Austin

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Can a Wyter DI?

Maybe another way to think about this is that a wyter using its powers is a Divine Intervention? Given the scope involved, so much beyond what most mortal worshipers could achieve.

I remember an RQ3 adventure I was run through a few years back with a gift like these. I don't know the name of the module, unfortunately. We were hired by Barren/Barran/Baron? the Monster Slayer to go with him inside a huge eel--I think it's a sea god's pet, as someone with a few more percentage in Grognardia now I'd bet it was Magasta's--and help him get to its heart, where he'd stab it and go into the Hero Plane for the real fight. This was set in Corflu, during the Lunar occupation.

When the adventure ended we got spat out of the eel and some of us got funky changes to our characters. I don't remember the others (I bet my GM had a d100 table for it) but mine got webbed fingers, which gave him +20% to Swim rolls.

I really hope we get a reprint of the RQ3 stuff someday. I played through a good deal of material from it, but have no clue what actual modules we ran.

On 5/24/2019 at 3:33 PM, BlindPumpkin said:

This exact scenario is something that I think harms my interest in this new Glorantha, if that's the "canon" new interpretation of general rune magic and cult initiation. I always thought of Sartar as hard to tame because of the same reason Cimmeria is hard to tame; barbarian clans used to skirmishing all the time getting together will be a hellish fighting force. It never sounded to me that it was because Sartarite farmers could fly and cast lightning.

I think your understanding is the "canon" version (based on the text found and quoted by @Brootse above; thanks for finding the discussion I half-remembered). The book's explanation is poorly done. I've chosen to go with the more direct reading of the book's text (where "initated into X" means "I'm a game-Initiate and have Rune points") because I find it more fun to play that super magic-prevalent game. I believe canon is "initiated into X" means "lay member of X" unless otherwise specified.

On 5/24/2019 at 3:40 PM, PhilHibbs said:

I don't think many farmers will have Lightning. They will have Barntar magic, I think Barntar is an Orlanth subcult now, rather than Adventurous, although it's listed as an Associate Cult in the Orlanth writeup so I might be wrong. I think the distinction between a separate cult and a subcult is fairly shady in some cases.

I agree with you; my point (when directed toward my players) is that it's possible. This is also an element of my actual gameplay milieu, where my players tend to find playing the "Oh I'm a clan guy doing clan stuff" boring, and playing as classic murder-hobo-thugs more interesting. Together we find a blend of the two. So what I emphasize to my players isn't "Everyone knows Lightning in Sartar," but rather "You don't know who knows Lightning in that tavern." Might be no one, might be half the room--I'm sure that in the last twenty years of Gloranthan history, the number of Orlanthi learning Lightning instead of Bless Crops has increased due to the Lunar invasion (although you'd really rather have both).

25 minutes ago, RHW said:

The literature does strongly suggest that basically ALL (abstract ALL) Sartarites over the age of about 13 are initiates, usually Orlanth for the men, Ernalda for the women. The fact that Harmast hasn't been initiated by 18 is seen as a horrible and strange thing, part of the oppression of Lokimoki. So it's easy to assume that the initiation rates in Heortling society are much, much higher than they are in Peloria. I feel like in Peloria, initiation is reserved for the elite and the vast majority are laymembers.

I agree with this written interpretation, and I tend to take it that far (or further) in my games. That being said, I recall a conversation on these forums last year where I believe Jeff or someone else on the Dev team confirmed that "most responsible adults are initiates" (somewhere in RQG--can't find it presently) really means "Lay Members." Which yes, is super confusing. I don't recall that thread's title, but I believe the context was "So everyone on Glorantha is a game-term Initiate now?" and discussing the change from most adults are lay members. So basically the authors using "initiates/initiating" in multiple senses, which is honestly a right pain in the arse. I understand the author's intentions to be that "initiating into adulthood" doesn't mean gaining Rune points.

However, I do play My Glorantha as you've described; almost every person is a game-Initiate, with Rune points and magic powers. Most are of less adventures-relevant deities, like Barntar the Plow God or Uralda the Cow Goddess, but nearly everyone has a little Rune magic. I do this for a variety of reasons, one of which is so I can tell my players "don't go murder-hoboing into a tavern brawl if you don't want to deal with Orlanthi farmers chucking Lightning."

