Austin

11 hours ago, Kloster said:

As attack, Steal Breath is easily countered, not Moonburn.

Oh yeah, Steal Breath's kind of whatever as an attack spell. The more useful part is getting effectively-infinite magic points. Getting 1D6 MP per round for five minutes at base casting cost of 2MP is insane. And you get to hold overflow until the spell ends! Cast it for 10min, get a bewildering amount of MP, then drop some insane spells with your last few minutes of duration--and get to end with full MP, and probably all your MP matrices full as well.

If it wasn't an active spell, you could do even crazier stuff.

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

(well, you could always get yourself a Chaos trait... would you allow a DI to choose your own? 🤣🤣🤣)

According to Chaos Gift (RQG 322), you can DI when casting it to make a choice on the Chaos Feature table. I don't think you can combine this with Extension since Chaos Gift's duration is "Duration (variable)" rather than "Temporal", but if you could, for up to a year you could get:

• +3D6 POW
• +4D6 DEX, STR, CON, or SIZ
• 12-pt armor skin
• Absorb spells or reflect spells up to 2D6 intensity (pick one)
• Free Demoralize, Befuddle, or hypnotic effects
• Regen 2D6-5 HP in each hit location every round, min 1
• Or, I suppose, for extra munchkin points, you could pick #95 "Roll twice." and maybe get to choose twice? Or even just get two rolls. But I'm pretty sure any GM worth their salt would smack a player trying that.

Of course this isn't that good a munchkin trick, since you have to already be a Chief or High Priest of the Seven Mothers...

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Yeah it's pretty toasty. But if you want to see a really silly spell, look up Moonburn.

Or Steal Breath! Though Moonfire's definitely more dramatic.

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Right, off to summon a POW 5 Disease Spirit and set it on my mates, again and again and again ...

Unfortunately the disease spirit loses the POW stolen, and in the Bestiary entry all disease spirits have a Spirit Combat of 75% and POW stat of 3D6+6 (p.169)... but the principle remains the same!

I'm just waiting on my assistant shaman player to try using this exploit. It's deliciously risky.

14 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Yes, they would help.

How would you rule they help, mechanically?

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

However, they break very easily. If you hit one of the Rabble and take a limb out of action, it takes them out of combat. If you take half of them out of the combat, the rest will turn and run. If you use scary magic then they are likely to turn and run.

In hindsight, I've basically taken this attitude in my RQG game and I feel it works well. Adventurers kill the dark troll leader of a group of bandits, and most of the trollkin scrubs flee. That sort of thing.

4 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

12 geases (no idea of the plural)!

Pretty sure it's geese. (If only because that will drive our Humakti Duck brethren into the deep end of the swamp.)

11 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I believe i might be the only human on the planet that liked RQ 3 ENC rules and even used them (gasp)

We used them, in the RQ3+ I played. I broadly like them more than RQG's generally because of how it quantifies all the annoying nonsense you're carrying around. Each has its own advantages. We didn't use really Fatigue though because didn't want to do the bookkeeping. Our process was that we calculated Fatigue, and then if you were carrying more ENC than Fatigue you got the excess as a flat penalty to basically everything. I don't know if that was part of RQ3's default rules or not. And, some skills (mostly Magic & Agility skills I think) had a flat penalty of your total ENC.

My biggest "What the heck?" moment thus far has probably been the existence of the "Craft (Magic Item)" skill in the Creating a Dwarf Adventurer section of the Bestiary, under the Silver Dwarf "occupation." P.58 of the print edition.

43 minutes ago, Kloster said:

If you want to go that way, create a Tarshite Seven Mothers initiate Assistant Shaman. That way, he could also learn sorcery, in addition to the rune spells, the spirit magic and the (later) shaman powers.

Trick there is that you wouldn't get to start with any Sorcery (AFAIK only Lhankor Mhy provides a cult option for learning Sorcery), but you could pick it up later, maybe a lot later. 

35 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

You mean, a Kolati? Makes absolutely perfect sense to me!

I suppose that's what I mean? Assuming a Kolati's a Orlanth-worshipping shaman. The way I see it, it feels plausible for a lot of cults to have an initiate who engages in shamanism, but probably not priest/esses save those specifically noting them. But even just being an initiate gives tons of goodies in RQG. If I ever get to actually play an adventurer, that's probably the blend I'd try. Spell Extension buffs from Shaman + Extension'd Flight Rune magic sounds dope. Fly around zapping dudes all superhero-style.

14 minutes ago, metcalph said:

IMO

For the magic item, think of a Manhattan Project for the Mostali - like a Storm Energy Dampener or a Moonrock creator.  They know how to build that item but its going to take time (decades perhaps centuries) and resources.  They could extrapolate from their skill the art of building lesser items but its something they will have to work through in the lab.

As for sorcerous scrolls, these would be design documentation on the Runes.  They could use it to master new runes and techniques but they really use it as a resource for looking up the answers to complcated magical questions (what is the air speed of a disrupt spell? etc.)

I'm more curious TBH on what those lesser items would be--the kind of thing that could show up during an adventure, rather than the climax of a campaign. I like your interpretation of the sorcerous scrolls. It feels right on that boundary between science and Monty Python or Discworld where I feel so much of Glorantha exists.

Hrm. I might put up a thread later aggregating the skills mentioned in passing in the Bestiary for discussion. Bet there's a lot to unpack there.

So I don't know if this is an exploit or what, but according to p.58 of the Bestiary, Silver Dwarf adventurers get the skill Craft (Magic Item)... Whatever that's supposed to do? Also broadly gets "sorcerous scrolls" which seems to be begging for munchkinnery. "Ooh, what do I have in my scrolls... how about Moonfire or Steal Breath?"

10 minutes ago, Kloster said:

According to rules p79, the elective percentages have to be put to skills.

For the  like of '(Sorcery spell) +20%' (p70 for the philosopher), I understand it that it should be added to a spell the character already has, but you are right, nothing forbids to put it to a new spell. This would not be tons, because this is only 3 bonuses, but it could be used for 3 new spells.

I've read the Philosopher occupation as starting with one Rune, one Technique, and three spells, one at 20% and two at 10% based on those +% mods noted in the occupation description. I see Sorcery spells as basically being skills. (Though I guess the spells could start at their base, and then you have those choices to add to any of your known spells from occupation + cult. Base% = 1D6+Mag Mod p.390) My rationale for those personal skill bonuses is that they can go to any skill, and sorcery spells are skills, soooo...

Hey, it's a munchkin thread after all, right?  So hypothetically with this "interpretation" (exploit?) you could get up to nine bonus spells! If you wanna play a bookworm who's never left the tower anytime ever...

Also now that I'm ruminating on it I don't think there are any rules saying that a Philosopher or Lhankor Mhy Initiate's elective percentage points can't go to learning new Sorcery spells... Which could add a ton of extra spells for a new adventurer. Especially because some (like Magic Point Enchantment) aren't important to have at a high percentage because you'd probably be using ritual practices, etc. to get percentage up anyway since you don't cast those mid-adventure.

This will vary from table to table, GM to GM, Glorantha to Glorantha, but it seems to me there's a cozy space for powerful, unorthodox blends of cult and profession leading to adventurers with some crazy abilities. For example, a Tarshite Philosopher of the Seven Mothers, or a Sartarite Assistant Shaman who's an Initiate of Orlanth. Any time you can get access to more than one magical "tradition" feels to me like opening the door to munchkinnery.

10 hours ago, Tywyll said:

Wut? Links please! I would love to check that out.

 

Here, along with other systems. I'm not personally much familiar with Tekumel, but more a bastardized version forcibly imprinted on top of Glorantha. It's weird. It's really weird. I'd not call the PDF linked on that page actually representative of the game I play in, but it's sort of the starting point.

5 hours ago, Kloster said:

The reduction is applied in all opposed rolls, including spirit combat (RQG p142 to p144).

Huh. Missed that somehow, evidently. Thanks.

I don't think Spirit Combat rolls are reduced the way weapon skills are. IIRC the over 100% rule only occurs in physical combat situations--it's in the Combat chapter, not the Game System chapter, which leads me to believe it's a specific addition, not a broad rule.

On augments, you could use your Moon Rune mostly, because that Rune can be used in any sort of "magic" situation. I can see Man or Beast applying, or another cult Rune (like Death for a shaman following Waha), but under a strict reading of the augmenting rules I don't believe that counts since as written, they don't seem to care about cultic connections.

I'd rule that those spells aren't effective against the Bad Man, since that encounter doesn't care about MP loss. I could see a weird/mystic shamanism cult having a special Rune spell which would buff Spirit Combat or otherwise interact with this type of encounter, if you would want to give the adventurers in your Glorantha an extra edge.

It's also important to note that you can increase your Spirit Dance roll when awakening the fetch with ritual practices. Spending one extra day adds 50% to this roll. You might be inclined to give the same ritual practices bonus to the Spirit Combat against the Bad Man.

Finally, you could still use a skill augment, such as Sing or Play Instrument.

47 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Remember to augment your Spirit Combat with your Spirit Rune.

Spirit Rune?

53 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Sure, but then only those larger cities are where you would expect a sufficient number of wrongdoers to end up in the temporary care of law enforcement.

And probably pretty temporary care at that. I struggle to imagine an Esrolian priestess-queen spending lots of time mulling over whether or not someone committed X crime. And as far as I recall, most of the examples from Hammurabi's code are pretty immediate--he's a real big fan of lopping off body parts.

Yeah, I mean we've all always had a blast playing the system. I'm not sure I'd say "Gods are the only true way to RQ!" or "This is Unique and Better!" or anything like that, but just realized that my own experience is somewhat off-norm, and was curious if anyone else had similar.

18 hours ago, Sumath said:

It was fine, but as a party they were the least RuneQuesty

I find this interesting, because that's sort of my "this is what a RuneQuesty game is." A fair amount of big magic, but most of it sorcery, not divine/Rune magic. More defined by the grittiness of the combat in comparison to PFRPG, than by a sense of cultures or connections.

I can see an interpretation of Danfive Xaron being similar to what we think of as criminal prison, in Lunar societies. That'd be more in the Heartlands than in any of the areas currently supported by RQG, I think. Among most places an RQG game is likely to take place, I imagine crime is either dealt with by payment/weregild or death. Maybe thralldom. I remember a series of events in King of Dragon Pass where one woman steals another's horse, from two different clans, and it turns into a murderfest between the families and possibly a clan feud depending on how you respond to the events. But that sequence can last into the next generation, after both women and the horse are dead.

I figure in Glorantha, if someone with any sort of notable magical prowess is accused and believed guilty of crime by the clan/city authorities, they're probably just exiled or killed. Not worth the risk of keeping around, for cultures in the Dragon Pass area.

Examples like Hammurabi's Code make sense to me for areas like Esrolia where the increased population demands written legislation, and maybe some larger Sartarite cities like Boldhome, but I get the impression that most of the play region lacks codified law, but relies on a LM Sage's memory of historic examples as Lawspeaker, and the few absolute rules (like hospitality).

So I've been thinking a bit, and realized that both my experience as a player (RQ3 with lots of house rules) and as a GM (RQG with some houserules) has been rather light on Rune magic. I've never actually participated in a game where anyone worshiped any of the Lightbringers, which feels like the sort of "default" for RQ. Spirit magic/shamanism and sorcery have been the broad go-to's of my playgroup--even in my RQG game it's not instinctive for my players to use Rune magic, and we've been playing some months. I'm curious if anyone else on here has ended up with a similar play "meta" and/or has advice for playing within such a milieu.

For context of my own experience:

RQ3 party: A Knight-Sorcerer, an anti-undead sorcerer, an ancestor-worshipping shaman, an undead-using sorcerer, an occasional trickster, and a recurring warrior (who died and rerolled somewhat frequently) who most recently worshiped Yelmalio. Most notable houserules include an abomination mixing RQ3 sorcery, Petersen's Presence-based sorcery, and his RQ3 Tekumel sorcery (which led to a bunch of sorcerers in the party). All humans. We ended up in a Lunar context, but started in Pavis without affiliations.

RQG party: A pair of troll sorcerer brothers, a morokanth assistant shaman, and a Praxian Waha initiate (no shaman stuff learned). In Pavis, loosely allied with Argrath's forces.

17 hours ago, klecser said:

I like the idea of a Sartar character learning the Moon Rune secretly so as to "know thy enemy." Lots of conflict possibilities there!

There is a rationale there, but my take on an adventurer's Rune affinities--and especially for the Elemental Runes--is that they're more descriptive than something one learns. They mechanically describe an adventurer's personality. So adventurers with a high Darkness rating tend to be more ambitious, adventurers with a high Air rating tend to be more violent and passionate, etc. Which leads into the personalities of the deities, and adventurers eventually assuming the roles of their god in the Middle World. It's one of the things I quite like about RQG, honestly; I feel like there's this very natural cause & effect cycle which goes on involving adventurer personality and mechanical capacity.

Doesn't mean there aren't potential issues, but it is a feature I like.

21 hours ago, klecser said:

Next question: Picking Runes. Clearly there is some "back planning" that is involved with this, right? I picked "Moon" for one of my high-level runes and I'm not finding many Moon focused Rune spells for Sartar/Orlanth. I have Air, which seemed obvious, and I picked Movement as one of the 75s. But it looks like Moon isn't going to really do anything for me. So, the actual question/realization is: Characters should be picking Runes that are aligned with their culture and deity so that they can actually use them. Correct? 

My process when I walked my players through adventurer creation is to ask them to think a bit about what sort of personality they want to play, which led to choosing their initial Rune ratings. From a minmax perspective, Moon's a great primary or secondary Elemental Rune because of the bonus to POW. It's also a great choice for players wanting to play a "magician" focused adventurer, because it can be used to augment rolls related to magic--most importantly, rolls on the resistance table to overcome POW! Of the Elemental Runes, I think Moon is the trickiest to roleplay because playing "passionate!" or "ambitious!" or "generous!" is to my mind a simple concept, but playing "mystic!" or "detached!" is more like a compound idea. If you're looking to optimize your Elemental Runes affinities, it can make a lot of sense to rely on your Power/Form Rune affinities for your strong cult runes. This may impact your best spell choices, but having at least one high cult rune is all you need for consistent access to common rune spells. Don't forget that you get bonus points (50, I think?) to spend across the board on your affinities--15 points can bump that Movement 75% up to 90%. This lends quick access to Heal Wound, etc. and you've still got 35 points to spend.

Another piece of info to keep in mind is that, RAW, any time you have a Rune or Passion over 80%, the GM can dictate your actions, or otherwise reduce your rating. (I don't think I've ever seen someone on here say they actually plan to play that strictly.) In order to become a Rune Lord, you must have one of your cult Runes at 90%!

Now, how much you want to attach to a cultural Rune depends on your god. Again from an optimization standpoint, the Air Rune is mostly important if you worship Orlanth or another Air deity. If you're worshiping his fellow Lightbringers, that Air Rune does not matter. But, worshiping Orlanth, you probably do want to include the Air Rune as a major Rune because a lot of his spells roll on it--just the Movement Rune loses you access to some of his better spells, like Lightning and Shield. Some other gods you can skimp on one Rune, or the cult doesn't even care about the Elemental Runes, giving you free reign. For example, IMHO Daka Fal only really cares about the Man Rune, which lets you do whatever you want for the other choices (Moon's really good here, because a shaman detached from the cares of the world is a concept which works pretty simply, IMHO. Plus the shaman abilities are crazy.)

2 minutes ago, Sumath said:

Honour would be a good way of ensuring captives honoured their captivity. If you offer your ransom to save your skin then reneging on that could be seen as dishonourable.

Really it's probably the second-most reliable way of ensuring some naughty captive doesn't burn down half your village in the night with Ignite. Most reliable being cutting throats.