Austin

Without referencing the text, that sounds like it's a parallel case to how Rune magic works. So, the Magic Rune can basically be replaced by any Rune the sorcerer has mastered, as long as he's mastered at least one Rune. For example, the Rune spell Command Cult Spirit has (I believe) the Magic Rune, but can be cast rolling on any of the cult's Rune affinities. So followers of Orlanth could use the Air Rune, Movement Rune, etc. I'm guessing it's the same in your quoted section for sorcery; the sorcerer could use any of his mastered Runes as the Rune for casting Drain Soul.

15 hours ago, styopa said:

Absolutely agree that incrementalizing Rune Spell access is IMO going to make for a more interesting game for the players.

I was initially charmed by the Rune Point system (and still would like to figure out a way to implement it that encourages use of the sort of utility spells that nobody ever bothered sacrificing for.  (Personally, I think the key is to address the utility spells themselves for being too generally worthless....D&D5 recognized this in their talent points, making them MORE scarce but individually much more powerful, giving players difficult choices of significant stat gain vs compelling talents.)

Not to mention, some of the Rune Spells as written in RQG don't seem entirely fully-baked, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, that was sort of my line of thought. Too many decisions can absolutely be bad (looking at you 4E, GURPS) but I feel like in general an initiate with 5-7RP from any given cult is going to feel like each other initiate. Which, I dunno, isn't bad, but it's not really exciting to me either. So incremental spells add a bit more specialization (and also pulls down the power level because it's harder to just drop a Lightning 7 and see what happens).

What sorts of utility spells would you have in mind? Functions, more than rules texts. The first example which pops to my mind is bridge of noble passage, from Petersen's RQ Tekumel, and all the cool, flexible harden air and arms of air effects in Wheel of Time d20 (which were cool, but horribly overpowered when creative).

11 hours ago, Atgxtg said:

As for the services, they should probably be related to the type of spirit being contacted. Air spirits might want an area opened up for the wind, a structure knocked down or some such so they can move more freely, a fire spirit might want something burned. I think the thing here is that the sacrifice or  service should be something that is actually inconvenient for the shaman to do. If it's too easy then he isn't really gambling, and it becomes a cheap way to get free Rune Magic. Having to fight some sort of enemy spirit in Spirit Combat in behalf of the spirit could work. Say the Shaman looses to a Fire spirit, and it wants him to get rid of a pesky water spirit that's been protecting something, say a ship,  the fire spirit wants to burn. So the Shaman gets rid of the water spirit, and the ship get burned. An now the Shaman has to explain to the owner why he got rid of the protecting spirit. 

Hmm, a Shaman claiming that he had to do it because he was in debt to a fire spirit sounds about right. 

I agree with all of this, but how in the world would you systematize it for OP's cult writeup? Like, "Sorry guys, but I lost a bet to the ghost. *shrug*" is 100% my playstyle and definitely seems like something a single GM could run, but how would you phrase that into a broader document? The best I can think of is a random "lost bet" table for each of the different groups of spirits, but that seems like it'd be kind of obnoxious to play (remembering my Warhammer days and all the chart lookups).

While I do fall closer to the "would have loved an extra edit" camp, I'd like to point out that IMHO editing within the tabletop gaming world is usually a bit... lacking. At least, that's been my experience. No grids on maps (when instructed to look at grids), map sections which don't connect to one another, misplaced stat blocks, numerical errors in modifier tables, etc. is something my friends and I have even encountered in WotC's 5E material (where I suspect they can afford to pay full-time editors).

My experience with RQG has been that there aren't substantially more errors than I've come across in comparable documents. However, some of those errors either come from frustrating causes (like text being copy-pasted from prior editions) or are in more important sections (a typo in the Game System chapter is a lot more important than in the Homelands chapter), and I think that's a cause of a lot of the frustrations expressed in this thread.

