Austin

39 minutes ago, Joerg said:

when do you roll the stats for the baby? ... And what stats do the children have in their infancy and youth?

Personally, I'm not convinced this will come up often enough in a game to matter. If I reach the point where my players actually want to have a kid, pay/win favor to get a Bless Pregnancy, and possibly play as that child in the distant future, I'll have them mark what they Blessed on some paper and move on with our lives. 16 years of game play is a long time; get through that, then think about it.

I don't think child characteristics are relevant, honestly. GM may as well just hand-wave it. I assume it'd be either some gradiated nonsense where you gain points until adulthood, or that a STR 3 adult is still stronger than a STR 3 child and you just roll at birth.

43 minutes ago, Joerg said:

How do you know which stats to enhance if you have a limited pool of rune points?

Always INT. INT adds a bonus to nearly all skill categories if you've got 17+. Getting +4 INT from Bless Pregnancy means your average 2D6+6 roll will get you tons of skill bonuses. Even if you've just got a point or two, it's worth adding there. Further, INT isn't a raiseable characteristic so it's not like you can improve this area.

12 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Oh yes, that's possible. The thing is that there are so many other spells that are worth making community matrixes, and Bless Pregnancy ties up those points of POW for the entire duration of the pregnancy. You could have Shield 15 for a year for the same price.

Not certain a year-long Shield 15 is more worth the community's POW, but I agree with your basic point. Restore Health, Cure Disease, Bless Crops, etc. But it feels reasonable to me that an established, old clan like the Ernaldori probably has three to five Bless Pregnancy 4 matrices laying around, if not more. And an established, old clan seems likely, to me, to be looking forward to the future in that way, ensuring your clan's children are smarter, more charming, and more beloved by the gods than your rival clan's.

1 hour ago, PhilHibbs said:

I'm not entirely convinced that you can make a matrix for a spell that the creator cannot cast. "An enchanter cannot make a matrix for a spell they do not have access to". It's a little unclear, but I'd say if you can't cast Bless Pregnancy 40, you can't make a matrix for it.

However, would a priestess of Ernalda with 20 CHA and 20 RP be able to sac 1 POW (going back down to 18) and then get a bunch of clan lay members to sac 1POW each to build a Bless Pregnancy 20 matrix? I feel like you could build a matrix like that every couple years, at least.

Further, can you stack castings of Bless Pregnancy? Say, my aunt over in Rocktown cast 2 points on mom, my grandma cast 7 (she wanted her first grandbaby to be worth her time), and mom cast only 3 cuz she spent the first 2 on Reproduce to make sure dad knocked her up, for a total of +12 to stats (though who knows where grandma and auntie wanted the characteristics to go...).

6 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

So yes, I think I will both run the "before-initiate" start for PCs and also lessen the amounts of possible magic they can have/use, and give the majority of such knowledge to the priests/shamans.

I'm not sure if this will be helpful for your game, but I also wanted to tune down the quantity of Rune magic in mine, so here's what I've been playing in mine:

All cults have access to all common magic, because I can't be bothered to keep track of which's which. Stackable spells have to be bought at each point, although the RP pool in total can be used for whatever. Each adventurer begins play knowing each common spell at their base value, has 3RP, and 3 points to add to their known spells. So for example, an initiate of Orlanth might choose Flight 2 and an extra point of Dismiss Magic, so they can get rid of spirit magic spells up to 4MP. When you sacrifice POW, you get that number of Rune points as well as that many points extra "learned" of spells of your choice.

I should note that I am actually considering removing this, or perhaps removing it for special Rune magic but keeping it for common magic (which I think would have the effect you desire--only "professional magicians" tend to have access to significant Dismiss Magic, Warding, Sanctify, Divination, etc.). Ultimately, with the Rune point economy my game has experience, at this time I don't think trying to avoid my players casting season-long Shield spells with freely known Extension is too relevant.

Now, if someone would roll up a POW-18 adventurer and drop 8 POW at creation for 11 total RP, I'd probably be a bit more hesitant to reverse our current rule... But you've really gotta reach that 10+ mark, I think, before some of the shenanigans options really come to the fore. Otherwise you've got your big spell, but no reserves.

Also to piggy-back off my characteristics post I just double-checked the Pre-Gens and wow those are some stats. Across them, there is one 9, on Harmast, and three 10s (one each on Vasana, Vostor, and poor Harmast).

Back on the subject of characteristics...

On p.53, the book notes that if an adventurer's rolled characteristics (before Elemental Rune bonuses) equal 92 or less, that adventurer gains +3 points spread where they wish with a max of 18. Minus 12 from the racial bonuses to SIZ and INT, that's assuming 80 points over 19D6, for an average of 4.21 rolled per die, whereas the usual D6 average is 3.5. 

