Shiningbrow

Maybe it was a combination? Who says one lot didn't ally with another (or 3 or 5) to bring this about??

5 hours ago, Aelex said:

Looking forward to haunt the PC`s, being all bored and silly on guard duty, with some propper Helldemons and Darkness elementals. Or maybe they are not even there, being on patrol when they return to the camp after hearing screams and then have to face the minions of the Black Eater while the massacre unfolds.

Maybe they're haunted because they ran in terror? (although, with a Fear, maybe there wasn't much choice - but they don't need to know that).

17 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

But then won’t all the players pick the non-priest priest option

For the priestly path, yes. (Although, if the GodTalker isn't doing GodTalker-y things, then I don't think the priests would continue to want that person to be a GodTalker).

But what about for a shaman's path? Or the Rune Lord's?

I'm pretty sure a lot of players would love to have a 1D10 DI option, along with the free enchanted iron gear (and almost guaranteed Aliied Spirit).

TBH, the Allied Spirit should be fairly irrelevant... one can cast Summon and Command Cult Spirit, and thus get themselves a nice spirit with cult spells (sure, doesn't have some of the other other advantages (continual mind-to-mind, exchange of spells, MPs & RPs, and view through the other's senses).

1 hour ago, soltakss said:

Oddi the Keen becomes Illuminated and cannot sense the Crimson Bat

From what I read, that's not actually the case (as mentioned previously). I don't think we should confuse "did not" with "can not".

As for my 2bolgs worth... according to the RQG, the SBully gets "a sense of unease, or even pain,". I would say that this no longer holds true - the Illuminate no longer feels uneasy by the sense of Chaos, and definitely not pained by it. However, that doesn't mean it can't be sensed. So, as mentioned previously, the nature of the sensing would change.

There's a problem with trying to associate sensory organs' information with our emotional responses to those sensations. One can "acquire" a taste to something - Usually, the actual sensation hasn't changed, just our reaction to it. We are no longer disgusted by broccoli or brussel sprouts. - but (for the most part*), our actual taste buds haven't changed, nor have the chemicals in the veggies.

"Unease" and "pain" sound more like emotional responses than actual physical sensations (especially the former).

(*yes, there is some adaptation as one grows older).

1 hour ago, Malin said:

I'm not picking on you personally (I really am not)

Don't worry, I did not in any way think it was personal 🙂

1 hour ago, Malin said:

In the groups I play, the players might want to experience Prax and would tell the GM, "Hey, it would be cool to go to Prax sometimes!" The GM would then be able to think and plan a hook to let that particular group go there that would fit the campaign...

It feels like some people read the rules as a document forbidding them to do things rather than as one enabling them to do cool shit they might never have considered before.

It wasn't about necessarily 'forbidding' them to do things... it's that the rules are fairly direct in stating that when you get to certain level of your advancement (ie, Rune level or full Shaman, or similar), then you are obligated to spend a large portion of your time (and money) in service to the cult (read: community - especially for a Shaman). It's stamped and repeated soooo many times in the main book.

So, while you may have advanced into Priest status of your local (or, in some cases, as it turns out, not so local) temple, and you are required to give 90% of your time - there's nothing official to guide GMs into explaining how those characters keep adventuring in far away lands. So, how is gallivanting throughout Prax going to be (I would add, 'legitimately') for, say, a newly ordained Priestess of the Nochet Ernalda Temple??? (Some may cite Argrath, but that's currently only relevant for a handful of years - and one would wonder if that's a sufficient reason). And, if they are heading to Prax to investigate this Argrath person, then part of that responsibility would include reporting back in a reasonable fashion.

How does the brand new Thane of Apple Lane (or high priest of Orgovale) justify being away from their new responsibilities for so long (assuming they are, and not doubling back home every couple of weeks)?

As has been said - It's not D&D, where PCs are generally beholden to nothing and no-one (not even their gods).

Personally, I don't think this sort of stuff should be handwaved away (or completely ignored)... nor should it fall all onto the shoulders of the GM. And, so, yeah, it would be good to have not only official guidance on this from Chaosium in the form of a chapter (or 3) in a book, but also that the "official playthrough" that is posted on YT should also adhere to this - not the "yeah, those are the rules I wrote, but we're just going to ignore them now - because it's more fun!" (It's pretty poor advertising for a game system to drop an important aspect of it and houserule because it's inconvenient to players).

