Leingod

Huh. The closer one has a guy with cloud "wings" and a magic-looking scepter, so maybe he's a Rune Lord and his chariot doesn't need to be as combat-effective as the other ones (the third one off in the distance seems to have the double-pole thing)?

Well, the Golden Age did predate death and most forms of suffering, so it makes sense in its own way that the bad things came after the good things. And yeah, I thought of Daga too and remembered he is a god of drought specifically, hence he was defeated when Heler was freed from Aroka. Actually, I suppose this makes Inilla vs Yatelo a little similar to Barntar vs Daga. Well, YarGan and Yenfar don't sound too far apart linguistically, but yeah, no real way to tell. And while we're on the topic of food and feeding yourselves, the Cow Mother of the Hyaloring mythos is called Busenari, who seems to be pretty much identical to Uralda. Like Uralda's Heroquest, her main myth and Ritual is a foundation myth about man's relationship to cattle. And as mentioned above, it's basically an explanation of how things changed in the shift from an urban to a rural life. Thus, we have "Busenari Finds the Light:" It's interesting that in some ways this is essentially the opposite of Uralda's myth, though. Uralda's story is of the cattle beginning out in the wild and seeking the protection of man in pens, while Busenari's story has the cattle beginning in Yelm's pens and seeking the protection of man out in the wild. I also find myself wondering if the songs Busenari sings have any deeper meaning. I'll also note that unlike in Uralda's myth, bulls have no mention here; where one of the major hurdles in that Heroquest is convincing the bulls to follow and then mollifying them when they realize some of them are being slaughtered (in that Earth Goddess way where you use your superior wiles to put the witless men in their place thinking that they run everything), but here the cattle are all called Busenari's daughters, with no mention at all of bulls. ... Also, there's a big difference here that I only just noticed. Here, Nyalda and Uralda are sisters, whereas Ernalda is the mother of Uralda. What gives? Hmm... It might be how the Hyalorings interpret the relationship because they aren't as comfortable with having sex and children outside of marriage. I don't actually know how okay with it they are, BTW, except that they believe that a child born of a Ram and a Rider will always end up as an evil sorcerer, and one of your choices when you find that a Rider of your clan has been seeing a Ram girl is to encourage him to drown himself.

I think maybe if we knew what the song Nyalda made from that was and/or what the intended lesson was we could speculate, but as is, I've got nothing. As for the distinction between god and mortal, while this is before Time it is at least after the introduction of Death to the world, so the difference that gods can be killed but mortals inevitably die is now a thing. Makes sense. I guess Dendara represents the ideal "civilized" wife; she's the wifely god for an urban rather than a rural society. While I'm here, I might as well continue with another Hyaloring god and myth, Dostal the Hunter and his own Ritual, "Dostal and the Snow Elk. As I mentioned earlier, Dostal seems to be a foreign god the Hyalorings received after they left Nivorah, as here he is "a god we had only just met." As to the identity of the four children, there's more lore to explain it; essentially, when the One Clan grew too large, it split into four, and each of the children here would be the first chieftains of those clans. The story of the one called Nameforgot isn't actually told outright (as far as I can tell), just hinted at here and there. He led the North Clan, which tried to stay just out of reach of the encroaching glacier rather than moving further away from it. Basikan led the South Clan, and in keeping with the lesson that Basikan learned most strongly their descendants (including the PC clan) have wandered further than any others; in the game, that means they are right on the north bank of the Black Eel river, with a bunch of Ram (Vingkotling) clans on the southern bank. So basically this is a sort of mythic origin story for the particular traits of the different branches of the Hyalorings as much as it is a myth about Dostal himself and how he taught the Hyalorings to hunt. It's probably why the hunting lessons Dostal teaches are all things that are applicable to more than just hunting. I'd be willing to bet that which of the four boys asks Dostal the question that leads into the Eighth Lesson changes depending on whose descendant is telling the story. Also, like Inilla the Samnali treat Dostal with less deference than the Hyalorings do, though it's to a lesser extent and they will in fact sometimes agree to send some worshipers over to help with the Ritual. If you successfully complete it, the Wheel Dostal-worshipers will thank you for proving that a light step can be just as useful to the clan as the rumbling of wheels; presumably, then, Dostal is afforded less respect among the Samnali because a hunter can't very well ride a chariot, whereas shooting things from horseback is a perfectly acceptable way to hunt and thus it's no problem for Hyalorings. EDIT: Also, a note on Yenfar. Yenfar is known as "Yenfar the Capturer" to the Hyalorings, who regard him as a personal enemy of Hyalor. He worships "neither Sky nor Storm" and made a people from nothing referred to as "the Sorcery Tribe." So, Zzabur, or...?

