Kloster

Adapt and survive or duck and roll?

Duck and Cover.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Rules: RQ III

Supplements: Genertela, Gods of Glorantha.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

As I have put in the other thread, I'm in the majority group here (41), but I can not vote for my wife (CoC and RQ player), which is 27.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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I understand that the Mekton ruleset is geared toward creating a more authentically anime-esque mecha experience, more balanced between the character and giant robot sides of the equation. I've never managed to get a copy-- most of the people I game with aren't into the giant robot thing.

Mekton is quite good at recreating the atmosphere of Mecha Anime. It is using Talsorian games in house system (Interlock). I have it (in french, by Oriflam), but never enjoyed it.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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EDIT: Ah, there may be hope yet. There are some people actually in their TEENS that still play BRP. Woo!

In the RQ goup I'm currently playig with, the youngest is 11 and the oldest (me) is 41. Everything else is in between (average around 30). And we have a CoC group with an average age of 25.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Am I the only one to miss the Defense ability from RQ2?

Nope, I find it useful also. But It should be in addition to a dodge skill.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I can't vote 2 times, but to lower the average age, my wife (RQ and CoC player) is 27. She discovered BRP 7 years ago. I plan to introduce my son (currently 3 1/2) in a few years.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I would like to participate, but with 1 young son, and a pregnant wife, time is for me quite limited.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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Anyway - long meditative post over. I'd just like to join the voices thanking Jason for a sterling job, and wishing him all the very best with the tough family problems he's going through right now. Hang in there.

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On this one, I think we all agree.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

When BRP comes out, I will buy it.

When many of the supplements come out, I will buy them.

As with RQM and other versions of RQ, I will generally review BRP with a favourable eye, hoping to get other people to buy the product.

I will support BRP on my website, as I do with RQ at the moment.

I can't see how I can be more positive about BRP.

If saying that I'd have liked BRP to be more RQ-like is negative then I apologise about being negative.

If saying that I would like BRP to be less like Call of Cthulhu, a game I am on record as not liking, is negative then I apologise for being negative.

But I will not apologise for expressing my own views on a public forum.

I have criticised RQ in the past, am not a huge fan of RQM and will no doubt criticise BRP in the future if the supplements are not up to scratch. If I buy the products, surely I have the right to express my opinions about those products.

Granted, I have not bought BRP Zero both for financial reasons and because I am waiting for the complete version to come out, but I have seen the playtest version and have commented on that.

When BRP eventually comes out, expect to see glowing reviews.

Exactly the same for me.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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Except they clearly weren't the default case, and as such, if a GM had no problem with it but a player did, he was simply stuck. In addition, the alternate methods had their own issues.

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They are. The rules specifically say 'Choose or roll'. It is GM's work to refuse something he find unbalancing, uninteresting or problematic.

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Kloster

Silly question. If you were the GM, why would you have to do the required calculations on-the-fly? Wouldn't you do this in pre-game prep? And if you are the player, wouldn't these calculations be done during character gen?

I can understand it being an issue if you are just doing a pick-up game, but for a planned game/campaign it shouldn't be an issue.

SDLeary

I'm not speaking of player-characters. Chargen is what it is.

When, speaking of the GM, I'm saying 'not easy on the fly', I mean that there is a mandatory extra phase during preparation, for converting all NPCs, like I have today when using some SB or Hawkmoon supplements for RQ. In this case, there is an issue, and the issue is extra time and extra work for the GM.

If using the top-down approach, instead of bottom-up, this extra phase is only 'ignore what you don't need', which don't take time.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

And if anyone does, could you please not forget to shoe-horn the Pendragon 4e magic system in there? Thanks much!

SDLeary

I don't know this one, but why not. In fact, I think that for completeness sake, all systems present in previous BRP games should be included, if only to be able to convert those old games to the new BRP.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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BRP is entirely compatible with RQIII - pick the right set of optional rules and, bar a few skill category names and the contributing stats, it's mechanically indistinguishable. Add the BRP Magic Book monograph and it has the same magic systems as well.

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Yes, but will the aforementioned BRP monograph still be available when final BRP will be out? If not, possibility does not exist.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'll admit to considerable frustration with the "I don't have it, but here's why it fails" opinions, so maybe you'll understand why I get peevish with the fact that the most vocal critics are those who don't seem to actually have copies of Edition Zero, or were hoping for RuneQuest 3.5 instead of the book that was solicited.

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Hello Jason,

As I have already explained, I'm not buying BRP edition 0 because, counting shipping and handling, it is far too expensive, and I am saving my money to buy it in a store when final version will be released, not because I don't like what you've done. As I can NOT have this edition 0, I am basing my judgment on the explanations YOU gave.

I would have preferred having RQ 3.5, but I knew from the beginning I would not have it, and this is not my point. I would have preferred having BRP more based on RQ and less on SB because I think RQ is a better game than SB, but I know since month that I would not get that, and this is not my point. What I told is that I would have preferred a top-down approach, with a maximum of rules by default, and optional simplifications, because I find simpler to remove what I don't use than having to add what I want and is not default.

To cite the exemples you gave:

• Hit Points Per Location in addition to general HP... not much conflict there
  
• Fatigue Points and Sanity... easy enough to add... this seems easy!
  
• Armor per Hit Location is easy enough to add, but what if the GM wants random armor?
  
• Heroic Hit Points doubles HP, and causes a double value if you want to have normal HP also represented
  
• Splitting Attack and Parry Skills... hmm... now each melee weapon skill has two values - what if I only want to use one? Do I average them, or just use attack?
  
• Skill Category Modifiers - should they be presented and not added, or should they be included and GMs not wishing to use them must subtract the values from existing skills?
  
• Simpler Skill Bonuses - hmm... these don't really mesh with the above easily, do they?
  