11 hours ago, Geoff R Evil said:

Sorry don’t agree. First it’s easy enough to scale adventures, second you have hero quests which as others have shown there is enough information around to write those, and they are world changing. Then there is the fact much of the mythology is based upon war games, so eventually chars need to evolve to be able to lead large numbers of chars and there are already skirmish models for RQ.  More than enough to run campaigns for years, and I know several that have run that long.

sorry, but I disagree with you on this.

Sure, from an individual murder-hobo dungeoncrawl perspective, there's enough there.

But, RQ is about community - and there's nothing really in the official texts about what 'adventurers' do when they reach the high levels of actually leading said community. You get to be the Thane of Apple Lane, or of Orgovale Summer's new cult... but what does that entail?

What is Leika et al. doing for the 90% of her time when she's not off adventuring? (And, shouldn't the PCs be doing something similar? Or, as the point is being mad, they somehow get to ignore those rules?)

What's Kallyr been doing? (part of which has been mentioned somewhere - trying desperately to stop the clans and tribes from starting up all the clan warfare again.).

Neither are gallivanting off to Prax just for the fun of it. (Which is the issue - PCs generally heading off to wherever they want, for whatever reason they want).

Remember - the point we're discussing is the 90% time (and, to some extent, money) commitment required, as clearly stated in the various official texts.

Now, if there's justifications for it (which, I suspect, is what people will suggest) - then all well and good. But,

14 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Hopefully the GM Book or Sartar Campaign (if they aren't the same thing) will cover this, but it's a long time coming. With the power boost to starting characters, a lot of games will have run up against this problem already.

So, you acknowledge that it's a problem, and then also expect the GMs to sort this thing out for themselves.... until this gets addressed somewhere officially by Chaosium (but that might take a while).

I would also say, that given your second sentence there, especially "With the power boost to starting characters", this should have been sorted out years ago - officially - very much because of the latter part of this sentence.

18 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

And it's very different to the main example that we have out there to the public - The White Bull Campaign - in which there is a full shaman with no societal responsibilities at all and no explanation as to why.

Right... which would be "ignoring the rules".

1 hour ago, svensson said:

The whole point of RQG is making the heroes part of a community, with oaths and ties and relationship and responsibilities. Lone wolf murder hobos are for DnD, and RQG has consistently emphasized the differences between the two play styles.

This!!!

DP

18 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

why are there rules about priesthood for us irl, if the first thing we (irl) have to do is to not follow the rules for our pc once they reach the priest or shaman or rune lord status ?

This very accurately hits the nail on the head!

One of the defining features of RQ (in particular the current edition) is the sense of community that's supposed to be strongly emphasised when building PCs, and creating 'adventures' for them to go and handle. So, good for "low level" characters.

Yet, once said PCs get to a certain level, those rules (and the whole sense of community) tend to get thrown to the side. It's really not very well thought out.

There's a strong need to justify the likely actions (constant adventuring) of the characters.

And, what's the risk if they don't?

Surely, the ransom (and probably also incomes) of those Rune levels shouldn't be getting paid. The Rune Lord doesn't get easy access to the highly magical items (and, if they've been showing a strong tendency to not be a part of the community, won't be getting their iron gear just handed over to them)

I can't see a 'community' tribal member paying 100L to this wandering shaman who is supposed to be supporting the community, being happy when said shaman then walks off with all the cast/trade goods.

And, when they start to really power up, just who is going to support said wannabe hero when they want to go on a Heroquest??

One thing I've always like about RQ is the need for 'sacrifice', epitomised by having to sacrifice your POWer for the bigger magics. So, if your character is going to be a wandering Rune level, outside of a stable community, I think there needs to be some sacrifices made there, too. Maybe, e.g., for the shaman, the spirits are less interested in bargaining with someone who only brings themselves to the party, and not a community of worshippers (represented by lowered access to magics or more expensive bargains). Perhaps lowered RP replenishments for those Rune Priest and Lords who don't actually help sustain the community? (after all, holding a worship ceremony with just 1 person isn't really much of a thing, is it?? It's pretty much what ever initiate has to do for themselves when they're out alone in the world)

17 hours ago, Joerg said:

Depends on whether they are incarnate or not. Incarnate demigods - for a given value of mortal - retain free will and may act as they please (within their divine and mortal nature). Demigods as cult object in Godtime are bound by the Compromise.

Worshipped mortals might be limited in their choices by the force of their worshippers binding them to their feats.

Orgorvale is the child of two demigods, Vingkot (son of Orlanth and Janerra Alone, a mortal of the On Jorri folk) and the Summer Wife (daughter of Tada - avatar of Genert - and presumably Ernalda). She, and her husband Ulanin, are living and dying in Godtime, their presence there imprinted on the make-up of the world, engraved in the myth.

Can a deity that died in the Gods War be worshipped? Of course - all of the participants in the Ritual of the Web were technically dead.

Orgorvale is at best a godling, but she has become a genius loci for Orgovaleland - the Quivini foothills - and would have been worshipped as such by her descendants and their in-laws in the region. The tribe named after her (rather than her rider husband) disappeared when the Kingdom of Orlanthland came into being following the Gbaji Wars. Most of the bloodlines of her descendants were killed during the fall of the EWF and the Dragonkill - mostly by the Pelorian invaders or famine. Some of her descendants made it south into Heortland, from where e.g. the Red Cow clan returned into their ancestral lands.

The EWF managed to draconize her cult, projecting it onto a dream dragon (possibly of a Dragon Speaker?), making her original persona irrelevant. Events in the GM Screen Adventure Book may change that.

Well, I'm reading this as a bit of a history lesson for Orgovale Summer... but doesn't really address the relevant questions - how fragile/powerful is she compared to others with that classification (demi-god or godling...), and how much freedom from the Compromise does she have?

If your history is correct, she was alive during the GodTime - and thus, in theory (I imagine, but perhaps not), should be bound by the Compromise.

However, like Jar-Eel (and the Red Moon herself), she's also managed to bypass that by not being there for the Compromise itself, and has now come back to us (yes, I'm obviously referring to the GA scenario).

But, it also sounds like you're thinking she is just a (slightly?) more powerful version of, say, Tarndisi... and thus, quite fragile. And potentially manipulable (relative to the other big names on the board).

16 minutes ago, KungFuFenris said:

That actually reminds me about a thought I had.

What ARE DemiGods? Are they bound by the Compromise?

If Jar-Eel and Harrek (and later, Argrath) are "demi-gods", and not merely very-capital H Heroes - then no, they're not really. (unless, it's a very flexible Compromise!)

But... certainly at least 3 we've mentioned are (were) human/mortal.

A new demi-goddess awakens.

We know almost nothing about her from years ago, and even less now that she's just awoken after a short nap.

But, since we're entering the age of the Hero Wars, I would think that having another such ally (or enemy) would be very useful.

However, I do wonder just how fragile/powerful she would really be.

Because, I'm sure that Jar-Eel would like to have some words with her! (Either, she'd feel it directly herself, being a similar being, or her spies would pass this information along.)

What, exactly, does it mean to be a 'demi-god', other than having the title (she only gets it because of her parents and grandparents, not because of an particular powers or abilities she's displayed).

Which sort of means - how much value would she actually provide to anyone who allies (or kidnaps) her - other than merely reputation.

17 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

My own interpretation is that when the edge touches skin, the remaining damage is doubled.  Simple.

I'd think that as well... except I'd say it also affects spirits (although, that's certainly not RAW)

On 2/17/2024 at 6:11 AM, Karlak One-eye said:

Many plus points for “Monrough Doctine”!

Since they lost the fire aspect of their rune, it sort of makes it a Cold War between them...

10 hours ago, Geoff R Evil said:

Lot of overthinking here. If you go with the no. Then ALL existing crit, special and weapon damage rolls work exactly as they all have. Only once damage is done is the doubling effect of the Humakti bonus added on. Very simple…and in line with the spirit of the stated intent of the gift in my opinion. YGMV

Spirits and their magic points??

54 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Special Attack vs Normal Parry

Defender’s parrying
weapon takes damage
over its HP, with same
amount of damage
going to adjacent hit
location.

Right, this is where the complexity really kicks in.

Here we have weapon damage being done to the shield, then going on to the arm. But the arm might have AP, so you can't double the weapon damage for the purposes of damaging the shield, because it still hasn't hit the AP.

Since the damage is applied to both the shield and the arm separately, I suppose you could treat the two sets of damage independently:

Weapon damage: 20
Shield HP: 12
Arm AP: 7

Shield HP reduces the 20 down to 8

Shield takes 8x2=16 and breaks

Arm takes 8-7=1x2=2

This is the rule that brought it to my attention - the party Humakti challenged the NPC leader to a 1 on 1 duel (but, I had the Humakti #2 take the duel, as she has that geas (never refuse a 1-1 challenge) - and it avoids potential blood feuds).

PC's second round hit was crit, vs her parry (with sword, no less!)