Another way to look at this is taking that 92, subtract 26 (for average SIZ and INT of 13 each), then divide the resulting 66 among the five 3D6 characteristics, for an average across them of 13.2.

Further, in the "Perfectly All Right" sidebar on the same page, it notes that players may want to throw away adventurers which don't have average characteristics of 12 or greater.

So I think the obvious conclusion is that yeah, adventurers should absolutely have better characteristics than those generated by the RAW roll generation. Interestingly, the average on the classic D&D 3.5 and forward roll of "4D6 drop lowest" comes out to 13! So I'd say that method of characteristic generation is well suited for rolling STR, CON, DEX, POW, and CHA. Maybe even re-rolling ones atop that, or keeping the ">92? add 3" rule; it seems to me that the text implies a total of 92 points across the characteristics is an "average" or "slightly weak" adventurer.

3 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Actually, a basic starting PC is about 2 sacrificed POW to Rune Points from being a God-Talker.... and I imagine most GMs would be willing to let the player do it!

Putting them into that top 100

But yeah, you're basically right. And as a GM, I'd allow it. IMHO the main barrier to reaching Rune levels isn't the required RP, but rather the skills required. Especially for some with required skills that can't be increased by experience, like Lhankor Mhy and Chalana Arroy.

21 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

I also think that the role of a representative of the faith is really lessened when this much magic and this type of magic is spread throughout to just about everyone. In my eyes, if a group or a person that is not this kind of representative(s) finds some rune magic laid on something hindering them, let's say a Spirit Block or a Warding, then the interesting thing would be to have these people understand that they can't solve that kind of thing themselves.

Here's another way to look at it: my take is that the starting adventurer in RQG, as an initiate, is already someone who can be treated as a representative of their faith. They aren't a major figure, but to some degree they've already become someone significant to their community. At least, that's what I think is the dev intention. Whether or not that's the best approach is another matter.

It's also worth noting that not every cult gets every common Rune spell. Eurmal, for example, only gets Divination, Extension, and Multispell (IIRC). And while @Shiningbrow is right about how important and precious RP are on an adventure, having access to common+3 at adventurer creation does provide lots of both complexity and flexibility.

2 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Of those 7000 adults, all should be Initiates of their local cult (usually the most dominant, but not always), but only 100 will be higher.

IIRC they're mostly lay members, not "initiates" in the game sense. There's a bit of text in the Core of "most adults are initiates" which was confirmed sometime last summer to not mean game-term "Initiate" but just a member. Which is super annoying, yes, but a relevant distinction. You are correct AFAIK that starting adventurers are expected to reach that upper 100 fairly quickly, I think.

30 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Would Steal Moonbeam reduce the local areas Lunar Influence to that of Black Moon?

I'd see this as something more like "Steal Glowspot" or "Devour Glowspot." Though maybe it would only last until the next Full Moon day before the nearest Temple of the Reaching Moon restored the patch. I don't know how the "mechanics" of a magical "generator" supporting the Glowline works.

10 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

And was laughing out loud when I read about the "persistently, weirdly compelling" Zoran Zorak berserker! That's the stuff of legend

That adventurer's first array had a CHA of 5, which the player really liked for that adventurer, but lousy CON and I think SIZ. His second array was super good (including the CHA 18), but initially he was torn between the really good or really bad CHA and went with good. Our logic was basically that that adventurer was kind of like Charles Manson or some other cult leader/murderer (the adventurer was a Bison Tribe Praxian, not a troll) and kind of had this eerie persuasion that made sense to "normal" folks but was still off-putting. It was a great.

16 minutes ago, dracopticon said:

Also very interesting with your Elite NPC approach and I have never heard of the 19D6 idea either, but I understand it's the comprised D6 dices from all the characteristics. Could it perhaps be 19D6 + 12 (or +6/+6), as the fixed bonus on SIZ/INT could be incorporated, that may be too much though?

Literally came up with both of those within the last two, three days while writing material for my group. Made up a group of Lunar soldiers-turned-bandits and kept getting rolls of like 5 and 7 for STR or CON--which is particularly relevant when they're supposed to be wearing heavy armor! So I started just auto-re-rolling dice under 10, and kinda-sorta formalized it into a personal rule. I let a few garbage characteristics stand, but usually had to have some reason in my brain why. For example, a scout and archer with STR 5, not enough to wield a Self Bow--well, he just got nailed by a disease and hasn't built the STR back up yet. That sort of thing.

