Kloster

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A lot of truth there. I'm not a big fan of many of the "old time" western programs, as they tended to stampt that old "goodie-goodie early-mid cultural values" onto the west, much like everything else from that era.

I like spaghetti westerns though, and some other interpretations.

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Same for me. But some old Peckinpah, or Stagecoach, Winetou (no, not Winetou), the magnificent sven, erh seven.

Runequetement votre,

Kloster

I'm glad it isn't a licensed version of ERB's settings... that frees it up a lot, content wise, and keeps anyone from having to pay exhorbitant licensing fees.

If this really comes off it's gonna be pretty darn great...

I've already got a minds-eye full of swashbuckling sabre fights on skyships zipping over alien ruins and strange jungles full of dinosaurs... with some half-naked green princess eagerly waiting rescue.

Why 'half' naked? :innocent:

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

1H stick/sword/axe is more common, but most schools also train 2 weapon use, and some also train primarily 2 weapon use.

SGL.

Thanks for the precision. I didn't knew for the axe.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

My son was pretty tough-minded as a youngster. He was watching werewolf movies with me when he was 4 years old. Watching them, and enjoying them.

He was very interested in my gaming activities, and insisted that I run a Call of Cthulhu game for him. So I agreed to "moderate" Wendigo for him. I think what upset him at the end was losing the game more than the shock and outrage of having his brain transported to Yuggoth.

But the experience did not shatter his young psyche. He read most of Lovecraft when he was in high school, and he currently games World of Darkness: Vampire and Dungeons & Dragons: Eberron.

Although I've never been able to get him to try Call of Cthulhu again. . . .

Impressive. By sheer curiosity, how old is he now ? My wife wants to know, because even if SHE is the CoC at home, she's a bit afraid of what influence I may have on him. I think that I lost my chance when she discovered what I had in mind when speaking of musical education.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Unfortunately, I think that's part of the problem. Older gamers may still have grown up at a time when cowboys were the big heroes (that was still going on when I was a kid - late 60's/early 70's - but it was the tail end of it), so I think the interest in a straight western setting is very limited.

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My first answer was that I'm perhaps too old for the mainstream tastes. Having re-read the introduction thread, I now think a lot of us are, even if western made a comeback in the theaters in the 90's that allowed our younger BRPers to know something about this once flamboyant movie genre.

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Of course, the beauty of a western setting is it could go in any number of directions - straight, supernatural, steampunk ("The Wild Wild West" anyone?).

True, even if I count wild wild west (the real one, without Will Smith) as almost straight classical, although a bit deranged, not as steampunk. I've tried it (with Western Parade, a swiss amateur production), and it took 2 games to transform a game envisionned somewhere between the magnificent seven and the good, the bad and the ugly in something ... weird.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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My favorite Call of Cthulhu experience, though, came when I ran Alone Against the Wendigo for my pre-school age son (he was probably about 5 at the time). His character's ultimate fate was brain extraction and a one-way trip to Yuggoth; at which point, he jumped up from the table and declared, "H. P. Lovecraft is a terrible writer who writes terrible things!"

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5 years old, wow. A bit young. I think my 3 1/2 year old son will wait a bit more.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

And you'll note I've granted that one.

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True.

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Widely use and dominant are not the same thing.

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True, but it was dominant in europe for the non armored, non shield duels from 1500 to 1650. It died because of the apparition of lighter thrusting weapons that were faster and stronger, allowing to parry without loosing too much time and to present a smaller, less lethal surface to the adversary. This in itself lead to the new maneuvers we still know (the lunge is invented by Vigiani around 1620).

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Again, I've never questioned it occured; I'm questioning your statement that it was the default case.

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I told it never was dominant. For what I've seen, most kendo/kenjutsu techniques are dodges, not parry, but as I'm not a practicioner, I can't say much.

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Not all escrima/kali schools even teach two stick technique, however, which doesn't suggest to me its a default either.

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All the fights I've seen are, but I'm not an expert.

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Again, the examples of asian sword technique I've seen tell me quite the opposite. I wouldn't want to say how practical it is for weapons that do all (mace) or most (axe) of their damage with mass, because I simply don't know, but there slashing weapons where parrying is the default way to use them defensively by all evidence I have.

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I've never seen nor practiced with mace nor axe. And none of the books I've read are speaking of it, so same comment as you on those.

For the asian styles I've seen (not practiced), ie kendo and eskrima, it was either dodges, or 2 weapon fighting.

