RogerDee

in actual fact I am playing with just using combined D100 stuff to create an Elric setting. So i got to thinking how it would relate if i used examples from media.

Ancient Ones which I called Deiwos could easily be Tolkien Maiar

Olympians from HPL story could easily be Xena-verse gods.

Jinn could easily be Supernatural Pagan gods.

Mythras gods could easily have been Tolkien Valar before becoming corporeal, at which point they could easily be Clash of the Titan Olympian or Buffy-verse Old Ones.

These are all termed Lesser Ones.

Greater Ones included Elric's Lords of Animals / Beasts, Lords of Dream, Lords of Plants, Grey Fees, and Incarnations (Piers Anthony Incarnations of Immortality).

In modern comics she is almost as powerful as Superman, and like Shazam is powered by magic.

Already working on something. It has a lot of copy-pasta stuff that I have nicked, that will be re-written at some point.

53 minutes ago, Imaginosmusic said:

Could he beat Bobby Flay?

You asked if he could flay Mr Blobby right?

18 hours ago, Imaginosmusic said:

Not sure if I have this straight or not, but,  near as I can tell.

Elric and Moonglum waylaid Frodo and stole the one ring. They pawned it and defaulted on the loan. Corum then purchased it. The pawnbroker looked remarkably like Captain Jean-Luc Picard. No one including Corum, likes captain Picard, so Corum put a hit on him. The hit man, Luke Skywalker, took the money, chickened out and is currently on the run. No one wants a pissed off Vadhagh after them. Soooo, Luke Skywalker is currently making his way through Known Space to the Ringworld with Speaker to Animals and Nessus in The Hot Needle of Inquiry. Corum, still angry, has enlisted The Red Baron and Buck Rogers to find and off them. They are currently on their way to the planet Dune where they hope to meet Mr. Clean, The Three LIttle Pigs and Metallica, enlist their expertise, and 'Beat' Bobby Flay...

 

Behold the true terror, the true Lord of the Sith. He should be feared, the most powerful dark lord that all try to emulate from Voldermort to Morgoth. Next his power all are insignificant and should tremble before him.

Notice how all Sith Lords attempt to copy his yellow eyes

1 minute ago, Atgxtg said:

I'm relying on primary source material and real world physics. It is something that, if you are using real physics, has to be so. 

You're not. You mix 'n matching whatever material you want to give you whatever result you are looking for. That's fine, as long as you relize that is what you are doing. But you can't do that and claim that you have any sort of definitive answer. It's entirely arbitrary.

 

 

 

 

You're not relying on primary source material, you're ignoring some in-universe evidence. A photon torpedo destroys and asteroid and we can know what it is made of, or its size we can determine yield required. We see part of a city destroyed and we know the size, see a crater we can determine some of the effects. We know the size of something moved by a tractor beam, and composition it would allow us to work out its capabilities.

21 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

No. This is the key point.

The whole argument that the yield of a photon torpedo can be calculated using real world physics is based upon ignoring the proven (in universe) fact that phasers exceed those limits. Now since photorp torpedoes are stated as being more powerful than phasers they must, logically also exceed those limits. So mathematically:

T>P>Jmax

with:

Jmax= Max Energey in Joules, per E-mc^2

P= Phaser Energy

T= Photon Torpedo Energy

 

So any argument that state that photon torpedo energy must be capped by E=mc^2 has been "proven" false according to the laws of physics used in Star Trek. Otherwise phasers wouldn't work.

We can calc yield based upon visuals, what we know of objects being destroyed. For instance their density, mass etc. You're relying purely on one source when a plethora exist. Don't limit yourself that way. Use everything at your disposal.

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Not a reliable source. Oh speaking of which there would a whole debate around just what is considered to be an acceptable source. Generally anything not shown on screen is dubious, and even some of the on screen stuff is questionable or contradictory. 

Feat threads use stuff from canon sources, upon which to drawn a conclusion

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

No but what it does mean is that what works in X would work in Y. I can take any argument about one series ships being better than another and bring up "evidence" that can prove otherwise. But it all depends on which assumptions you want to make.