1 hour ago, Brootse said:

Greek hoplites weren't fishermen and wouldn't have known anything about sailing. Hellenic-like marines will fit the Lunar Empire well. And Sean_RDP, if you want to make your Lunar marines be a special unit where the members have some sort of boating background, that's fine too, because the Lunar soldiers are equipped by the state, unlike the greek hoplites. Maybe one of the requirements could be a high Water rune too?

I don't get why some people keep on insisting that most people in Glorantha are lay members instead of initiates, nothing in Runequest books support this.

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

No, anything Hellenic comes from a long naval tradition, something the Lunars definitely lack. Even the Spartans used to have a navy and founded (failed) colonies in the Tripolis area.

A big piece of why I recommended Thucydides is also that I figure it'll be more interesting reading than some other sources . There's very much a point where too much information is a bad thing, but an entertaining historical document which is vaguely on-topic could be a pleasant source of inspiration, I reckon.

Alright, that makes sense. I just figured that it was worth asking if you had some boat ideas in mind.

If you're looking for ancient marines, I recommend Thucydides's The Peloponnesian War. Apart from the fact that I'm a total Hellenophile, it has plenty of decent accounts on ancient maritime warfare which, when reflecting, make sense to my mind as how the Lunar Empire might act. Plus it's also a half-decent read in most translations.

One of the big things that really charmed me about RuneQuest as a whole, when I started playing it instead of Pathfinder, is the slow, granular pace of character progression. I feel like RQG reduces that somewhat with its high initial character skills and with the new Rune points system. While I do really like Rune points and rolling on your Rune affinities and all that, I've been thinking of ways to house rule the game back down to a bit of a slower pace.

The main one I've been considering is that each time an adventurer sacrifices POW for Rune points, he may gain one point of a stackable spell, instead of gaining variable access. I'm drawing sort of on RQ3 for this (although I've played a sorcerer, not a theist). I'm not thinking the points need to be increasing to get increased spell strengths. So just sacrificing one POW lets you go from Flight 3 to Flight 4, and gives you one additional Rune point, but you couldn't cast a Flight greater than Flight 4 from your Rune point pool. There's still the flexibility of the RP pool, but a slower growth to being able to do crazy things. Plus, cults with less Rune magic still get to be making choices for a time longer.

I figure spells which cost multiple RP probably would need multiple POW sacrificed to buy, but I'm a bit unhappy about that.

Common spells are a bit trickier. I'm thinking maybe I'd rule that adventurers automatically gain access to one point of their cult common spells (or basic access for common spells which cost more than 1RP like Command Cult Spirit), but have to choose to add to those spells to go further. So, you'd need to sacrifice a total of 4 POW to get Extension 5.

Another thing I've been thinking about is ruling that when inspired by a Rune, the adventurer can only cast spells with that Rune, or else lose the inspiration. Sometimes this won't be a big deal since spells with the Magic Rune can be used by any Rune--so your Orlanthi inspired by the Air Rune could still cast Heal Wound--but once in a while it'll be a real nuisance. "Do I give up my inspiration to cast X spell from my associate cult?"

This really is just kind of brainstorming around, but I feel like this would be a fun way to play the game. Of course, I'm sure there's consequences on playstyle and how the world appears, but that's what you're all here for, isn't it?  I'm generally awful at figuring those out, and would love some feedback and general thoughts.

If the ship doesn't work, how are you planning them to get off the island and flee back to Lunar Tarsh? (That's what I'm understanding the premise of your campaign to be, anyway.)

Yanafal Tarnils might be a good additional choice for your players, so they aren't all locked to one cult. There's an old writeup for him in an issue of Tales of the Reaching Moon which I've... found, and is pretty good. Dunno if you can find it licit-ly, but taking Humakt and calling it Yanafal Tarnils should serve closely enough. Same honorable war god stuff, though not anti-undead and anti-resurrection.

Yelm's also a reasonable choice; there's some Yelm-worshipping nobility among the Lunars, even in Tarsh I think. A Lunar noble worshiping Yelm who got wrangled into service could be an interesting character, if players want more on-theme variety. (I'm thinking the fop upper-class officer trope from TV and movies.)

I'd let players who want to be sorcerers use the Philosopher occupation, or at least get the additional Rune + Technique.

3 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

I'm a bit disappointed in my reading of the Core book. I wish all the glowing review I read before purchase had mentioned all the errors and rule contradictions. It's a very difficult book for a Runequest newcomer to get through.

I'm currently reading the Combat chapter, and the limb damage is difficult to decipher, the Parry chart and the section on Critical Parry differ completely, the example of using Runes has a -10% penalty for failure instead of -20% mentioned earlier, combat with skills greater than 100% is different in the combat chapter than it is in the skills chapter.

That's just half of the combat chapter. 

Is the Bestiary and GM Kit this full of errata and contradictions? I'm having a little buyers remorse for a $55 book.

Best I can tell, most of these challenges and weirdnesses come because a lot of the text of RQG is lifted from prior editions, and then altered. Tribal edit did a lot of work hammering away at this, but I'm sure there's inconsistencies left. You're right that this is a barrier to new players. I've some experience with prior editions (plus oodles of free time to spend tinkering with them and reverse-engineering systems, which should not be assumed standard) and that helps me a lot but yeah, it can be really odd. I'm not really sure there's a solution to this, but if you ever have the time skimming some RQ2 and RQ3 adventures or other materials can help give you an idea what language was used, and when RQG just nicked a paragraph.

Have fun muddling through the augmenting system. I recall that being rough the last time I read it through . 

The first draft didn't do a lot for me, but I'm pretty charmed by this second draft. Love the whole "gamble with the spirits to learn their magic" thing. I like the idea of sacrificing a deer, cow, whatever, more than MP, since it represents something more permanent. Some sort of obligation. That process should be more explicitly described (even if it's just stated flat-out as whoever rolls lower on D100).

What day is Good Winds Day? For those of us only familiar with the default Orlanthi calendar . A sentence advising how to determine the Kolati holy days could be helpful too (roll D20 and count along?).

 I think the Cult skill "Gambling" should be "Game" per RQG Core p.178

I figure you could add Axis Mundi as a special Rune spell all Kolating shamans get access to (although maybe it behaves differently?), since it seems to be a key part of how RQG's general shamanism functions. Perhaps they get it the usual gambling way, but part of the Kolating ritual to become a shaman is succeeding at that gamble? (Instead of--or in addition to--meeting the Horned Man and the Bad Man.)

"Never commit adultery" could maybe use more explanation, considering all the odd Orlanthi marriage varieties. The simplest rewording might be "Never have sex outside marriage."

"Immune to curses cast by women" could use more explanation too. What's a curse? Any spell which needs to overcome POW--and then is Disrupt a curse? That doesn't seem likely to me. I suppose this connects to a broader idea of "what are curses to the Orlanthi?" outside just Rune and spirit magic. Which is probably outside this writeup's scope.

3 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

I will start a thread here once we start playing to let you know how our newbie Glorantha goes.

I look forward to that. It sounds amusing (and I sincerely mean that in the best of ways).

There's some mention of Lunar assassins wiping out the House of Sartar, and of Red Earth assassins trying to kill Queen Samastina in the Core book, but no rules text that I'm aware of. I could definitely see the Lunars having trained, professional assassins, but those mentions could also be "this warrior was sneaky, so he's an assassin."

5 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

I don't think so. The benefits of being a shaman are well described and extensive, and "acts as" is a long way from "gains all the benefits of".

Oh, and another thing to tack onto these questions--are Shamans Rune Masters? I've been re-reading RQG now that I've got my hard copy, and it seems that RAW only Priests, Lords, and God-Talkers are Rune Masters (which is relevant for some spells and effects which do/don't effect them, like the Rune spell Peace).