I've not tried the 19D6 thing yet but we just and a couple adventurers die last session and they doesn't wanna get rezzed, so I think I'll offer them this method. If they takes it up, I'll report back. My thinking with the 19 is that makes 3 numbers assigned to 5 characteristics, then 2 numbers assigned to 2 characteristics, SIZ and INT. So they're still getting the +6 fixed bonus. Total of 19 dice thrown; maybe more if I offer "reroll ones" as well.

For me, the real appeal of that method is watching the minmaxed bizarro characters which get build. Things like INT 17 but STR 4, CHA 6, etc.

16 hours ago, g33k said:

Greg himself... has been Gregged.

Feel like I need that on a shirt or something...

18 hours ago, Anunnaki said:

I like a little randomness, so I classified creatures/NPCs as inexperienced (1d3-1) or experienced (1d6-1) and rolled for those abilities I felt may have gained from experience. To keep things simple, I multiplied the result by 5%

Just to be sure I understand your process, you took the percentage already present in the old adventure, then added either (1D3-1)x5 or (1D6-1)x5 to the existing percentage? Ex, Reek, a trollkin, had Poky Stick 20% in an old adventure. Rolled a 3 on D3, so gained 10% to have Poky Stick 30% in your RQG conversion?

Thank you.

14 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

3 hours ago, RHW said:

Rules are for players. 😏

Ooh, you're going to get into trouble for that!

How about "Rules are for players, but Heroquesters break the rules." ?

I've had some of the same concerns as OP. The raw roll of 3D6 can feel really, really mediocre. And as @Ian Absentia points out sometimes a low characteristic makes for great roleplay, but at other times it's just vexing. Currently, I've been having my players choose three points first to add where they want, as if from Bless Pregnancy, to be "what my family hoped I would be." Sometimes this remains true to character, sometimes there's tension. Then I had them roll characteristics in order, which seemed what's going on RAW before finally adding their bonuses from Elemental Runes. I somewhat like how this works, because you can end up with a really surprising characteristic which results in unusual play (like a Zorak Zoran berserker with CHA 18 who's just persistently, weirdly compelling...).

After, if the array was super garbage, I let them re-roll it. Almost every adventurer we've created has re-rolled two or three arrays and picked one. So I feel like yeah, 3D6 is rough to get "feel-good" numbers on, even if the adventurers still might be playable (so long as that 3D6 CON is reasonable...)

I like the idea of 4D6 best 3, like in D&D. From my experience it makes for pretty good characters and you've usually got some lousy stat somewhere. I could also just see a flat rule of "reroll under 8" or under 10. Under 10's what I've done when I'm generating "elite" NPCs for our game.

Another idea I'm tossing around is having my players roll 19D6, record the numbers, maybe reroll 1's. Then, use those generated numbers where they please to create adventurers. I feel like this absolutely encourages minmaxing but might also end up with these bizarro characters with like three amazing characteristics and four mediocre/terrible ones.

Has anyone tried a point-buy system? Know of one from a different rendition of RQ/BRP? I'd be curious to see how that works. Or a stat array like in Pathfinder.

Just now, Shiningbrow said:

Last paragraph of Countermagic, p259... "This spell is incompatible with Protection, Shimmer, and Spirit Screen."

Last paragraph of Protection, p263... "This spell is incompatible with Countermagic, Shimmer, and Spirit Screen."

Oh, I thought you were criticizing the spell point totals (knowing 12pts of each). My bad.

Too many editions of this bloody game.

3 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I notice that your Harrek has a Protection 12... and usually also a Countermagic 12 - which RAW, you can't have... So, is there a reason for this rule breakage? Or, is it another "why not?"

Could you cite that? AFAIK that was the case in prior editions, but is not in RQG. I just re-skimmed the spirit magic chapter and didn't see anything (but in full honesty I was going pretty speedy). P.253-255 seems to be where the text would be.

This is entirely in My Glorantha, but to make my life simpler I've ruled that the Rune spell Discorporation and the shaman ability to discorporate are two different abilities sharing the same name. I've treated Discorporation as basically similar to astral projection or wandering ethereally in D&D; you can enter the Spirit World at a vortex (I used a naiad's pond before) but are generally restricted to exploring your immediate surroundings in the Middle World for the spell's duration. If you want to move quicker than mundane walking a Spirit Travel roll's required. You can also get this effect by smoking hazia. The ethereal adventurer is somewhat aware of "other side" shenanigans going on around, but their perception is primarily focused on the Middle World.

In contrast, I plan to treat the shaman ability as focused on the Spirit World. It lets you go there right away, starting at the adventurer's home place. (My players haven't awoken a fetch yet.) The adventurer gets to wander the Spirit World, making their one Spirit Travel check and getting their one spirit encounter per the rules before returning to their body. The shaman may forcibly leave the Spirit World and explore the Middle World, but is less aware of what's going on physically. They require the Visibility spell to initiate spirit combat or to speak even with a magical language like Spiritspeech.

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

can you learn Spirit Dance and Spirit Travel without being discorporate?

I assume you can, because not all cults with shamans appear to have Discorporation. For example, the Yelm of the Golden Bow subcult and IIRC Kyger Litor. Though I doubt you could gain experience in those skills without actually using them while discorporate.

Of course, you can always head over to Prax and light up some hazia or moon flowers...

2 hours ago, EpicureanDM said:

Remembering that they have common Rune spells. Definitely remind them once in a while, especially about Heal Wound.

This is something my players struggle with too (especially since I'm the only one in the group who owns the book). I've got a quick summary of common Rune magic and some other rules prepped and in a binder on the table so they don't have to slog through the rulebook, but they still don't have the instinctive "well, what're my Rune spell options?" feeling. Of course I'm probably fighting more of an uphill battle than I would with new players because most of mine are used to our previous campaign, which was RQ3 with very little divine magic used at all. Mostly Petersen's shamanism and sorcery.

4 hours ago, RHW said:

Man I just found Harrek's stats for my game and he is so much more horrible than Beanpot.

Post them!  though TBH I think the only hero/superhero my players won't wanna someday throwdown with is Harrek.

22 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

Also, linen linothorax is only 1 enc for 3 ap, wearable under armor for both chest and abdomen. Sign me up,

In my copy and on the PDF I don't see the ** mark indicating a linen linothorax can be worn beneath other armor.

Also (just in general) worth noting that I don't believe there's a "wear under" option for the head.

AFAICT, there's no reason to not wear leather vambraces, hauberk, and pants below your other armor. The table on p.215 notes "Can be worn under any other armor, with a cumulative encumbrance penalty" for those items but the listed ENC is 0. So.... Free AP!

I think. Unless I buggered the reading again. Am I wrong?

50 minutes ago, RHW said:

Stats for Bean Pot from my house campaign (converted from house rules):

What was your process when coming up with these stats? I can very much see my players wanting to go up against notable named characters of the Hero Wars metaplot someday... 

On 5/2/2019 at 7:08 PM, BalazarLightson said:

So a Windberry Wood Staff is a secret know the Storm folk, Kolating Hermits and such.

Would that be something that comes under a Cult Lore skill, or something more specific?

Also, thanks for all the ideas. Much appreciated  especially the Eurmali invisibility!

On 5/2/2019 at 2:25 PM, Joerg said:

I don't think that a magical ritual creating an imbued item from magical ingredients is really distinguishable from a "this world" heroquest

What do you mean by a "this world" heroquest? It doesn't ring a bell for me.

On p.201 of the Bestiary the entry for windberry trees has a description of how to make a Staff of Flight from one of its boughs and a sidebar describing such a staff's functions. This really caught my imagination. I love the idea of adventurers being able to learn how to create magic items in this way in addition to casting enchantments from Rune and spirit magic or from sorcery. It's definitely more flavorful than comparable systems of item creation I've read. Does anyone know of other examples of magic item creation in this way from older RQ material? From what I remember of Plunder there's a lot of cool items, but the general trend was more "cool/terrifying artifact from the Godtime" rather than "here's something your adventurer can learn or set as a goal."

Also, has anyone made up an item creation process like this themselves? How have players reacted to it?

21 hours ago, Kloster said:

For belonging to several cults, they have to be 'compatible', not 'associated' (RQG p275). Orlanth and Humakt are friendly (RQG p311).

Could you elaborate on your reading? Having re-read the sections on 275 and 311 this notion of "compatibility" feels ambiguous to me. The way I see it, Friendly is more "oh hey we like each other" and Associated is the close bond needed to share worship. But I feel like there's not really support in the text to prefer one reading to another, so I'm curious to understand your interpretation.

You could maybe just do a quick and dirty house rule of buying "reinforcement" for a shield. Something like +1HP +1ENC for half the original cost of the shield, stackable. So pricy but not insanely so (since probably custom work), but quickly prohibitive due to the increasing weight of the damned thing. Then let the player describe what ways they want their reinforced shield to look like--metal coating, edges, seven-layered oxhide, etc.

So a doubly-reinforced Large Shield would be...

Oh. I see what @Eric Christian Berg was talking about prices-wise. A large Hide Shield is 25C for the same stats as wicker or wood. Harrumph. Maybe that's supposed to be L? But it's C for all the Hide shields...

So to amend the above, I'd suggest reinforcing wooden only--they're the only ones with enough starting structure to add atop or some such explanation. Then a doubly-reinforced large shield would cost 80L, and have 18 HP and 5 ENC. Probably require higher strength to wield, too... maybe +1STR requirement per point of reinforcement?