For instance, Star Wars tech is mostly advanced low tech. That is the ships work much like WWII era ships, only in space with lasers rather than machineguns and such. That was a conscious decision by Lucas, as he was trying to capture the feel of SF stories of that time. But is that a limitation of the technology or simply how the technology appears to work? Visual targeting would be pretty useless when shooting a targets moving at the ranges and speeds that the ships are commonly believed to be moving at (which on screen evidence doesn't support).

Right and this tells us a whole lot about the technology involved. That they really are not flying very fast, and yes your are spot on about Lucas making a decision to have dog fights taking place that mimic WW2 stuff.

If you want a real laugh go look at the Phantom Menace fight with the Gungans and the Droids. A blaster beam bounces off the ground and hits something. Does this mean that blasters do that? Heaven's no. It was an effect fail, but a funny one.

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Except those "certain core conceits' are uncertain variables that chance from setting to setting or even from story to story. 

Yes, but usually it is enough that we can draw logical conclusions based upon what we see, what is said, and interpretation

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

 Just go with the minimum to achieve critical mass and you get a minimum threshold for 100 cobalt bombs. 

I could say that a racecar has thousands of horsepower, does not make that statement true, This was an offhand comment, that is again likely hyperbole.

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

But that's assuming that E-=Mc^2 holds true ,and there is Trek stuff that puts that into doubt. Case in point, according to E=mc^2 antimatter can't power a warp drive, yet war drives work. We also know that Trek has another layer of Peroid elements with properties that we don't understand, such a Dilithium. There are also sources that state that phaser tehnology can produce more power out that you put in. It violates laws of physics but we're already admitting that. Once you open up that Pandroa's box you have to deal with what comes out of it. 

This is not so much a problem as you might think. It is science fiction after all. Having something that breaks science in some ways is fine as long as the rest of it is not too heavily buggered.

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Okay, first of all you keep using "canon' sources rather loosely. In Star Trek the only canon source is what is shown on TV series and the feature films And the JJ Verse and Discovery are not in the same canon. Now Stars has recently shifted to the same rules by tossing out the EU (it was always that way,but they just admitted it). 

There is the technical manual which was created which does give us lots of data. Direct canon....debatable. But it does give us solid numbers upon which to use. Okay now Discovery is actually Prime Timeline, allegedly. This may change, and quite frankly I would like it to go its own way and forget prime timeline. JJ verse is dead at the moment as Pine and Hemsworth have dropped out. Star Wars had a layered canon structure. Glad EU is gone though, although that prick Chee keeps trying to bring back gigaton firepower.

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

And so are you. Just becaome some writer 30 years later writes something doesn't mean than the previous statement was wrong, or that thing don't change. Your still just cherry picking the stuff you want to accept as fact.

Not quite,. what I'm trying to do is understand whether the statement made is correct, hyperbole, and what evidence we have. Someone saying herpaderp derp we can blow up a moon in some franchise. Unless we see it, or evidence of similar levels of firepower said claim is entirely suspect. People raved on recently how Trek firepower had gone up on the scale due to Alt. Phillipa's throneship virtually blew up a planet.  Despite certain visuals that debunked due to lack of certain effects or that they were likely on the ship made of neutronium. Which in Trek;s case seems to more akin to actual neutronium.

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Now real world physics:

1. It would take an insane amount of energy to get matter to do that-much more that could be stored in a hand phaser that someone could pick up and carry. 

2. It would release an incredible amount of radiation and energy (it's essentially a fission reaction) and would kill anybody close enough to take the shot from radiation exposure, assuming that it just doesn't go all nuclear explosion. 

Conclusion:

1. Phasers either contain more power than E=mc^2 allows, in which case all the photorp calculations are meaningless as we don't know what else is going on with them, or  phasers use some unknown principle to break atomic bonds and control the effects, in which case all the photorp calculations are meaningless as we don't know what else is going on.

Phasers do more than DET (direct energy transfer) they possess NDF (nuclear disruptive force) allowing for exotic effects. 

48 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Between the warp drive phaser, transporter and inertial dampers, you have already thrown out so many of the laws of physics that what you got left over is entirely suspect and can't be used to prove anything.  And that's just one of your settings.

You're whacking the donkey with sweets in again.