Related to that thread, IIRC, were discussions about how the adventurer creation rules don't reflect average folks, in contrast to RQ3's creation rules (I think?) which were meant to generate normal schmucks who became adventurers and major figures. This is even true of the "normal" occupations like Farmer, Fisher, etc. My understanding is that a random Orlanthi farmer is not created by slapping the Farmer occupation skills on (although I suggest that the base skill% + Homeland modifier is probably relevant for reflecting Gloranthan realities).

8 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Naming a module, telling exactly what and where and when with a bit of how... I get a bit queasy at this point and I don't exactly mean my stated aversion to spoilers. It seems wrong. Is it just me? Again, not a flame just a valid question.

I feel like ultimately, here on the forum it's better to just state the source, rather than imply it. In part this is because most of these adventures are very old and an interested player may have browsed them already, but also because if the person asking has never heard of River of Cradles or Rainbow Mounds or wherever before, then they may not get where you're referencing obliquely. Further, my gut says that the folks more likely to make their way to the forum asking specific questions are GMs, not players, so adventure spoilers aren't as significant.

Now, if we'd just had some huge adventure pack come out with some really surprising and interesting twists and traps, I do feel your concerns would be really relevant in the same way that worry over spoilers was going around online shortly after the release of Avengers: Endgame. 

14 hours ago, BalazarLightson said:

In Pavis your local shaman could make a spirit bundle charm for you, one use magic bundle, it keeps longer than an Alchemists potion as long as you bring it back to him on Wild Day of Fertility Week each Dark Season for spirit appeasement. Once you use the spirit a small fee will let him summon another to fill it's place.

Could you elaborate on this? I don't know of something in RQG which involves a spirit bundle. Is this from OoP sources? It sounds interesting. Thanks!

11 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

The obvious gap is *known* ancestors. In  a tribal community, everyone is somewhere related to everyone who came before... Which would include tribal shamans, priests, heroes etc.

Nice spot. Even moving past the obvious "I call the spirit of Sartar/Tada/famous ancestor X/Grandfather Mortal" cheesiness (which I feel a GM probably wouldn't allow unless the adventurer's big and bad enough to actually get those folks' attention) surely the spirit of the shaman who initiated you into adulthood and died a few years later would be someone you know, know well, and who would be a pretty significant spirit. I suppose for some you could just futz the Ancestral Summons table to give a 4-5D6 Friendly, Neutral, or Malign spirit (maybe that shaman's pissy about getting woken from his nap).

Another question that came up for me was, don't other cultures worship ancestors too? Maybe not in the full shaman path that Daka Fal does, but it suits my imagination (although I got no clue if it exists in canon-Glorantha) to think that matrilineal Esrolia, for example, has Earth priestesses casting Summon Specific Ancestor to call upon the great mothers of the past for advice and succor. Would ancestor worship exist in Esrolia or Sartar as a sub-cult of one of the big gods maybe?

16 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Hallucinate... Possibly more fun than the Befuddle option, but need to be mindlinked... Turning their allies into Broos would be fun

IIRC Hallucinate only works on its own caster (although it'd give you a nice quick getaway).

13 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Just flight the Humakti.

Not sure which resistance roll would be better, POW v POW, or vs STR...

1 RP versus 2 or 3 RP depending on the murderbot's SIZ. But yeah, POW v STR is still... iffy, if they've got a Strength spell up. Probably worse, although failure doesn't hurt as badly.

Overall I feel like the best answer is still trying to just overwhelm the murderbot with quantity and variety of attacks. Spirit Combat while an air elemental tosses him up in the sky and archers fill him with arrows. Toss in some Lightning or a Thunderbolt for good measure, and don't let him get within MOV of anyone you want to see tomorrow.

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

With Peace, I'm not even sure you'd be allowed the pointing or laughing.

Why not? You're not effected by the spell. It effects everyone but Rune masters IIRC and again IIRC, to gain the spell you must first be a Rune Priest, ergo...

But it's definitely bad form to point and laugh. Definitely bad form.

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Well, I was only going by what was presented - and Shield/Countermagic wasn't presented

That's fair. I was making an assumption not explicit in the post, that murderbot.Humakt.exe would have some sort of antimagic bubble already up. If you manage to get them with a Befuddle, good on ya! (Though if they're a Rune Lord it might be tough... POW 21 resistance is no joke.)