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It still keeps you alive, and dodging is not quick either, especially in armor.

That's for sure, with a metal armor, dodge is slow, but people wearing armor were, at least in europe, either carrying a shield (the ultimate parrying tool) or were using a 2 handed weapon. I don't know for other areas.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Current RPGs:

BRP: RQIII

Non BRP: Champions

Past and significant:

BRP: RQII, RQIII, SB1, Hawkmoon, CoC

Non BRP: Champions, Shadowrun, Vampire, Cyberpunk, ADD1, JB007

Non RPG: Civilization, Car Wars, Britania, World in Flames

Past and non significant:

BRP: None

Non BRP: Lots of (Aftermath, Bushido, flashing blades, Daredevils, D&D1, MERP, Rolemaster,...)

Non RPG: Lots of, including quite a number of wargames

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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That, as much else here in life, have something to do with quantum physics I believe. :innocent:

SGL.

(NB: moved the thread to the correct subforum)

I always knew computers were linked to voodoo. I now stand corrected, they are linked to Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

Thanks for the move. I wanted to made it a poll, but couldn-t find the "create poll" button.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

What do you think of the "New Thread Button"?

Why is it on the right of the "post reply" button on the bottom of the page and on the left at the top of the page? :innocent:

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Hello Jason,

Does the MR include a 'declaration of intention' phase?

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

An allied spirit is in mind-link with its master, so can see through its master's eyes. So, unless the Runemaster is unconscious, the allied spirit can cast spells quite happily. It can also cast spells on its master with range touch as it is effectively touching its master at all times.

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Thanks for the clarification.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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Now, there I would disagree.

I don't know the penalties in BRP for doing something difficult, but if you had a problem that was difficult (-50%) and a very skilled person could do this just about every time he tried it, then he would have a skill of 150%. It's difficult to generalise about these things without concrete examples to back them up, but I would say that a lot of experts would have skills way above 100%.

If you use the CoC way of difficulties (1/2 skill for Hard), that means he has over 200%, not counting he has situational modifiers. And it seems the new BRP works that way. So, skills over 250% should be feasible.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Guns of the Wild West era were fairly inaccurate. I remember seeing a cowboy series (film?) where there was a gunfight and everyone grabbed the womenfolk and kids and pulled them off the street because the fight was full of wild shots that smashed nearby windows.

So, I'd give handguns an Accuracy score/Penalty. You could even have a special gun that was less inaccurate than normal guns of that model.

As has been stated, you need professions, skills, weapons, but also equipment prices and travel costs (pre- and post-railroad).

If you wanted a mystical approach, then look no further than Kung Fu, a series that combined westerns and eastern mysticism quite nicely. You could also throw in Native American religion as well, if you wanted, for a more RQ-style take on magic.

Good ideas.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'd say one of the main benefits of a setting book is the background material. You can probably put it together yourself pretty easily, but it's much better to have all the information in a neat, RPG-oriented package. So, that includes maps, sample locations (typical small towns, farms, etc.), cultural and historical notes, technology (beyond weapons - transport, communication, medicine). There should certainly be enough for a decent-sized RPG book.

Re: Realistic weapons stats, it might help to make them more acceptable if it was pointed out to players that these work both ways - and chances are that the PCs, as in most RPGs, will be individually better-armed than the opposition. On balance, they keep PCs alive more than they make life difficult for them. There is also a different tone in Western-style play in my experience, in that it tends to be more 'first blood' than 'to the death'.

And I have add my vote in agreement with Kloster, I see no need to add supernatural elements to a Wild West setting.

This is exactly what I want.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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Care to give a citation to two weapon technique being the dominant one during the fencing period? I don't question it occured--it obviously did, but much of that was because you could do a _bind_ and still attack that way, something you can't do with a single, non-flexible weapon. But I have no evidence its actually superior for parrying, per se, unlike the obvious advantage present with a shield.

Not counting the shield (which is of course the main parrying weapon, widely used from the bronze age to the renaissance):

- The florentine style is a rapier plus a parrying weapon (mainly a dagger). Widely used in renaissance Italy, dominant in european duels from 1500 up to around 1650, when the better cups and the introduction of quillons allowed for 1H parry with purely thrusting weapons (Giacomo de Grassi and Vigiani).

- Niten’ichi (or Ni-To Kenjutsu) is a sword plus a parrying weapon. Usually, katana plus wakisashi. Never was dominant, but has been quite used.