Huh, I hadn't noticed that. Can you point out which is which?

Thanks for the info. I like the speculation that Votank is reborn in each Age; it doesn't quite match up with dates or anything, but that would be an interesting way to tie Votank in with Balazar by having some claim that Balazar was Votank's incarnation, and some theoretical new king might claim to be the same during the Hero Wars.

I've brought up Inilla, the only (confirmed) child of Elmal and Nyalda's marriage, so I might as well talk about her a little bit next. Her Ritual is "Inilla and the Golden Bush." As you might guess, Inilla is the goddess of foraging. It's interesting that she sprouted as a seed planted by Nyalda (and presumably Elmal is her father in the sense that sunlight is needed for the seed to sprout and germinate) and she does have the Plant Rune, but she is a goddess of gathering nature's bounty rather than, you know, being nature's bounty. I haven't really found anything on whether Yatelo shows up elsewhere in Glorantha lore, though I'm sure there's some kind of hunger god (if not multiple ones) that bedevils people. Among the Samnali, Inilla is considered a very minor divine figure; whenever I try to convince them to help you with her Ritual they'll laugh me off and say something like "the blessings of a slave aren't worth leaving home for." I get the feeling the Samnali probably don't consider Inilla Elmal's daughter, given they recognize him as the king of gods and successor to Yelm. They probably omit the part about her revealing her parentage and portray Inilla as some wretch on the road that provides food to Elmal and his retinue in exchange for being allowed to sleep at their hearth or some such. Inilla is married to Dostal, the Hyaloring's god of hunting. This is where I developed one of my pet theories after reading the Book of Heortling Mythology: that Dostal is actually a Hyaloring name for Siwend the Hunter, the original Orlanthi hunting god who was displaced by Odayla. I mostly get this idea because Siwend is stated to be married to a member of Ernalda's retinue named Indeg (a name kind of similar to Inilla), who made one of the famous Treasures of the Vingkotlings: a thorn basket that always had another handful of dried berries in it. And in fact one of the Treasures you can get in this game through doing her Ritual (though admittedly it has a different effect) is called the Basket of Inilla. Further, Dostal is a god the Hyalorings met after they left Nivorah, i.e. some time after they first came into contact with Orlanthi.

I've recently learned that the Andam Horde and their ordeed steeds are present in Six Ages, though I've never gotten this event.

It was on the wiki as being in The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm, though looking through that book now I don't see that. However, it does definitely say that Votank's father is Durbaddath, not Foundchild. The idea of Votank as Foundchild's son might have caught on with the Votanki at some later point after they abandoned or otherwise lost the worship of Durbaddath (as he is stated to have Votanki worshipers in the ReAscent but doesn't seem to be present in Balazar as of the Hero Wars). And as noted above, the "Ergeshites" of Six Ages are goat-herders who worship two different goat goddesses and whose warriors wear the hides of lions.

Well, I have read King of Sartar, and the speech Argrath gives when he kills the Devil seems to strongly imply that Argrath considers the deaths of the gods and a Fourth Age that is made by and for mankind to be the ideal outcome, so it's not a huge leap to think he did it deliberately. And I'm glad to hear you're at least enjoying the lore-dumps.

I don't think Balazar did anything to intentionally keep Mralota out of the hands of rural Votanki, they just never really felt like settling down to raise pigs, and Foundchild already does all that with the Peaceful Cut to pretty much any animal. You don't need to worship Mralota for that, and as the Pig Mother there's really no reason to worship her if you aren't going to raise and herd domestic pigs. I think in my Balazar, some Votanki hearths and clans will have adopted Mralota and keep a few pigs to supplement their diets (while others disdain pig-herding as beneath them). I think they'd do it like I read in this ancient Greek historian (I forget which) writing about swineherds in Sardinia, where they would somehow train the pigs to respond to a certain whistle and turn them over to forage in the woods and call them home at the end of the day with that whistle. Each family had their own unique whistle taught to them by their parents that only their pigs would respond to, which made it easy to prove if someone had stolen a pig that belonged to you. Whatever the historical truth of that method or its possibility to implement in real life, I think it makes for an appropriate addition to rural Balazar.