4 hours ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Not to mention in the RAW as far as I can tell there is literally no reason a Humakti being attacked by a Spiti in spirit combat couldn't fight it with his iron sword with truesword and basically annihilate it instantly.

I missed this, too. There's some dickering available about the actual numbers, but yeah most spirits just don't have enough POW to take more than two swings to slay. Still, I feel like a swarm of spirits might have a better shot than a swarm of trollkin--can't parry/dodge the ghost.

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Secondly, Flight... either on yourself, or on the Humakti - what can't hit you can't damage you.

Or cast Flight on the Humakti's buffed-up sword? Though I don't recall if the "can you cast Dullblade/other spell without overcoming POW" argument a while back ever actually was resolved... If there's a spirit in the sword, you'd definitely have to overcome that spirit. But I don't think you'd need to overcome a Countermagic or Shield on the Humakti himself? (Just maybe overcome his POW.)

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Fourthly - Peace.... almost as much fun as Befuddle - but 15 minutes (and, RAW can't be resisted!) Just in time to have all their hard-earned preparation go to waste

Only almost as fun? Knocks out everyone but Rune Masters from aggressive stuff. Also, I read the text as implying that it's a bit of a pain in the arse to get the spell (IIRC from book and forums become a High Priestess of Ernalda or Eiritha then go to the Paps and learn Peace from the Three Bean Circus). Apart from difficulty of access yeah, it's easily the most OP Rune spell in the game.

2 minutes ago, molmedoz said:

With time when a spirit become stronger, shouldn't the spirit CHAR increase?

The shaman ability "Expanded Presence" gives 3D6 "temporary" CHA to the fetch, explicitly for the purpose of learning more spirit magic spells (p. 360). This CHA doesn't increase the shaman's skill modifiers, SC damage, etc. It doesn't say if this CHA affects the fetch's SC damage, but I think the section's intent is that it does not. As far as I can tell, a shaman's fetch is intended to be stuck at the CHA rolled when it is made (but houseruling a new ability which increases its CHA, in order to increase the fetch's SC damage, spirits controlled, etc. seems reasonable to me).

So I've been fiddling a bit with the Summon Ancestor spell in our RQG game (and to a lesser extent with its adjacent spells) and it seems both powerful and fun to use, but also a bit incomplete. Thus I figured it might be interesting to see how others have used the spell, and if y'all feel similar holes exist in the description, and how they've been filled.

One of the first things I've done is, at the start of play, let an adventurer who knows Summon Ancestor have D6 ancestors generated using the charts on p. 342-343 of the Core. To my mind this represents past use of the Summon Ancestor spell, which can then be called up if Summon Ancestor is stacked with Summon Specific Ancestor per those spell rules.

For me, generating some of these random ancestors was a big revelation. Over time, even just an initiate of Daka Fal generates a huge pool of different ancestors they can call upon, giving access to a wide variety of spirit magic spells for 2 RP (well, for friendly ancestors). Although there are some limitations involved, often substantial, it still introduces a great deal of strategic flexibility for the adventurer.

That being said, there are several gaps in the spell's material as written:

• Ancestors are described as being able to engage in spirit combat, but have neither a skill percentage assigned nor a CHA characteristic to roll for determining SC damage. INT can sometimes be relevant too--for instance, ancestors probably possess INT and therefore require a 3-POW Binding Enchantment to be contained--but this isn't as important for spirit mechanics. My solution was to approximate the ancestor's POW roll on the Ancestral Summons table to the POW and CHA rolls for random spirits on p.165 of the Bestiary in order to determine the ancestor's CHA, and then determine SC damage as usual.
• Additionally, there's no Spirit Combat skill rating attributed to ancestor spirits. I assigned such spirits a Spirit Combat skill of POWx3% because they're the spirits of random mortals from stickpickers to shaman-priests. A POWerful ancestor (5D6+6, average 23-24, SC 69-72%) still maybe doesn't have the high percentage it ought, but this felt more representative than using POWx5% for unremarkable Uncle Joe who's spirit has POW 12 (max of 1D6+6). As far as I can tell, there's no actual generic entry for ancestor spirits in the Bestiary. Ghosts have a flat Spirit Combat 70%, but that didn't feel right as an approximation of an ancestor spirit due to a ghost's malign nature.
• I'm not certain what to do if a randomized ancestor's spirit magic is rolled twice. My solution, for variable spells, was to roll 2D6-5 again and add the new points atop the old. In one case, this resulted in a spirit which knew Heal 9 (which was interesting, but is basically fine). I think I've been rerolling non-variable spells.
• I'm not certain how to handle ancestral spirits which know enchantment spells (like the Magic Point Enchantment, random spell 52-54 on the D100 table). For the moment if a player brings it up, I'm thinking to handle it that if the caster sacrifices POW in worship of the summoned ancestor, the ancestor would then use some or all of that POW casting the relevant enchantment. Alternately I suppose you could use Control Ancestor Spirit on one, and force it to cast the enchantment, but even doing this on a malign ancestor feels super sketchy and Chaotic to me...
• Finally, ancestor spirits who have Rune points only know Daka Fal Rune magic; but most Daka Fal rune magic deals with summoning more ancestors, or manipulating ancestor spirits. This feels... odd, to me? For the moment, I'm ruling that such an ancestor can use spells like Spirit Guardian and Spirit Melding upon its summoner, and the result is effectively as if the summoner had cast the spell himself. Or maybe an ancestor's Discorporation can target willing mortals, to bring them into the Spirit World? I could see myself varying up the cult from just Daka Fal, depending on the caster's culture. For example, a Bison Tribe worshiper of Daka Fal might call forth an ancestor who worshiped Waha, Eiritha, Storm Bull, or even perhaps Orlanth.

Does anyone else have tips for utilizing ancestor spirits? Felt there are gaps in the spell description too, and filled them another way?

7 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

On the other hand, it has one of, if not the, best religious magic systems and I love how everyone can use magic. So since I am using it to play in my home setting, and shamanism has never been a thing there, really. Druids are about as close as you come and they are basically just Earth worshippers. 

So do you use the actual RQ cults then, or do you have your own? I've been reading prior posts as using the same cults in the Core (though probably with setting differences due to your remarks in passing about shamanism).

Also, while Befuddle can be stopped for a round with some Countermagic or a already-present Shield spell, another option might be to toss a spirit at the oncoming Humatki murderbot and then cast Mobility and just flee until the spirit gets him, or until he has to stop and cast Spirit Block (if he's got any RP left...).

If we're talking shamans and Rune masters, I'm sure at that point a shaman of Daka Fal probably knows at least one or two beefy, friendly ancestors to sic on warriors (in addition to his fetch and what he's got bound and present).

1 minute ago, Bill the barbarian said:

we are talking egregious munchkinerry here, right?

Yes, but I'm of the belief that we must be as RAW as possible in munchkinnery--that way those nasty no-fun GMs can't naysay us!

On 5/20/2019 at 9:03 AM, Tywyll said:

I don't use shaman in my game for various reasons, but I like their abilities and want to use them in game.

Just wondering, what are these reasons? Knowing what you're avoiding might help in futzing with how this Road to Rune Mastery works.

44 minutes ago, Joerg said:

First of all, have a supporter multispell Dampen Damage.

No multispell in RQG. And, there's a decent chance the cast speed will be too slow. 1 Round + 2SR/MP. Further, it only minimizes the weapon damage, not "bonuses for special successes or magical or damage bonuses" (RQG 394). So the Truesword damage, the Boon of Kargan Tor, and the opponent's mundane damage bonus would be unaffected.

44 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Even that is more than you would want to parry with enchanted dwarven Iron Shields and dwarven Iron Plate (or chain) ... Use illusions or phantoms of yourself synchronized to yourself - keep them intersecting with your body until you are real close, then separate. ... Get Draconic Prehealing.

Fairly sure these are all undeveloped enough in the current rules to not be applicable in a rules minmax discussion (though grognard-sourced games will of course Vary). Notably sorcery's illusions require constant focus to move, and Rune illusions only move at MOV 1 per RP of Illusory Motion.

2 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Wait, does boar fat stack with armor?

Rhino Fat only appears on the Family Heirlooms table (p.88) and thus has no market cost, but adds 1 AP and I believe does stack with any other AP sources. Also, just checked Bless Woad, and you can't wear physical armor during it (although it appears to stack with other spells. So Woad 21 + Protection 21 + Shield 21 is on the table).

2 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Iron large shield 24 ap,

However, shields aren't made of metal according to RQG 218; they're only made of Hide, Wicker, and Wood. So, RAW, a Large Shield with half-again AP can't exist. (That being said off the rules-as-written argument I think you do have a point--get enough magical strength going on and you can probably carry a mundane shield which is way more sturdy than what's present in the rules.)

14 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

Definitely a flaw in BRP that offense outpaces defense so quickly.

Do your players every do strengthening enchantments on themselves?

Well, my players haven't reached this point yet, not the normal hit for 30+. And there's no strengthening enchantments in RQG (yet), nor have they gotten to doing enchantments in general. But I doubt such enchantments could keep up with the above-described Humakti.

IIRC, the generally best AP you could get should be something like: Large Shield (16) + iron plate armor (9) + Protection (let's say a RL with 21 CHA, so Protection 21 would be possible, albeit unlikely in an actual game) + Shield (CHA 21=RP, x2=42AP) = 67AP. I don't know of any other published modifiers which would stack--and it should be noted that this combination both requires finding a crazy big Protection, and reaching maximum human RP and spending all of that on a 15 minute spell. So entirely infeasible for actual play, whereas Hresht's examples are from actual play.

Maybe a solution would be to introduce a Rune spell which adjusts the dodge matrix--successes can dodge specials, etc.--or a "Trueshield" spell to double a shield's AP. I guess Trueshield for 1, or Earth Shield for 3?

40 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

My question, beyond Dispel Magic, what do the players do when they encounter a group of characters of equivalent power? How do they resist a hit doing 40-50 damage in one go?

Earth Shield if you got it. Pricy at 3RP, but infinite AP for the shield parries. Also dodging, but if they special or crit you're likely in trouble fast. But yeah, don't wanna be taking that damage and I don't think there's an equivalently-strong protection you can set up in advance, 

On 5/21/2019 at 3:46 AM, Tywyll said:

Just adds to it I would imagine. There are lots of threats out there with POWs higher than 21. It would mean that eventually Rune Levels are realistically the only threat to each other when it comes to magical attacks, but that is kind of the case now.

Do you think that is too strong? Of all the abilities, I think Magic Attack and Defense are some of the weakest. I hardly see many players sacrificing for more than a level or two of the power. 

Game-wise, I think this is reasonable. World-wise, I'm a little hesitant because RL Resistance is a god-given gift. I'm not sure it would stack with something internal to the RL. That being said, you could hand-wave it as "Lesser Resistance" and "Greater," or maybe once the RL gets Resistance they can take an extra geas or sac an extra attribute to bundle their previous Magic Defense in with the rest.

It's important to remember that RLs only resist with POW 21. And I feel like they probably aren't running around often with full POW 18+ on tap due to enchanting, DI, maxing out RP, etc. Even if they are, a few points of Magic Attack could give the vital advantage in a magical contest between RLs.

On 5/21/2019 at 3:46 AM, Tywyll said:

Where would you put Discorporation? 2-3 or 4?

Hrm. Probably 3 or 4, depending on how it's colored. I feel like the ability isn't inherently crazy--especially since theist characters aren't likely to have good skills in Spirit Travel, Spiritspeech, Spirit Lore, or Spirit Dance when they gain access to the Spirit World. If you phrase the fluff as "we can go visit the gods and pay homage in their world!" or "sort-of their world!", then this is definitely a tier 4 ability, and one which would be really important for a priest to have. Likely part of their magical role during worship services, like a defining feature in shaman-less Glorantha. In terms of raw power, I feel like it's probably around 2, maybe 3, until the adventurer's skills get good enough to use it properly.

On 5/21/2019 at 3:46 AM, Tywyll said:

Allied Spirit is a powerful spirit, but in general it is not that much more powerful than any bound spirit.

You get to mindlink the allied spirit in a way which is more powerful. You get to perform multiple actions per round without needing a Control (entity) or Command Cult Spirit spell cast, and without needing to take a full round off acting to give a new command. Your allied spirit can initiate into your cult and give you a second pool of Rune points. It's pretty strong.

However, if you'd like allied spirits to be earlier, maybe you could downgrade them for tier 2, and upgrade into the full mindlink and shared RP pool at tier 3?