- Philipinos Eskrima, done with 2 sticks or 2 swords. Dominant in the Philipines.

The single weapon for attacking and parry is feasible almost only with the modern, light thrusting only weapons.

Parrying with a cutting weapon risk to damage your own weapon.

Parrying with a heavy weapon is slow.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

True, but the same effect applies in BRP. A crtical from an implaling weapon like a spear or sword is typically going to do enough damage to kill a character. An 18 point arrow or spear hit that bypasses armor will kill over 99% of PCs. So the hit locations don't make the game any more deadly as far as crticals are concerned.

In fact, in that case, hit locations reduce lethality because the damage done can not bring the location below destruction (minus starting value) and the THP taken is equal to the damage taken to the location. Of course, if the location is head, chest or abdomen, this is instant death.

So, for criticals, I agree, hit locations don't change anything.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

It still takes up extra time. You can almost guarentee if anyone else is attacking you, they'll hit first at that point. And that's true no matter where you sit on the prep issues.

True, it's a risk.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I would love to see one, but it would likely have to have some twist or supernatural element to make it more accessible to a player base today.

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This is exactly what I would not buy. I would be interested in either a realistic western setting, or in a version that allows to represent one of the categories of western movies (spaghetti, gritty, classical,...), but not a supernatural western. Perhaps I'm too old for the mainstream tastes.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

No doubt. The question is, is the gain greater than other things you could be doing with your time? As I said, in most case the answer was "yes".

It's easy to disrupt and strike in the same round.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Different styles have different approaches of course; some don't do parrying much and concentrate on dodges. However almost all fencing styles that are based around controlling the width of facing presented to an oppoenent are based around parrying, including ones much more serious than epee such as saber. I'm not sure how well parrying works with a mace for example, but I've certainly seen it done as the primary defense method in tactics using single asian broadsword.

The issue isn't whether it was common or not; the issue is whether its doable. I think I have to conclude it is.

Of course it is feasible. I just told that parrying with your attack weapon means removing it from it's direction, and is slower than dodging or parrying with another weapon, wether dagger, main gauche, shield, lantern or cape.

If most duels in the 3 musketeers period were done with 2 weapons is not a random fact.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Yeah, but major wounds actually reduce the lethality, as they cause characters to drop. Players otherwise would fight on until they ran out of hit points.

This is exactly my point. With the MWT, this is random. With the hit locations, player choose to remain or not (if they are not disabled). If they die, this is their choice to have taken the risk (barring the disabling or killing blows).

I never complained about BRP being lethal, I like that. But I like to be able to choose my strategies. I can choose to be heroic and having a high chance to die, or backing out and play safer.

What I don't like is the random extra lethality, especially (as noted) when coupled with random armor.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

BRP really isn't that deadly. The ability to kill with one hit is fairly low, and in most cases restricted to impaling weapons that critical. BRP is more lethal than, say, D&D, but there are deadlier games.

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The ability to kill with one hit in real life is also fairly low. So, BRP lethality pleases me. But if the setting don't require it, I don't wan't EXTRA lethality.

And I agree, there are deadlier games. Some settings required it (cyberpunk for instance).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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For me the joy comes fromt the immersion and plausiblity of the setting. BRP is the operating system which provides the link between this setting and us. In short if we cut the lethality and random madness and horror from combat, its not fun for us anymore, because it lowers the setting realism and plausibility. The result is that we dont have that much respect and fear for combat anymore and maybe we do silly fights in situations where in reality it would be plausible to look for a different solution.

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Agreed.

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Enough? Maybe in comparision with other rule systems you are right. But in absolute factors, I would not say. I would rather say BRP is reasonable deadly to portray the reality to some extent while staying flexible and simple. I would not want play and dont enjoy anymore a rule system which is not as deadly as BRP.

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Also agreed.

QUOTE=Enpeze;4590]

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You are more into the classical literatic "hero" and cinematic thing than me I assume.

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One of the factors I am always wondering is, that many GMs dont care what the fact means that a PC or NPC has a very high skill. I think this means that this skill dominates his life and he has probably not much time to do anything else than practice and train this skill. Eg. consider a modern athlet who is able to jump 7m or more. He has to train his jump skill the whole day and would never be able to participate in longer adventures. So high skills may be ok for cinematic games but for realistic ones specialists with over 100% should have a time/motivation problem.

In that case (long jump), it is as much a limitation of innate capabilities than one of training and dedication.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster