Shiningbrow

13 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

1. No.  Having the armor / magic work sometimes but not others is even more confusing / non-sensical.
2. Parrying with natural weapons and Martial Arts are really more of a "Dodge".  That skill exists in RQG - use it.

1. Natural armour protects as normal.

2. Dodge is indeed a different skill to Parry (or Martial Arts). You can't* very well say that you're rolling your Parry, when in fact you mean Dodge. Nor should you be suggesting one should use a skill which is vastly inferior (skill % wise) just because it makes for a bit of a conflict with RAW, and messes things up otherwise.

Besides, on the last point, it seems your trying to introduce an element of logic, to explain why something else doesn't logically work... I find that odd......

(* well, ok, you can.. .but it wouldn't make sense.)

13 hours ago, Zit said:

The particular case of a parrying weapon (and shield) is a bit different but is clearly detailed, so there is no ambiguity here.

(and the OP is about protection magic)

Let's get more specific then - natural weapons (especially with a successful Martial Arts roll). This is especially so with a) weapons such as a cestus, and/or b) where the creature has natural armour (especially looking at Uz here).

Would you allow the Protection spell to work in those cases with a successful parry against a crit?

16 hours ago, David Scott said:

Someone else pays the point of POW to become its priest. It is made easier as it has no current priest. 

You probably think the answer is obvious, but...

So, when the priest is resurrected, they then need to pay the POW cost again??

Or... should one assume that the connection gradually fades away, rather than instantaneously upon death? (given how it works with allied spirits...).

And, I presume there's no great harm to not having such a connection during the week or so (other than the Wyter losing access to some spells, and the community not having a direct, physical connection with the wyter)....

13 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

We're getting to Dune-style Shields here? 🙂

That's sort of how I had always imagined them.... (well, after I knew of Dune... which goes back a few decades)

53 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

The reason crits ignore Protection & Shield is to allow smaller weapons, skillfully or stealthily used, to be useful.  A rare instance of Game Balance.

Perhaps I haven't played enough, but I don't recall any time where that's made any significant difference... but, I suppose it would when facing trollkin and the like.

51 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

(Say a Humakti with a geas)

Excellent point!!!

51 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Why do the magical armor pieces exactly match the size & shape of your existing armor?

What if you're not wearing any?

30 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

"is it armor?"

No, Protection and Shield are not actual armour. They are not individual pieces that can be moved around, put on, taken off, etc.

They are magic, and for want of better terms that put it in less Earthly terms, they are bits of energy that surround a person, and acts in a way similar to actual pieces of metal (or cloth, leather, shell, etc).

It's Runequest.. not Elder Scrolls where you do actually summon those pieces of armour for each body part.

11 minutes ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

Woah. There was nearly no Vol. 04 or any others after that

In Australia we have poisonous spiders, box jellyfish that can stop your heart, a whole bunch of venomous snakes, and sharks

There's also the 'rip tide' and (as I discovered first hand yesterday as nearly the last thing I ever discovered) something called 'rip currents' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip_current]

I can't swim well at all, but I drew it from somewhere, and fortunately remembered the advice to swim across rather than against

It was a narrow narrow thing though

Everything seems bright and wonderful today, I can tell you!

Doesn't have to be sentient to want to kill you 😛

(ps. you forgot to mention the drop bears!!! And crocs....)

Glad to hear you're ok! And you remembered your swimming lessons! (you were swimming between the flags, weren't you???)

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

But the Stabilize Iron exception is explicitly cited in the spell description whereas Ward Against Weapons has no such exception.  

Oh, I'm not questioning the phrasing.

I'm questioning the logic. I really hate arbitrary rules that don't actually make any sense...

48 minutes ago, Scotty said:

The easiest way to look at this, is does the spell act as armor, absorbing damage? If so, it's ignored, if not, it's not. As usual specific spells may overrule this.

• Shield - ignored by crits
• Protection - ignored by crits
• Ward Against weapons - does not act as armor, unaffected by crits
• Dampen Damage - does not act as armor, unaffected by crits
• Stabilize Iron - special effect, armor is unaffected by criticals.

Note that even if the armor still effects, the maximum special damage will very likely overwhelm it.

This seems to be an arbitrary rule that doesn't make sense...

Other than "Because the rules say so", can you give me an in-game reasonable theory as to why this would be so?

After all, the rules are supposed to be some sort of simulation of, and in some way (although, not in all) represent, the world.

Honestly, I think it comes down to how you see a weapon's critical actually working mechanically.

I personally find it odd that a better blow from the attacker somehow becomes immune to the all around magic that protects people. For normal armour, I can see the logic - you hit a place where the armour wasn't. (for the Special version, you get the timing and momentum just right for the extra damage)

But, I can't see that logic working with magical protections - that is, there aren't any gaps in that magical aura of protection!

To add to the above discussion directly, especially about WAW - the dwarfs have a spell that enchants Iron so that it protects against criticals as well - thus, there's a precedent already in place for magic being able to do this (which is even less logical than excluding WAW or Shield/Protection from doing so).

45 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

[As an aside, Chalana Arroy as the White Goddess has always had an association with the Altinae and the White Camp of Innocence/Wisdom. It's a concept that can fit with a group known as the Sisters of Mercy.]

But assuming such 'innocence' is non-determinable, we might give the dragonewts an ability to sense their Runes and interpret the high Harmony/Fertility combination as something potentially useful to eat.

The warrior dragonewts are carnivorous so the debate still makes sense.

Warrior dragonewts are also tested on the lines of: curiosity and apathy, leader and follower, impulsive and cautious, nervous and calm, and suspicious and trusting.

So one is Curious - what does this mix of Harmony & Fertility taste like, and is it good for one? Possibly help make them calm and trusting. 

The other is Suspicious, maybe Apathetic - and feels that this mix will entangle them in the earth, or that it will dampen their efforts to become more impulsive.

Oh, I was just thinking that the concept of 'innocence' is somewhat of a human idea (unless referring to it's meaning of 'inexperienced in some aspect'). Most humans are 'innocent' to the idea of dying (themselves, not watching others die)... whereas that's something that dragonewts would be very familiar with.

6 hours ago, Darius West said:

If a shaman dies, but self-resurrects, what happens to their fetch, if it is in an animal?  I'd love to hear some opinions.  Thanks Scotty for your detailed response btw.

Fetches aren't in animals - but are only visualised as animals...

13 hours ago, jajagappa said:

one arguing that the flesh of Innocence can remove an Entanglement from the world,

That would imply an understanding of 'innocence', and that it would apply to a CA healer for some reason...

15 hours ago, Scotty said:

Only Sunspear can cause collateral damage as it has a radius. But neither Thunderbolt or Lightning do, the spell descriptions are for a single target.

Then clearly YGV. Lightning certainly can hit someone it wasn't supposed to if they get in the way. And, if the player rolled a Fumble on the Rune, I'd suggest they both would hit the wrong target (as an option other than merely it fizzles, taking the RPs).

15 hours ago, CatLark said:

You are the first on to say that Lightning does collateral damage to allies. nowhere does it call it an AoE spell - Sunspear is the only on that mentions a radius - no one else has said that lightning works like DND and has a direct line from your hand or sword to creature you are targeting - "Summons a blast of lightning,"  you are taking on an aspect of the deity - would the god need to be that careful? 

I'm not trying to suggest that Lightning is AoL (hence the separation by the comma).

Lightning specifically states "A blast of crackling energy projects from the caster." So, yes, "has a direct line" seems appropriate.

"would the god need to be that careful?" Yes. I'm sure there would be a few occasions in myth where the god has hit the wrong target. They're not omniscient, you know.

I would say... most spells that are obviously one target specific (Disruption, Demoralize, Sever Spirit, Madness, Mindblast) won't have any problems as long as you can reasonably be able to see them during the MR.

However, not only AoE spells like Sunspear, but also Thunderbolt and Lightning can have friendly fire if they're in the way. Sunspear is obvious, because it has a radius. Lightning because it'll go directly from the finger/speartip to the target - and stuff anyone in the way. So, you'd need see more than just the head or the occasional limb sticking out every so often.

On 12/11/2023 at 10:56 PM, Zalain said:

I had a orlanthi/storm bull character that wasnt impulse or violent at all.

Sounds about right! Remember tht Orlanth has other roles (such as being Bards and the occasional Lawspeaker).

Cool, controlled Stormbull sounds good! As long as they fight the Chaos when it comes.

(besides, what would a child raised in a Stormbull cult be like? Would they rebel against their parents' ideals/fanatacism??)

On 12/11/2023 at 10:56 PM, Zalain said:

I had Lhankor Mhy initiate that didnt like to investigate... Emmm... Nothing.

Most don't. They prefer to stay safe and warm in their temples. reading through manuscripts, and writing out the occasional missive for someone else (and get paid for it). The LM adventurers are the rare (and annoying) ones.

On 12/11/2023 at 10:56 PM, Zalain said:

i had a shaman follower of Daka Fal, that NEVER became incorporate, used axis mundi or or talked to his ancestors...). 

If a child "got the calling", but didn't really want to follow that path, then it makes sense! That's actually a fairly normal thing, even in the 'real world', and it can take decades for someoene to finally come around (and sometimes - perhaps often) never!

Then of course, there are those whose parents needed to pay for a service, and do so by 'donating' their child to become an assistant (again, against the will of the child).

22 hours ago, Richard S. said:

I don't think the Runegate Yelmalians have any more connection to Lhankor Mhy than the Sun Dome does. Even going back to Storm Tribe I'm not seeing anything.

I wasn't thinking from a cult pespective per se, but from a traditional Orlanthi (the peoples) perspective.

I'd probably go simple - a Chalana Arroy personage points out a Malia temple in the area that needs destroying.

Disease spirits everywhere, and thus, lots of POW to be gained by defeating them!