16 hours ago, styopa said:

Ha ha, thanks.

Yeah, RQG had really put me in a bind.  I was aware that our rules set was in practical terms unavailable to anyone outside our group.  That's why I had such high hopes for RQG to be the "new" core, living rule set for which I could write a new set of houserules.  Then people who enjoy it could get it.  After consideration, I'm not going to bother.

It's either: spend a large amount of time rewriting the fairly large amount of stuff I'm not happy about in RQG (to basically get the game back to what we play today, with perhaps some changes)...and then with each RQG adventure/setting, have to then still put in a lot of work adapting it to our game.  Or...

Just keep playing our current game, and then with each RQG adventure/setting, put in a lot of work adapting it to our game.

I'm not conceited enough to believe that our way is particularly better, it just works well for what we want out of the game.  So I think if anyone's interested in RQ generally, we DO have RQG to point them at and say "there's your new beautiful rule set, make it your own'.  

That makes a lot of sense. TBH I'm not entirely sure what we play is strictly "RQ3" anyway. It's more... RQL? Heh. But I do like it, a lot. I find I like a lot of RQG's concepts and ideas, and as I'm reading my print copy I'm falling in love with the system again--the new Rune magic system and sorcery systems are delightfully on-point, theme-wise. Even if I'm less cheerful about the execution.

My gut reaction was "no, it's the social role," but as I think on it, I feel like I would probably play it as a "yes." Although perhaps someone who has just become a shaman is treated as an "assistant" still for a while, and only the shamans leading clan/tribal ceremonies get the Rune Priest benefits. Hrm.

I feel like getting the increased opportunity to recover Rune Magic would be included, but the +20% chance to increase POW would not (especially since Shamans can kind of do that anyway with Soul Expansion). I think everyone gets chances for POW Gain rolls at Worship--priest, shaman, initiate, etc.--but I might be mistaken.

A way you could do it is that the Shaman counts as "full priest" with benefits/obligations only if he's got POW above 18. So a shaman w/ a sizeable fetch might not be a full priest in that way, depending on his POW. And if he wanted to be serving as a priest, it would be more difficult for him to gain POW to add to his fetch.

Hrm. Maybe just social role is best overall. The above is basically thinking out-loud. Take it as you will.

Thanks for sharing, it's much appreciated. I'm in your son's playgroup and we've been trying to figure out if the houserules were written up anywhere for some time.

Also, the Beast Shaman has sounded totally sick. Looking forward to reading it after finishing my re-read of RQG.

1 hour ago, deBorn said:

Thank you for your insights.

Talking with the player, he clarified his position. He wanted to play a shaman associated to the cult of Yinkin. I wouldn't allow this, as I understand the core book, either rune magic benefits, or shamanism benefits (and taboos).

If your player's really gung-ho on it, I reckon a clan could have both Yinkin and Daka Fal (as Ancestors) worship. YGMV, after all. Perhaps the adventurer is an assistant shaman, doing shaman-ey things, and also an initiate of the clan's main Yinkin cult? Particularly if the founder's spirit is the center of a local spirit cult. My understanding is that basically everyone now has Rune magic to some degree (even sorcerers).

One of the joys (and frustrations) of Glorantha is that it provides more wiggle spots than clean answers.

I'm of the understanding that this was addressed elsewhere, and that those suits are supposed to be enchanted, not unenchanted iron. They wouldn't have the penalty, and it was just a mistake. I believe that has been addressed.

I'm not able to be helpful on the "Do wyters have RP?" question. Sorry!

51 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

I'm thinking maybe a necromantic cult that is an aspect/relative of the fertility cult existing in the Necropolis.

That's a cool idea. If you're looking for brainstorming suggestions, maybe something mixing Maran Gor with the ZZ necromancy spells? (Maran Gor's the goddess of like violent earthquakes and whatnot usually)

Thanks @MOB. Wish I could use a reaction a wee bit stronger than "Like." 