Broadsword blessed with double damage after armour... (thus, 18pts damage - max slashing damage)

I ruled that the sword took 12 points*, then I decided that the parry deflected the blade, so rolled a hit location (doesn't really make sense for this to automatically be the arm), which was abdomen, with 3 points of cuirbuilli - and thus, 3 points to the guts - doubled to 6 points... and she's down! (better than taking all 18 I suppose). And, her sword should be shattered.

However.... for  normal attack, one needs to overcome the HP of a weapon before it's allowed to be damaged (usually for 1 point) - which sounds a LOT like AP! Which would then mean - a weapon and shield has AP equal to HP... And this, I think, makes sense.

Alternatively - if the sword has AP equal to HP, then any blow would need to overcome the 12 AP, and then any excess could be doubled to wipe out the sword's HP (which is what you've calculated).

With Scotty's 'yes', it would mean that a parrying broadsword would take off 6 of the 18 damage - because it would be doubled to 12 - destroying the sword.... leaving 12 points to hit the hit location (in this case, with 3 points of armour) - and thus, the remaining 9 points would be doubled.

Part of the problem is that weapons and shields don't officially have AP (anymore).

(*I think I misunderstood the rules here).

5 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

is there a famous cult of Humakti lumberjacks? 

Sarzdorf trolls? 😁

I've just run the Cattle Raid, and as I read Erlanda's stat block (p100), I see the geas, but no mention of the Gift...

Any ideas?

Am I just not seeing it?

(looking at her skills, she's got Sense Assassin at 60% - so, could be that... but 60% is a fair bit  higher than 30%, and that's a LOT of experience checks!)

On 2/18/2024 at 5:22 AM, Tatterdemalion Fox said:

According to the now non-canon Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, Elmali can only be men, though women can worship him through Redaylda. I think there’s space to explore Heortling gender roles there. To stand guard is an inherently Air-gendered action; to care for the horses, Earth-gendered.)

Just have something like a Vinga situation... (but not the crappy "But it's really a male Orlanth in disguise - because obviously women can't really be warriors" - keep the 'yes - was, is, and always will be, a separate female goddess in her own right!')

On 2/18/2024 at 7:36 AM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

On 2/18/2024 at 12:29 AM, Mao said:

To make Yelmalio more sympathetic you really have to emphasize the 'suffering God' aspects of him and how his purity and justice and truth are things people can grasp onto to keep them going rather than just something that makes the Sun Domers super culturally arrogant.

I think that boat has sailed.  There is just too much official-ish material where Yelmalio is presented as lame insufferable pretentious sexist deluded arrogant jerks that few players would want to play.  Like @Mao, I don't get the "joke".

No offence intended to either of you, but that comes across as a little to 'woke' to me - making cults (including/especially favourite ones) fit into a 'players should like the cult because it reflects our more modern values'. (sort of reminds me of how Babeester Gor has been 'tamed', and the eating of trollkin is sort of overlooked, and how slavery has been reduced).

It makes for much less of the moral ambiguity that RQ was trying to get across.

Obviously, YGWV.

On 2/17/2024 at 11:14 PM, Darius West said:

Elmal is a Thunder Brother too.

?? Where's this?

So, Gift #10 says, "Bless a specific weapon to do double damage (once armor is penetrated)."

Does this include against weapons or shields? (and, is suppose I should add, against spirits when hitting their MPs?)

On 2/17/2024 at 11:07 PM, Darius West said:

All we need now is a "Mount and Blade" compatible Prax mod, or equivalent and we could walk around in it.

Or Elder Scrolls (particularly after the Skywind project is completed).

19 hours ago, Joerg said:

There are different cults of the cold sun. The Golden Spearman is different from the Sunhorse Rider (Kargzant) or the Sunhorse itself (e.g. Galanin). There should be a Lightfore figure or two outside of Genertela. Is Vangono a Lightfore?

I'd like to see much more details on the differences in the variations in the cults books - and with the Little Son in particular. Not merely "In Sartar, there is a variant called Elmal... that is all, thank you"... but full differences. Such as, it appears the Elmali don't get the gift/geas thing that Yelmalions do... and I would expect a different array of spells (especially that "forbidden" spirit spells bit, which I don't think reflects Elmal. Another obvious would be giving them Firespear, but not having access to Sunspear. And, of course, the different cult skills).

5 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I await the Solar book to learn of these victories by Yelmalio.

Photos - or it didn't happen 😄

This looks awesome!

Any way to get this to the rest of the world?