Amongst the other things people have already said, there's a couple of other things not brought to the table from within the game (i.e, not  relating to @g33k's post).

The first is - you state he's a "Yelmalio" initiate, but is this the Sun Dome new type, or is it an Elmali holdover/traditionalist one? If there's a good Elmal connection, then you can make it work easier!

Secondly, LM doesn't really care that much about most other cults - but they do care about who they take in at an individual level. This may go against g33k, but you don't automatically get to initiate into a cult just because you have the skills! As per the Lightbringers book, they'd expect a healthy dose of time as a Lay Member before even considering initiation. There are two Lay options - pay and go (worshipper), and Apprentice. The first is simple - hand over some money, and you get to pay for some training. The second is a dedication to the god through time spent being a student... like, all of your time! Then, to Initiate to the higher levels, there's a couple of paths - if one was only a pay and go, then you need to convince the hierarchy - average of Best 'Sage' skill (e.g. Lore, Cartography, etc) and (INT x 5). If they were an Apprentice, then it's automatic... then, to remain an Initiate, you've got to stay at the temple and read/write for the rest of your life!! (well, not really, but still..... 90% of your time has just vanished).

So, logically, there's not really a good reason to join LM except to get free training in one area. Not becoming an initiate still allows you access to the same skills - it's just more expensive.

I completely agree with @French Desperate WindChild - he *needs* to ask the Yelmalio officials if they'll let him join at anything over Pay & Go worshipper. The time committment is too great otherwise.

What might make sense is for the Yelmalio hierarchy to decide they need a scribe, and thus will pay for his training in R/W, and maybe some other Lore or similar. But, this is really only going to work on the 1 adventure per season model. The rest is spent cloistered away.

Sorcery is not happening... certainly not in any short term. Due to the amount of time and effort required to use it, it clashes with the far more important aims of the cult of getting Initiates able to bring in money and knowledge (i.e, learning to R/W as well as the Sage skill). And, in a small city, there won't be many who even know any. And will have a limited selection of spells (and, as mentioned previously, Yelmalio doesn't allow it - although, I personally see a difference between meldek godless sorcery, and Lhankoring magic)

22 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

or anoher view : Why 100% of "professional" warriors npc we meet in our adventure are not weapon master at 21yo ? It is so easy with the rules !

Because not everyone min-maxxes....  They don't spend huge chunks of their skills on the sort of stuff that adventurers do. Only warrior types do that.

We're OT.......

p31. Last paragraph "and which he kept for himself and his personal favorites." - I suspect this should instead read "kept for himself as his personal favorites." (especially given the preceding paragraph's last line - " instead retained as the god’s personal favorite."

(otherwise, who are these 'personal favorites'??)

14 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Seems to only apply to PCs, same as with Worship POW gain rolls, which makes sense as the game world would be utterly bonkers otherwise.

I think this is a misstep in a simulationist game (the PCs have different rules than everyone else, which isn't very sim), but the alternative (applying these rules to NPCs) is worse

I'd say.... it's exaggerated for the PCs - but otherwise still works. After all, you should expect someone working at the same job to be 'master' level of it after 40 years.

6 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

do we consider that anyone gains +5% /year  in their best weapon so all 40+ year old people are weapon master ?

I'm not sure how you're getting this bit of math to work.

Even by RAW for PCs, that's not going to happen.

Besides which, if NPCs aren't gaining regular POW, then their community is going to suffer - badly! The Wyter won't get paid, nor will people be able to advance to the priesthood.

On 11/30/2023 at 4:56 AM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I agree.  It's just punitive.  Everybody has ignored or hand waved ("of course, going to XXX is a cult duty, just like your last 24 random adventures were, by strange coincidence, also cult duty") this rule for 40 years.  Nor do the NPCs seem to follow it. 

I disagree!

It's not 'punitive', it's world-building. And, for me, it would annoy me the same way it annoys me about that other big TTRPG which has character classes with very little effort to build a world around them - it's all just "I want to do X, so I do....".

That means, for a good game, the GM and players should come up with an appropriate scenario (and campaign hooks) that make it feasible for the 90% time commitment to make sense. (and for it to be pulled back on track when it goes astray!) In a way that's not too different to using Passions... and worship ceremonies.

I presume you've read a LOT more of the published scenarios and campaigns than I have, but I'll ask anyway - which NPCs are you referring to that aren't following such restrictions?

4 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

This might work, but then you have to ask yourself "what do they use the POW for?" Why would the average initiate settle for a mere 3 Rune Points, when they're so extremely good?

One reasonable answer might be that you have to dump POW into the wyter at a reasonable rate, but in that case, so should the PCs. 

(For Mostali, it's easy, though - their magic.)

Well, yes, I agree...

Perhaps it might be better to say one gains 1 nett POW gain every few years - but 10 years would be terribly low, and Priests and God-Talkers would be extremely rare.

6 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

but in that case, so should the PCs.

Ummm, yes??? What's your point?/ 🙃