And thanks for sharing, @7Tigers. Some of us don't aggressively follow everything that Chaosium ends up involved in.  Appreciate the share.

12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Mine was delivered today, although I am on holiday in France and unable to enjoy it 😣

Poor you

Just got mine today, and I've been reading through it again. Much more pleasant experience than staring at my screen. Gorgeous, gorgeous book. Probably one of my all-time favorite RPG volumes to just sit and read, thus far.

12 minutes ago, g33k said:

Have you seen THIS submissions page?

Or THAT one?

Chaosium also has the DTRPG-partnered "Miskatonic Repository" for Call of Cthulhu fan/etc content.

They have stated that they are looking at the "MR" endeavor with an eye toward a similar RQG project, but I don't think they have yet announced whether it will or won't actually happen.

 

I have! They're very exciting.

But, frankly, I don't think I'm good enough to submit to Chaosium.  Not to mention it sounds like they're running at full capacity to get years and years worth of RQG supplements published. My thinking was to try cutting my chops on less professional markets. Though I appreciate the suggestion.

Something like WotC's DM's Guild for 5e would be really cool.

I suppose at this stage I'm just curious about everything, but I'd love to see fully-fledged 3rd party (even if it isn't open to submissions).

Part of how I remember D&D being so cool (3.5, and then Pathfinder) is how much content there was, which was other people's visions of the game, worlds, etc. IMHO while the OGL might not have been great for WotC business-wise, it was huge for the hobby. Some of my favorite content ever is 3rd-party.

38 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

The guide was the only new book I decided not to buy, so I'm not super worried about strict canon. I wish the book of cults and gods was available, but I'm hoping I can get close enough to a necromancer with sorcery. I haven't made it through all the magic chapters yet though.

IMHO RQG's sorcery has some really cool concepts, executed... mediumly. I'm guessing the forthcoming Gods of Glorantha book will be similar in style and content to the Gloranthan Classics one (which I wish so, so desperately they still had in dead elf). The sorcery chapter does come with a disclaimer that it will be further added to and expanded in future supplements, but I get that's not much help right now. As it stands, RQG's sorcery doesn't really have a good already-written way to play a necromancer. It's best suited for sorcery-using initiates of Lhankor Mhy (with a few other things tossed in, which give potential for further expansion).

I suppose you could come up with an Animate Corpse spell by using the Command technique to manipulate the Man/Body and Death Runes? I dunno how a corpse would be best expressed.

If you're interested in my own writeup I can PM you my current version. It's a work-in-progress, but could be helpful. I intend to eventually put a "finished" version up someday, but that'll be like months and months down the line.

5 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

Would there be a better way to be a necromancer of the animate dead variety? OR is there another cult? (I doubt it would be detailed in RQG yet, but maybe I could sub in the Zorak game mechanics)

There's some great rules bouncing around the web for playing Malkioni sorcerers, written by Sandy Petersen back in the 90's. I don't have a link, but I'm sure someone around here can help?... One of the nice things with BRP games is that different rulesets mesh together fairly well. However, it does depend on how canon-friendly you want your Glorantha to be. I'm not familiar with the nitty-gritty, but my take is that those rules (which sets up the West as pseudo-medieval fantasy, to my reading) are now considered pretty outside canon due to the Guide, which I don't actually own and haven't read.

I've been working on a sorcery writeup I'd be willing to share, if you're interested. It's a mess, and the rules are super "crunchy," which might not be a good fit for your game either. It's the rules my playgroup uses. It melds some concepts from M.A. Barker's Tekumel/Empire of the Petal Throne into Glorantha as sorcerous Saints of Stability and Demons of Change. One of the players in my group plays a sorcerer following Sarku, the Five-Headed Lord of Worms, who's all about the perfection of the intellect and lichdom and whatnot.