On 5/21/2019 at 3:46 AM, Tywyll said:

So perspective RL masters a skill, worships, gains a free ability, sacrifices 3 POW for 2 extra abilities, takes a geese and then sacrifices 1 Dex for a third. Next time they Master a skill, they will need to sacrifice 2 attribute points for additional abilities (unless they immediately take a geese). 

That was my intention.

I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear on all of my confusions. Initially, I read your text as "Only Rune Lords can take geese" and that each time they master a skill, they get a free ability. Then in the same ceremony, they may sacrifice characteristics for abilities. They can't sacrifice any more characteristics (or gain more abilities) until they've mastered another skill (they aren't allowed to do the special ceremony until then). Once an adventurer is a Rune Lord with five skills mastered and T5 unlocked, they can undergo the ceremony whenever they choose. How accurate is this?

On 5/21/2019 at 3:46 AM, Tywyll said:

Quote

I think each cult should probably have its own set of abilities to choose from. ...

That's an interesting idea. Would require a tremendous amount of work though.

Yes. Yes it would...

47 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The major difference after this is that the Rune spell user is limited to 5km from their body, further requires more rune points spent at the casting. This effectively limits them to the Inner World as they have no means of finding (or the time) to reach a frontier and cross into a different region. I'd certainly allow the use of spirit travel (as it's 10%) to get somewhere particular, but the time limit is the problem unless extended.

I'd just like to note here that the 5km limit in the Rune spell was, I think, the seed of quite some confusion for my players and I because in setting a measurable distance, we understood the text to say the adventurer wanders as a discorporate spirit within 5km of their body in Glorantha. We did not understand this to mean that they had gone to the Spirit World. My understanding of the Shaman and Spirit World chapters was that such spaces can't really be defined in terms of measurement, and so I (and my players) haven't played that Discorporation pops the adventurer into the Spirit World. Although, if they found a Vortex or other spirit place, the discorporate adventurer could get sucked in.

I think this dissonance might be something to address and explain further in a future Rune Fixes or supplement.

2 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

And, that's why farmers don't go adventuring 😛

Or just learn Heal 1 and cast it 3 times during their usual whatever. But I digress; this isn't the thread to muddle through the economics and see if they feel reasonable.

17 hours ago, Joerg said:

Potion cost is ten times ingredient cost

Deviating a little here, but since @Iskallor's question was answered and I feel this thread's still a relevant place to ask... would you use this rule of thumb for RQG as well? I know monetary values are a lot higher in RQ2, but the general RQ economics still feels sketchy to me.

IIRC in the Alchemy entry the materials for a potion cost an adventurer 50L per point of potency, meaning they would be 500L per POT on that rule. I was thinking of eyeballing a value of 100L per POT for a completed potion on the market (plus and minus market conditions at GM discretion) in RQG. Which is still crazy expensive, really, based on the values of other items (a Heal 3 potion would cost 300L, and be worth five times the income of an entire Free household's yearly income!).

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

My comment was aimed at the idea that there needs to be a game balance...

And mine was looking for the POW a temple defense spell is cast at (p.288), not really looking at Wyter information. I don't see anything in the text which says that the POW backing those spells is the Wyter's POW; it sounds more like the god's POW itself than anything else based on the description of "ancient or historic temples" which "may well have 30+ points of defense because of its importance to the god."

To my mind, the "realist" approach would be that these spells are given by the god. They work automatically. No matter how strong you are, if you grab the sacred sword in the Temple of Humakt's sanctum, you're taking that Sever Spirit and you are dead (to draw from the example of temple defenses given in the text). 

In contrast, I'm thinking about coming from POW 21 on a game balance perspective, because this gives adventurers (or other sacred-site-raiding folks) a chance, albeit unlikely, to resist the spell. More of a chance than coming from effectively-infinite POW. Another alternative would be to use the wyter's POW as that backing the temple defense, but it sounds to me from the text that the POW comes from the god, not a wyter, because a very holy site with few worshipers still might have a great deal of POW bestowed for temple defenses.

Using POW 21 means that Rune Lords basically always have a 50/50 chance to shrug off those divine defenses, which I feel... conflicted about? It feels too easy, but at the same time giving a substantially developed character a 50/50 to either "save or die" or "save or suck" does still generate a substantial risk.

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I'm sorry - you've lost me there.....

Well, what do you suggest for a temple defense's effective POW then?