Well, no one's told me this is pointless, so I might as well forge on ahead and see if anything comes of it. The Hyalorings worship Ernalda under the name Nyalda, and in their mythology she is married to Elmal, and Inilla is one of their children (there might be more, but I either don't remember them or they aren't named as such). Anyway, like the Orlanthi there is an important myth detailing the marriage between the two, "Nyalda's Bride Price." A few interesting things to note here. For one, this seems to strongly tie into the idea that "Little Yelm" is Yelmalio; Nyalda trapping him underneath a hill with a troll when he tries to make a slave of her seems to hearken back to the Hill of Gold and Yelmalio losing his Fire to Zorak Zoran. I don't really know who the Golden Man is, though to me he seems to foreshadow Argrath; I'm an adherent of that conspiracy theory that Argrath intentionally gets the gods killed by the Devil before he slays it so that men will be free of the control of gods in the Fourth Age. That said, I'm not sure what the song Nyalda makes of it is supposed to be or mean. I will say that when you do the actual Ritual, there are instead several Mortal Suns, with the Golden Man simply being chief among them; I think they're supposed to be tiny pieces of the slain Yelm or something. Another difference when you do the actual Ritual is that Relandar does the speaking for Elmal rather than Gamari, and the way he offers Freedom as a marriage gift is somewhat different: I think this may represent a later change to the myth to represent the changes in Hyaloring society. Another thing interesting to note is that in the game you can get aid from the Wheels/Samnali on Rituals as well as Riders/Hyalorings, at least for ones that involve gods you both worship (the Samnali do not worship or like Ekarna or Hyalor). Unlike the Riders, who learned a certain amount of flexibility under Hyalor, the Samnali try to keep to their old Dara Happan ways as closely as possible, which includes a rigidly patriarchal society, slavery, the use of chariots, etc. Their worship of Elmal is virtually the same as yours (and unlike the Hyalorings, I suspect they might still worship Reladivus in his own right), but Nyalda is a bit of a different story. You can invite the Samnali to send some Nyalda priestesses over, but you get warned that choices that draw on a woman's strengths might be weakened if you do, and afterward the Samnali priestesses ask that you not let their men hear of what goes on in the Ritual (this might just be when you pick the proper choices like saying "A wife is not a slave" to Little Yelm and such), saying that they really don't need to know anything other than that it worked and will make good things happen. Also, Nyalda's mother is interesting. She seems to have more in common with Asrelia than Dendara, but is regarded as the wife of Yelm regardless (which also makes it rather creepy that Nyalda is also Yelm's concubine here). Maybe I just haven't done my due diligence, but it always seemed to me that Dendara was lacking in Earth associations and is usually presented as Yelm's properly submissive wife, rather than the still loving but more wry and even subversive Earth goddesses who say things like, "Husbands are like that. It's best to let them persist in certain beliefs."

In other words, you can Munchkin as hard as you want, but never convince yourself that your power is greater than that of the DM and that you need not fear his wrath, for he holds the ultimate power: The power to say "Rocks fall, everyone dies, no I don't care how many dice you can throw to save."

They almost certainly don't, as the Votanki are most closely related to the Pelorians, IIRC, and as I already mentioned, Votank's mother is Uryarda, a goat goddess. In which case I expect that Votanki who were made aware of all of this information would find broo even more vile than most Orlanthi do because of that mythical connection, as the broo are essentially borne of the violation and corruption of their "grandmother's" children. Speaking of Votank, I've been reading up and apparently the Dara Happans associate Votank with Ergesh, the god of slaves. According to them, his father Durbaddath rebelled against Yelm and had his head cut off, but Yelm was merciful and replaced it with a lion's head to heal him, and then Durbaddath offered his son as a slave in gratitude; this is apparently how the Dara Happans justify taking slaves from Balazar. I expect if you wanted to do some Balazaring nation-building, one way to deal with that longstanding issue might be some kind of experimental Heroquesting where you either reveal that Ergesh is not Votank or that Yelm wasn't the one who gave Durbaddath a lion's head (and thus giving Votank/Ergesh to him as a slave didn't happen or happened on false premises or something). You might also introduce the worship of Durbaddath this way, though I'm not sure in what capacity he would fit into Balazaring society. My guess is that he (being a god with a lion's head and described as a mighty but rebellious god) could be useful as a martial god for Balazaring hunters; Foundchild is no weakling, sure, but he's all about hunting animals, not men. Yelmalio is a very martial god, obviously, but not in a way that plays to the typical Balazaring man's strengths, which are that they know the terrain and they're skilled in tracking and ambushing their targets and then beating a swift retreat into the forests and hills. Durbaddath might provide a valuable way to get more martial hunters who don't have to abandon their strengths. This all may actually be a prehistorical thing for the Votanki, BTW. In Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind, one of the neighboring peoples are called the Ergeshites by the Hyalorings (a people who broke off from the Dara Happans, who identify Votank as Ergesh). They are known as goat-herders who worship two goat goddesses, and a few events involve meeting Ergeshite warriors, who wear lion pelts.

I don't recall broos having any special relationship with goats. Sure, Thed is sometimes depicted with a goat-like head and one of her children is the Black Goat that served Wakboth, but I've seen Ragnaglar depicted with a ram's skull for a head and that doesn't mean sheep are especially evil. Any animal can be twisted by Chaos. EDIT: Remembered that goats are the "traditional/iconic" animals for broo to spawn from. Fair enough I guess, but again, broo will stick their dicks in literally anything and impregnate it, so it doesn't really make much of a difference.

There doesn't seem to be much land in Balazar that would be useful for agriculture, and that might be a mythical as well as geographical thing, as there doesn't seem to be a local agricultural Earth goddess (in the same way that the Votanki didn't raise pigs until Balazar brought them an icon of Mralota). Speaking of Balazar the king, I imagine one useful step in establishing yourself as his successor (as the king of all of Balazar) would be to introduce a new food-providing goddess the same way he did. Namely, where Balazar's introduction of Mralota and her pigs allowed the citadels to exist in the first place (since you can't feed a sedentary population of 1000+ people on hunting and gathering), you might do some Heroquest or something that introduces Uryarda and her goats. Goats are hardy animals that can thrive in hilly areas and provide a good source of meat, milk and hide (goat skins are the traditional material for parchment). Also, though it's not really applicable here, they can be kept in the same pastures as most other forms of livestock without causing food problems because they tend to prefer different foods; goats prefer to eat a lot of shrubbery, vines and weeds over grasses. In summation, there's a good reason goats were one of the first animals humans ever domesticated. And Uryarda is the mother of Votank, so technically you'd just be returning her to the family of Votank's descendants. Well, it's really just applying a thought that's already been had on other threads here about Elmal in Sartar, and how his worshipers could potentially become extremely important during the Windstop since Elmal is a Fire god who retains his life-giving warmth, unlike that glorified flashlight Yelmalio.😝

The Roman Empire had an agrarian society capable of metalwork, but I see your point all the same. Also, I doubt any GM would be so generous as to make Firshala a "pet deity." The interpretation of what Firshala and her cult are like should really be done based on what seems interesting and appropriate, not on what's most convenient to the players. That said, I'd be interested in hearing what other people's interpretations of Firshala are, having just read Griffin's Mountain myself recently. Though admittedly, what is established about Firshala is that her nature is Fire, which means her worship might mean salvation to the Balazarings who find themselves within the Windstop as she might at least prevent them from freezing to death before they can find new hunting grounds and hearths, if not providing help in more esoteric ways appropriate to however you'd interpret her powers with Fire. It could certainly be a quick way to grow the cult's membership and power at the least.

Spoilers, obviously. If you want to wait until the game comes out on your medium of choice to play it, you should probably stay away from this thread until then. I'm still essentially a Glorantha neophyte, so I don't really know how much of where the Six Ages lore adds to or contradicts/changes any of the stuff that is already known about the setting, something I'm nonetheless very interested in and would like to know what people more well-versed in this stuff (or who just have a cool idea) take away from the lore and mythology of the game. Since not everyone has had a chance to get it yet (I know a lot of people are waiting until it comes out for their medium of choice), so I thought that, as someone who does have the game and has played the crap out of it, I might make myself useful. To start with, I'd like to talk about the chief god of the Hyalorings and my personal favorite ever since I first played King of Dragon Pass, Elmal. As their chief god, they have a lot more legends and sayings and such about him than the Orlanthi later will in Dragon's Pass, so I think it'd be cool to talk about, starting with his Heroquest (or rather, "Ritual"), "Elmal Guards the Sunpath. Little Yelm is probably Yelmalio prior to losing his Fire (there's more evidence of this elsewhere, especially in "Nyalda's Bride Price"), and JonL suggested in the "Elmal Yelmalio thing" thread that Yonesh is Yavor, the warrior of the Fire Tribe who snuffed himself out to survive a battle with Umath (and made lightning darts from Umath's brains after he was killed), was torn apart by Orlanth so his bones could be made into weapons, and whose head was kept by him. I think the interesting thing here is that Elmal is depicted as an archetypal "Reluctant King," the good, virtuous man who dons the mantle of a ruler not because it is his birthright or the spoils of conquest, but because he must. It fits the Hyalorings, who take a very dim view of kings and kingship (to the extent that they don't have kings themselves) but nonetheless love Elmal as the king of gods. Elmal's kingship is justified by his reluctance, which is what sets him apart from the Pretender Suns who try to take the mantle of the sun out of greed and constantly try to equate Elmal with themselves by accusing him of believing he is the sun like they do. Elmal has a lot more of a family among the Hyalorings (and presumably the Samnali, i.e. the "Wheels" to the Hyalorings' "Riders"). After the death of Yelm, he eventually earns the hand of Nyalda (i.e. Ernalda) in "Nyalda's Bride Price," because he offers what none of the other suitors are willing to offer her (Freedom) and proves his strength by beating said suitors into line. Nyalda here is a former concubine of Yelm, BTW. Prior to Nyalda, though, Elmal is married to the goddess Nivorah, who is of course the goddess of the city of Nivorah that the Hyalorings and Samnali both come from. Presumably, that's who most of his children were mothered by. The named children who are probably Elmal's children with Nivorah include Osara (basically an Elmali version of Vinga), Verlaro, and Samnal. The one who is definitely Elmal's son with Nivorah is... Reladivus. Yeah, in "Taming the River," it is outright stated that Reladivus (whom the Dara Happans now consider a son of Yelm) is the son of Elmal and Nivorah. How did they eventually confuse Yelm's grandson with his son? My guess is that the answer is found in "Hyalor Tablet-Maker": I guess Manarlavus might actually have been as good as his word, at least as far as his subjects were concerned. And to fill the genealogical gap that removing Elmal as the emperor's son created, they simply replaced him with Reladivus. Unless this is just more of that thing where Vinga is considered both an aspect of Orlanth and his daughter by people and neither of these is incorrect.

No, the scythed chariot was actually a historical thing, it's just that they were of limited effectiveness. The Persians used them to break up the close ranks of Greek hoplites and allow the cavalry to charge (since horses are too smart to run into a seemingly solid mass), which they were at least somewhat successful at. They saw at least some use up until Roman times. There's also some debatable evidence that pre-Roman Britons used scythed chariots, and one appears in The Cattle Raid of Cooley as well. The Romans themselves might have experimented with a variant on this at some point, too, which would have been essentially a pair of cataphracts on horseback drawing a stripped-down "chariot" that was basically a bladed axle on wheels, though it's probably just some Roman guy throwing weird ideas at the wall. Still, it looks pretty cool in a really stupid way.

Or if you want to be Gloranthan Santa Claus, using mighty Rune Lord powers to pull off some kind of experimental Heroquest that involves carrying lots of gifts in a magic bag in a flying chariot and visit all the good little Orlanthi boys and girls in one night. For bonus points, Varnaval was apparently associated with the ordeeds, a kind of antelope who pulled chariots for the Andam Horde.

