Lunar Empire who have won their status by attacking Thanatar temples, and most Lunar cults have no chaos components.  Of course this tolerance towards the utterly inimical nature of Chaos to Glorantha and everything that lives has been made possible by the adoption of the Illumination taught by the ghost of Nysalor to the Red Goddess in hell.  Soon the Lunars will come to fully adopt the powers of Chaos when Ralzakark becomes the new Red Emperor, just as the Mad Satrap prophesied.