Did Captain Kirk float off the bridge or did the fall kill him? It was the latter. Do people die in a vacuum, yep. Can they get shot with bullets or energy weapons and die. Yep again. Do people get injured, Again yep. Do people need to breath. Again affirmative. Do people need to eat food? Yep. Would people die going to warp without some kind of inertia dampening technology?Yep. Physics works fine really, just a few physics breaking effects but nothing that cannot be worked around.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

No you could have Middle Earth occur before the Lord of Law/Chaos or after they are destroyed. More likely the latter.

This is indeed true, but considering Hakwmoon is set in the future, Earth post cataclysm, the likelihood is that it isn't.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

How to you draw that conclusion?

Feat threads on the internet where the stars were described as light, or something like that. I'd have to find it.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

 So any other God encountered could also be. 

True, but for this to work, again we need to have some conceits. If anything, Moorcock's cosmology is paralleled in current DC Cosmology, with the Sphere of the Gods. There are tiers and levels, but essentially, ranks within the Lords of the Higher Worlds.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

And what we can see, can calc'd. Star Trek may have lots of things that break physics, but we can still work out what shields can withstand, weapon output etc.

This is a strawman argument, yet again. At this minute you're hitting the straw donkey with a stick and getting the odd sweet. But as a whole, you keep missing the mark. And the reason for it is - 

We were not talking hard science fiction, but generic science fiction or even space opera. But because it is science fiction, some of the technology will (emphasis mine) not work according to understood laws of physics. It does not mean the whole setting just kicks science in the knackers and calls it a day. Rather the reverse actually. We don't see Captain Picard swimming through space, not worried about vacuum, or floating off a cliff unafraid of dying.

In fact, the laws of physics are foremost on their mind usually. This tells us that we can trust the setting to obey some of the laws of physics, allowing again, certain core conceits. 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

The writers of all such series are inconsistent with their facts and For instance according to Star Trek TOS the shields can withstand the force of a thousand cobalt bombs

This is another problem you're having, just because someone says it, does not make it true. It could easily be hyperbole, 

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Now according to real world physics, photon torpedes are more powerful tan cobalt bombs.

Right this is another issue you're having. What is a cobalt bomb, and what is its yield? If its output is that of a gas fire, then yeah a photon torpedo has better yield. We can also calculate the output of a photon torpedo due to the amount of matter and anti-matter in a given warhead. We can draw this conclusion from various other canon sources. Thus we build a more complete picture of the setting and its capabilities.

You are just pulling out random spurious facts, without context, or analysis. This is a core tenet over at SB. We need details in order to draw a conclusion. For instance Janeway in Voyager said they could destroy a small moon. Well bully for them. Didn't help the Ent-D much in the episode where it did not have enough torps to destroy an asteroid. Context, and analysis is paramount.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Ah no. It based on real world physics. E=mc^2 means that the total energy an object can contain is based on it's mass. Actually, , what it really means is that mass and gravity are properties of energy but that more complex that we need here. 

The relevant point is that, according to the laws of physics, for an object of a given mass there is a maximum amount of energy your can get out of it. Period. Any Sci-Fi ship that gets more than that is breaking the laws of physics (as we know them), and that means being subjective in which laws you with to enforce. And once you do that, you are comparing apples and oranges because you're not operating by the same rules.

It's like have a baseball team play a game against a football team. Both are games, both played by teams, both keep score, both involve people running around a field, both involve people throwing and catching a ball, but they operate under fundamentally different rules.

Now if you want to try and judge such a game you have to dice which rules to use and which to discard, for every point of conflict that crops up. So it ends up being less about the settings and more about the preferences and biases of the one making the decisions. And it becomes more so the less the two setting have in common. You can't prove anything becuase you don't have a common set of rules to use to prove your points. It all arbitrary.

While this is laudable, if the item has a technobabble approach behind it, we can work out minimum yield, and then analysis based on feats / texts the maximum yield. But to do that we need data.

7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

But the question is not if one of the other is dominant but if they even exist. And it's not so easy to resolve. There are times in the Elric books when Strobminger is not powerful, and there are times when the Lord of Law and Chos do not exist.

This is true. But if we're actually doing an multiverse Elric game, then we have to maintain the conceit that they do.

7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

We also don't know if the deities in LOTR are more powerful than those of Moorcock. Considering that both the Young Kingdoms and Middle Earth are allegedagly both previous incarnation of our own Earth a case could even be made that Stormbringer is Melkior.

We know that in LoTR that the stars are not really stars. So we know as a fact that they are not more powerful. Feats from the series tell us this. Now if i was evil, as i am also including the Mythos I might make Eru, Nyarly or Azathoth.

10 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Which is a fine route. But again, even in Moorcock's own timeline there was a time before and after the Lord of Law and Chaos, and beings more powerful than either (or both) of them. One being wiped out all of the Lord of Law and Chaos. 

Also true. But Lords of Chaos or Order can be made.

12 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

LOL! If you went by real world physics you couldn't use any of the ships. It's all cherry picking. If you didn't play fast and loose with real world physics 99%+ of sci-fi ships just don't work. The few that do work put sevre limits on a game. So you have to ignore a lot of real physics. The problem is the selection process. 

This is actually false. Sure some of the stuff breaks physics, but that does not mean it all does. And what we can see, can calc'd. Star Trek may have lots of things that break physics, but we can still work out what shields can withstand, weapon output etc.

15 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Case in point, one site went to great lengths to show the limits as to how powerful a Trek Photon torpedo could be based on the E=mc^2 formula. Now the math behind it was perfectly correct. But, their conclusion that Star Wars weapon was therefore much better as the listed energies levels were much higher than those of a photorp blatantly ignore the fact that the very same E=mc^2 formula would prevent such energy levels, or the fact that if Star Wars weapon were as powerful as listed, all those stray shots and near misses would devastate any planet that got caught in the crossfire. 

This particular calculation you were talking was using EU Lore, so this statement is very much a misnomer, and somewhat of a strawman argument. EU Wars uses hypermatter, which is IIRC energy drawn from hyperspace, a.k.a zero-point energy. This put EU Wars as a Kardeshev III civilisation, Disney Wars is same as Trek - a K2 civ. Whereas EU Time Lords are a IV verging on a V. TV Time Lords are more-or-less a 3-4.

It all boils down to know your lore, and feats which you can use to interpret your outcome.

7 minutes ago, Nick J. said:

I object y'honor! Just because some comic book guys mashed up Conan and Elric, dinnae make it canon!

D'know what is even worse? Arioch is a servant of Shuma-Gorath.

29 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

 

So did you write up any of these translations? Like I would love to see the PF Ultimate Magic and Deep Magic in BRP terms, as well as the Witchcraft RPG (always been a fan of Witchcraft and Armegeddon). 

It was purely done from a narrative perspective, or some very form of simplified game angle.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Actually it's quite revelant. What you have here are a lot of situations of unstoppable force meets immovable object. In LOTR a key element is that the One Ring could not be destroyed by any other means than by that which it was wrought. Now maybe Strombringer as a weapon forged to slay gods could destroy the ring, but maybe it isn't as powerful in Middle Earth as Sauron is, and thus his ring. THere are stories where Elric goes to another plane in the mutiverse and Stormbringer loses most or all of it's powers. Then, there is the matter of timing. Do the Lord of Law and Chaos exist during the time of Middle Earth,or does it happen before that, or even after they were all killed off?

That's why I brought up the apples and oranges thing\, and why the Strombringer issue isn't easy at all. The situation could be interpreted just about any way a GM wants to depending just how he decides to fit the various aspects of each setting together.  

I referred to whether Law or Chaos was dominant one or more posts back as to whether SB had any powers. Also immovable object vs unstoppable force; we're not playing friggin' Exalted. It is reasonably easy to resolve.....now if you wanted to make it complicated then we could go this route. Are the Valar Lords of Chaos or Order in disguise? Now that would really throw a cosmic monkey spanner in the old theories

Personally, i wouldn't go that route, and keep all the deities from each setting as being less powerful than the Lords of the Higher Worlds.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Here is another example. Compare Superman with the Hulk. Which one is stronger? Now most people would probably say Superman, and when Superman was pre-crisis Superman this was pretty much shown to be true. But, in what part of the multiverse? Can someone be as strong as Superman in the Marvel Universe? Could the Hulk become stronger in the DC universe? 

Now there are three Superman expy's in Marvel - one is Gladiator, Hyperion, and the last is Sentry. There were like all things Marvel different versions depending on the parallel world.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

For example, consider Elric vs Conan. Now in my view Elric pretty much outclasses Conan across the board in every category except physical strength, but Stormbringer compensates for that. Yet most Conan fans probably wouldn't agree.

This actually happened in canon.

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, but it can be a major point of contention. There are some sites that "compare" Star Wars to Star Trek to "prove" that the ships Star Wars have better tech. Now they use real world math and physics to show the limits of Star Trek technology, but then conveniently ignore those same math and physics when dealing with ships Star Wars (i.e. if the hulls are of neutronium then whenever a ship crash lands on a planet it causes an extinction level event (just fly close to a planet might do it), and that Coruscant couldn't exist)

Real world physics is a rule on SB forums

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/attention-versus-forum-the-versus-forum-rules-guide-book-v1-0-has-arrived-read-it-now.431674/#VFR

I would direct you to rule 9. This does not mean people don't cherry pick facts, or evidence, but we do strive to ensure that we obey the rules, The staff are quite hot on this too, ensuring we members obey the rules. In fact you'll find the feat threads in Technical some of the best out there, we calc everything, and are constant pedants

11 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

It's not so easy. Remember in LOTR not even dragon fire could destroy it so it is protected. The question is which one is more powerful, and also what is permitted on that plane of existence. . And that is where things get tricky. In several of the stories Stormbinger's power varies on different planes of existence. Plus you kinda mixing apples and oranges. 

Yes, but then it no longer BRP, is it? 

And honestly for what you seem to want to do here, something like a narrative, diceless RPG such as Amber, or Lords of Gossamer and Shadow might be a better fit. 

It might not require traits, but they would help. BTW, Superworld had something along those lines, as do some other BRP related games. 

You seem to be missing the point. That is only ONE interpretation of how it could play out. Someone could easily do up a version where the outcome was completely different. It's hard to quantify thing objectively because there is little common ground or data to really work with. 

 

One key thing here is that it really boils down to how you decide to interpret things, and then you have to hope your players will accept that interpretation. You see with a standard multiverse, that isn't an issue because the author/GM gets to control all the other worlds. But with crossovers people already have an idea of the places they are going to and the characters you are using. 

Okay on lunch and replying on tablet.

1. There is no apples or oranges, ermm..I meant spoon. I did mention about whether that realm is order, chaos or balance dominant. Quite frankly dragon fire is irrelevant, that is kind of like the Judge from Buffy that cannot be harmed by any weapon. At which point she shoots him with an RPG esque weapon. 

2. Correct, but that is one method.

3. Using LoG is my preferred multiverse engine game anyway, and all too easy. I want this to be a little bit of a challenge ya'know.

4. Traits I think will become necessary to add LoG elements, but keep the game sane. Otherwise we'd have Superman in Stars Wars or Star Trek in short order.

5. Crossovers. Dude I post primarily on Spacebattles, where SB in threads still happen, and other franchises are thrown into others just to screw with canon. We even did mechas in Stargate, just 'cos no one had ever done it. Putting franchises together and working outcomes out is what we do there. If you are not member go join. It is a hoot.

16 minutes ago, Marcus Bone said:

Sort of... 

A) on a personal note I quit a job, got a pretty full on contract and put my time into my SB website (see below)

One thing that really hit me going through this process (here and on the SB facebook site) is that everyone has a different idea of what an updated version would look like.

Never say, never, but at the moment we can call it 'paused'

Marcus

Well on the Magic World link below feel free to join the discussion about a combined D100 Elric

Basically using D100 stuff only, make a combined setting. Thought experiment, and for fun. May turn it into its own thread at some point too.

39 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Except Stormbringer couldn't harm a ward-pacted demon, and the One Ring is indestructible save from throwing it into Mount Doom. See the paradox?

Yes but nothing forces you to use EU stuff. Lucas generally ingored it and Dsiney certiany won't pay attention it. 

Yes and that touches upon what was metntioned earlier. Super great stuff is only super great untilone of the writers decides to give it a weakness.Like Captain America's shield, indestructable for decades, then it got detroyed, a few times. 

Not so simple. Sources will contradict each other and be changed. When I way young Marvel had firmly established that Captain America was at the peak of natural human strength. Then some time back they retconned that to slightly superhuman strength. And that's jkust with one soruce (Marvel Comics). Expand outwards from that and it gets even more convoulted, and you will have to decide how it all works every time you add something new. 

I think you got your work cut out for you. First off how will you handle characters crossing over from one game system to another? Do you convert all the PKs over to the new system or convert the new stuff to the same system the PKs are using. Either way you will have some system specific stuff to work out. Basically it highlight exactly why bringing in the multiverse to Elric would have been a bad idea for the core RPG. I think it much easier and probably better to bring in the alternate world gradually and deal with changes in small pieces so you can see how things work out and adapt along the way. 

 

With crossovers it is very easy for one character to completely overpower the characters in another setting and ruin it for the players and fans of that setting. If Elric kills Godzilla, destroys the One Ring, or Kill Darth Vader it will have major ramifications on those other settings and stories. The whole sage of the One Ring pretty much loses all of it's depth and importance if Elric pops up and chops it in half, or if Superman shows up at Minas Tirith, and it makes all the LOTR characters look like mooks. 

On tablet so replying to each point individually is tricky.

Now the Stormbringer issue is easy, can its inherent chaos overcome those of the local gods? Now RQII has bits that can help, honestly it doesn't matter. Is the universe one of order or chaos? If the latter, and the ring is not protected by a god or lord of chaos it can be hacked in half.

Now crossovers from other systems are not that hard. For instance BRP angels are around peak human, based on stats. But I would take principles, not the figures. This way you get a more narratively driven system.

Or convert everything to the multiverse system being used. But that would require using something a lot of BRP folk hate, traits. Which quite frankly you're going to need, primarily so you are not stuck when switching genres  e.g. arriving from a sword and sircery setting to a space opera.

As for dealing with other franchises, go watch youtube Batman vs Darth Vader, the alt version. If you have not already. That is a gd example. 

Has this stopped or is it ongoing?

1 hour ago, Atgxtg said:

It depends on just what you want to do with it and how you plan to approach it. You will need to decide what sort of limits you want to improve and how the various genres will interact. For instance can a powerful superhero who can survive a 100 story fall from a scraper in the comics do so in another setting? Or can a Batman or Daredevil type character actually dodge bullets? The thing when mixing settings and characters is that just what works in one setting doesn't in another. You wind up having to make a lot of decisions and judgment calls, and there ususally isn;'t a clear cut "right way" to go with things. For instance, can Excalibur cut Superman? How about a Lightsaber? Can a lightsaber cut through Excalibur? How about adamntium?  Is Stormbringer more powerful than the One Ring? There are no clear cut answers and it mostly boils down to interpretation and GM judgment calls.  But whatever way to decide to go with things expect there to be fallout in other areas. 

As far as the BGB goes, not all powers are equal. regardless of the point costs, and freely mixing them will lead to people eithing being outmatched or everybody cherry picking those abilties that work best. 

I think you need to define you multiverse and then see what fits it. The work up what you need for a primary setting, and keep most of the other stuff rare. Otherwise you could have things fall apart quickly. A high level fighter in D&D might be tough but he can't stand up to a tank. So if you have a character who can stand up to a tank, it makes the high level fighter not such a big thing anymore.  So the more you mix stuff the more you have to decide how to keep all the players relevant to the game, and the more pitfalls you will need to watch out for.  

Well Stormbringer pretty much cuts anything from what I recall, so I would not see an issue with it chopping the One Ring in half. Lightsaber, not so much. There was a time they cut anything, but in the EU (now non-canon) there was loads of stuff to counter it. Same for Adamantium from the original X-Men movies. It cut anything, but in Wolvie Origins it had trouble with katana's.

Anyway slight rant over. lol

Okay so the simple way to do it would be use some external sources, e.g: https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Lords_of_Order

In the end I decided that would be too easy. So in some ways it is part project, and thought exercise, in that I can only use D100 products (or as much as possible) to make the multiverse, but it can come from any source. However changing names is allowed.

So with that in mind I came to the idea is that ll of the settings, BRP, CoC, Mythras, etc are all part of the same multiverse. To start with I have used the planar denizen descriptions from Raiders of R'yleh, for simplicity, and kind of got this idea-

Outer gods:  Outer Monstrosities from Raiders

Higher Ones: Archetypal Spirits from Raiders

At this point each and every one of the products have their own gods from here downwards, and their own spatial dimensions.

So CoC has Old gods which consists of Elder gods, and Old Ones. It also has a second set which are not as powerful: Great Ones, and Lesser Ones (Earth gods). These Earth gods consist of Deiwos (Old Ones from Dark Ages), Jinn (Invictus) and Olympians (I cheated and used Lovecraft's fiction here).

BRP has their own elder gods in the Elohim from Val-Du-Loup, and their own lesser ones in the form of angels and demons. Although there is no reason celestials does not also include deities, as listed in the description.

What do you think so far?

6 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

No Elric is the story about the character Elric, the last Emperor of Melnibone who (spoiler) turned against Chaos at fogut them at the end of the world.  Traveling to different planes is something that he sometimes did but it wasn't what he was about. I've been to the beat, but it doesn't mean my life is about the sea. Yes, that is actually addressed in some of the latter supplements too. But again, that not what Elric was about.

True, but the thing about Elric was that in order to fight them it was not something that could be accomplished on one plane, an eternal champion. 

6 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Depnds on what game system you want to use. I'd suggest looking over the Basic Role Playing general forum a bit and look for threads where people adapted BRP to another setting. I had some stuff on a Amber campaign (another multiverse) that I was working on. 

Any recommendations for which part to use?

7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

Yes, but that's not the game system's fault, is it? 

You original comment was that Elric didn't cover Moorcoock multiverse in detail. It isn't, true, but it didn't need to nor did it claim to be trying to. You can't hold it against the designers for not creating the game that for not doing something that somebody wants to do 30 years later. It is like complaining that your 1980s touch-tone telephone doesn't have cellular service. 

If you want to know how to do a multiverse setting with it, that's a different topic. 

Elric is by definition a multiverse game, he travelled to different planes. That is what he did.

7 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

If you want to know how to do a multiverse setting with it, that's a different topic. 

Now that I will start a thread for in a moment. In this forum or another?

6 minutes ago, Atgxtg said:

That would depend on what sort of multiverse game you are trying to run. What works good for Superheroes might not work so well for a WWII setting. Sometimes high pwered isn't the best or preferred choice for a setting. 

Like in Elric, or Hawkmoon - rules change from universe to universe. Same as in Lords of Gossamer, all of a sudden your powers might fail. Technology may no longer work. It is why in Amber all the nobles carried swords. Physics can only change so much that sticking someone with something pointy always works.

Just now, Simlasa said:

Not that I doubt there's a way to make the three arrow thing work in Superworld... but I generally don't want that sort of thing in my gritty sword & sorcery game.

That's kind of the point, if I am doing a multiverse game you're playing big damn heroes, a planeswalker, not someone who is easily cut down.

On 2/15/2019 at 7:55 AM, Tywyll said:

I am working on a campaign that I'll hopefully get to run in the next few months. It's primarily non-Glorantha Runequest. I'm looking for a magic system to fill the void of Sorcery, but I'm not finding anything that quite fits what I want. So I've been looking through all the power systems for BRP that I know of. These are the ones I have found or have at least heard of. Are there any I have missed? This can include somebody's homebrew that's on the web or whatever.

BRP
Wizardry
Sorcery (Also Elric Magic and Magic World Magic, including Necromancy)
Psionics
Superpowers
Mutations
Enlightened Magic
Magic Kung-fu (Swords of Cydoria)
Biomancy (Swords of Cydoria)
Witchcraft (I think there is a monograph about this? Don't know if I'm getting confused or how its different from any other system)

Stormbringer/Elric/Magic World
Summoning/Binding
Eastern Magic

Runequest
Battle/Spirit Magic
Divine Magic
Sorcery
Enchantment/Summoning
Sandy's Sorcery
RQ4 Sorcery
RQG Sorcery 

Call of Cthulhu
Mythos Magic 

MRQ/Legends
Rune Magic (Battle Magic)
Divine Magic
Sorcery (1st and 2nd edition)
Dragon Magic
Necromancy
Blood Magic
Elementalism

RQ6/Mythras
Folk Magic
Divine Magic
Sorcery
Mysticism
Classic Fantasy Magic

White Dwarf
Demon Summoning

Revolution d100
Various power systems 

 

Okay you have the same problem I had. What I did was define magic, and then types of casting and then players could pick any one to suit.