On the one hand, yeah, fair point, but on the other as someone who majored in history I tend to want the future to be informed by the past. I'm not saying they need to be exactly what they once were. I guess I didn't really phrase the question the way I meant it to be taken as, which is: "How do these old/new gods affect the society of those who worship them, and how do they change in turn in a new world?" If nothing else, chariot races might become popular with Orlanthi in more urbanized areas, with cultists of Mastakos, Varnaval and Saren all having races on holy days and maybe settling arguments and competitions in that way. I wonder if chariot races between cultists of Mastakos and Saren would make for a good way to peacefully solve arguments and ease tensions between Orlanth and Elmal worshipers if something like the Yelmalio schism starts to happen again during the Hero Wars? I don't think a cult that's too small would be able to support multiple rune lords. That said, turning chariots into vimana would certainly make them combat-effective to a terrifying degree. Glad you got some use out of me throwing out ideas. Joerg (for some reason it won't let me type after that tag, so now it's stuck at the end) seems pretty on the money about Varnaval being a "migrating pastoral raider" archetype, as well. And although his chariot is mentioned prominently in his write-up, I think it probably isn't as central to his myth as it is for Mastakos and Saren, who are explicitly the charioteers of greater gods, so you could potentially have his worshipers ignore that aspect in favor of other powers from him in places where a focus on chariots isn't practical (until you get to rune lord level and can ride Iron Rams - or perhaps Storm Rams - and/or fly around on a vimana). In which case, I feel like he might catch on with Orlanthi who are migratory and pastoral rather than tied to agriculture and settling down in villages and towns (and who are warlike raiders on top of that), something I bet at least a few Orlanthi will take to during the Hero Wars. A bunch of tattooed raiders riding in on horse-sized rams, their nobles and leaders flying around in chariots, raining death on their enemies below? Sounds like a worthy addition to the setting IMO. @Joerg

Huh. So Baroshi is almost like a chance to make your own god's story in the Hero Wars (when the Compromise is being sorely strained), since Baroshi's own was so short and he never reached maturity. Actually, with that and his Chaos-fighting powers he could almost be like one of the survivors of Ragnarok after Argrath gets most of the gods killed destroying the Devil. If it does indeed just come back anyway, Baroshi might be the first god to return to Man to help him fight him again. Actually, now I think it would be cool to have a story set in the Fourth Age where you're trying to rediscover whatever old gods are left and awaken their worship to fight off the return of the Devil, and the very first three the party discovers are whatever Three New Stars they resurrected and returned to the sky centuries ago.

Wow, where's that story? Oh, also, I'm looking through all the Lore articles in the game, and I found something interesting in "Taming the River." Reladivus is considered one of Yelm's Eight Sons, right? And he is, I think, considered to have been the God of Nivorah, rather than the son of its goddess. Another interesting thing is in "Hyalor Tablet-Maker." Nivorah dies while Elmal is on a quest to restore the sun's warmth ("Elmal Guards the Sunpath"), and Manarlavus sends legates to demand that the people of Nivorah build a dome. In Elmal's stead, Hyalor and Samnal join together for the first and only time to defy him. So then, does this mean that one truth about Elmal's place be that Elmal was forgotten by the Dara Happans because of Manarlavus, and that without Elmal they confused Reladivus for the now-missing son of Yelm?

Something I'm curious about: in "Elmal Guards the Sunpath," the Cold Sun gives its name as Yonesh when it encounters Elmal for the second time, and when it claims to be the sun, Elmal defies it by claiming that Yonesh is "riddled with storm runes" and would pollute whatever part of the great sky road he touched. Is the Cold Sun in this myth actually Vadrus? Meanwhile, in "Nyalda's Bride Price," when Nyalda is approached for marriage by many different suns, Little Yelm tries to use invisible chains to trap her in his palace and prevent her from escaping. Nyalda avoids his trap and flees to a hill that she beseeches for aid. The hill traps Little Yelm inside its depths, "where lurked a towering troll, who would keep him busy for a good long time." Is this perhaps related to Yelmalio losing his Fire to Zorak Zoran? I mean, Yelmalio's biggest myth is named after a hill...

You know, if we're speaking of marriage myths, Six Ages: Ride Like the Wind has the marriage myth of Elmal to Nyalda (the Hyaloring name for Ernalda), which is pretty good. I wonder if some variation on it is the myth used for Elmali who marry Ernaldans in Esrola (where Orlanth is kind of just one of Ernalda's many husbands) to this day?

If I had reactions left, I'd give you a "Thanks." I'm not nearly deep enough into Gloranthan lore to understand, like, half of that, which is largely why I put this question up to begin with. So, Siwend is actually one of Orlanth's oldest companions? That might fit; in the Hyaloring lore, Dostal was a god that the Hyalorings (and Samnali) only met after they left Nivorah, and who seems to come and go as he pleases. I was aware that Baroshi is from Snakepipe Hollow and his connection to Maran, and his write-up in the Eleven Lights implicitly states that his parents were demigods (saying they can't be worshiped because they were destroyed by a son of the Devil). Now that I was not aware of. I hadn't even considered connections to Flamal or Genert. I guess that makes Baroshi one of the last male Earth gods to be born? I wonder if that's the significance of his eternal state of childhood?