Sorcery (Excerpt taken from Elric)

This is the ability to control the energies of the Multiverse and, through that control, create powerful effects. As such, it has no allegiance to either the powers of Law or Chaos, and indeed is used by both in their eternal struggles. However, magic is is dangerous to sanity, soul and life.

Invocation (Mythras): It uses formulae, both written and mentally envisaged, to achieve magical effects.  These variables can be the nature and origin of the magic energy to be evoked, any transformation of that energy, any scaling of the level of energy, any modulation or changing of the energy while it is in use, the location of the caster, the location of the target, the nature of the target, the duration the energy will be evoked, the manner by which the spell ends, any safeguards put in place by the caster, and more.

Incantation (Pathfinder Ultimate Magic and Deep Magic): There is a universal truth few spell casters would deny, incredible power exists in spoken words. They belong to a class of truly awe inspiring powers beyond ordinary spells and can be very powerful and frequently create effects beyond those of normal spells. It was a framework for understanding and altering reality based on words. They arrange these words of power to cast powerful and diverse incantations known as word spells. It should come as no surprise that most obsessively learn as many words of power as their minds can comprehend.

Scientific: This will be a mix of Sorcerer's Apprentice and scientific magic from Hawkmoon.

 Weave (Witchcraft RPG): To work magic, one must be able to weave magic energy into the right matrix. If no outside force is interfering, the desired effect will take place.

Then make a cost system per area the player wants.

So you could have-

Common Magic, Battle Magic, Enchantment, Necromancy, Evocation, Conjuration etc.

I also have Deep Magic which has been named Chaos magic, obviously.

Sphere magic a la Mage the Awakening, Ascension, and Pathfinder

Each would be priced differently per spell, or for any spell in the category. I tend to be a bit more freeform / Diceless which allows this kind of loosey goosey play style.

@Atgxtg If you want more ready to find detail on Moorcock stuff, I recommend going to spacebattles.com, go into vs and search on Stephen King vs. There is a plethora of detail in there, like tons of it. If you cannot find it, shoot me a PM and I'll give you a link.

Yeah I know he didn't do Elric with Arrow crossovers in mind, but like I said in the CoC thread over at rpg.pub, I want my heroes / characters empowered to do crazy things that are impossible in the real world like shoot three arrows through the eye of a deep one and kill it dead.

I don't want depowered heroes, but empowered. If you know what I mean?

Just now, soltakss said:

In Revolution D100, Shoot Three Arrows at Once could be a Stunt that just applies a Penalty to the attack chance and allows all three arrows to be shot.

Really....cool.

Thing is I love the metaphysics and the fluff, and other stuff, in D100 systems but until you have said that, they have lacked the ability to give me the type of games I want to play. It has resulted in me doing Lords of Gossamer type games, which are incredibly high level, but are not so good at the low or intermediate type games. So you may have just solved my problem, assuming I can understand the system.....time to go visit Drivethru

@Atgxtg I think maybe perhaps what you say was true once....but not so much now. If you're doing a multiverse setting, it is pretty much like Faith said, "Go big or go home," kind of mentality. I want the cosmology explained, like they do in Pathfinder. But we need how the multiverse is put together, its gods, and its metaphysics. Sure that can change, or get more refined as time goes on. And that is totally fine.

As to the system thing, I suspect D100 would struggle with the tv series Arrow. i mean how would it cope with him shooting three arrows at once? At best I could see if a percentage divide three ways. But even so there would be a change he would miss. And the Green Arrow does not. Miss. Period. So short of him having like 300% in bow or something, not sure how this particular games engine would simulate that?

EDIT: Now I have just come across the Revolution stuff, so I my purchase that if I like the SRD stuff. I have a hankering of a full-on Elric / Eternal Champion type game using all the various magic systems from D100.