• Increased Personal Skill Points, Cultural Modifiers, EDU/Knowledge rolls, etc. - do I add these for GMs who want to use them, and make GMs who don't want to use them remove them, or do I put them in a block alongside each NPC writeup?
  
• Skill Ratings Over 100% - hoo-boy! Do I want to play Elric! style, with NPCs with attack skills of 300% or more, do I want to keep things simple and say that 100% is the top? Does each skill have two ratings, based on where you want to put the limit? Over 100% and under 100%?
  

If the supplements, which are, like I said, my main points are using only core rules, I have to:

- calculate all the location HP (not easy on the fly).

- calculate the SR (not easy on the fly)

- put armor on each location (easy, if we assume no variation).

- calculate FP and SAN base and remaining (not so easy).

- generate a separate value for all melee weapons (easy).

for each npc.

- check which variable armor I should use (easy, not fast)

With the top-down approach, you have all of this printed, and those who don't use the options:

- ignore the locations HP, as the total HP is also given (doubling is easy for heroic).

- Ignore the SR, and just use the DEX rank.

- ignore the armor value for each location, using only one (probably torso or abdomen, if a specific value is not given).

- Ignore FP and SAN if not using them.

- Use only attack value for melee weapons (parry for shields) and ignore the second value.

- Same problem for variable armor, but value can also be printed.

This is what I have explained..

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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Thee Atichisson, the good ol'd room broom. Not that anyone really wants to fire the thing on full auto anyway. It is really a 3-5 round burst weapon. Of course that means something like fifty "00 buck" pellets!:eek: You could empty the magazine, but frankly if a 4 round burst doesn't drop what you are shooting at, the whole magazine won't either. The metallic cartridges probably are less likely to jam too. Not really a problem.

The thing would be a beast in BRP. Imagine a bust of 20 rounds at 4D6 each? Even those COC beasties that take minimum damage from firearms might be in trouble.

The metallic cartridge are because of the heat generated: Plastic casing melt in the chamber. The choice is the same with the HK CAWS and the AIW CAWS. They all fires longer than usual cartridge to avoid loading them in a 'standard' shotgun. The AIW fires flechettes ammo for increased range. The only full auto shotgun that fires standard ammo is the Pancor Jackhammer (because of it's ceramic cassettes).

In addition, all this weapons have a 10 shots mag, and as far as I know, are only capable of short (3shots) bursts.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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ps - Kloster, you mentioned earlier in this thread that you thought variable armour was standard - it's not. Which is nice.

My mistake. I stand corrected. :innocent:

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'm not faulting BRP for being what it is, just for not being what I want.

Seriously, it is not Jason or Chaosiums fault that Greg Secured the RQ trademark faster than they did when it expired (well ok, maybe that is Chaosium's fault), and then licensed it to MGP.

Seriously (no seriously this time). BRP looks like it will be exactly what it set out to be, and that is exactly what a lot of people are looking for (a generic Elric! implementation, Superpowers, Sci-Fi). I'm getting it for sure, and will use it (to what extent I don't know yet).

But it is not what the RQ Grognards really want, and it is not a slight to Jason or Chaosium to say so, it is a fact. And it was our last hope (Help us Obi-Wan Durall, you are our last hope), when MRQ, SA Glorantha, and DBRP were all in the works how could we help but envision a gaming utopia on the horizon? It has not materialised the way we envisioned - what we have is a bunch of seperate pieces that we have to work hard to fit together. Nope, Pendragon and the GPC it has not been.

Agreed here.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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I had a pickup truck and they promised me something better. What I got was a motorcycle with optional bulldozer attachment, sidecar and cargo trailer. I still want a pickup truck with a new paint job and better lights, handling, suspension, satnav, TV and en-suite shower and toilet.

...

That's true, you've played Car Wars!!!

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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The only place they don't compare is the Powers chapter - that's the only bit you'd have to modify to do a RQ game with the BRP rules. IE, BRP Zero + RQ3 Magic book = an updated version of the old RQ rules. Certainly a base rules set which could handle a "Magic and Heroquesting" supplement somewhere down the line.

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This is what I plan to do once final version is released.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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One last point regarding the "BRP-is-not-RQ" debate - Atgxtg, Kloster, have you seen the BRP Zero rules, yet?

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I've stated I will not buy edition 0 for economical reasons (too high sending cost). I'm saving my money for the day the final version will be released. But all the points I have cited have been explicitly cited by Jason.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

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I agree it would be a pain to have to try and derive hit location stats from a beastie that's only provided with Major Wound data.

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This is a perfect exemple.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I think it probably depends on the genre, but in generally I agree it's also probably the only way to go. I'm putting some stuff together for a fantasy setting at the mo which may one day see the light of day, and am deliberately factoring in a whole heap of optional BRP rules (Strike Ranks, Fatigue, Hit Locations, etc) into the critter stats at both scenario and sourcebook level, whether or not I personally would use them. That way you'll have some redundancy - a critter would have both Major Wound and Hit Location stats, for example, and you pick and choose based on the game you want.

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This is what I would like to have, but I'm afraid to miss. If the supplements are presented that way, most of the griefs I do have are gone.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I am not a fan of RQ3. I'm a former Elric! player. I think Elric! was the pinnacle of RPG perfection. I am also a big fan of CoC. So when I read that the primary source for the new BRP is Elric, followed by CoC, it made me happy.

I understand why Runequest 3 fans would be frustrated, but you can't please everyone.

Jason "I am designing a new motorcycle"

RQ3 fans "But I want a pickup truck."

Jason "OK, but other people want a new motorcycle, so that's what I am making."

Later...

Jason : "How do you like my new motorcycle?"

RQ3 fans: "What? It doesn't have a cargo bed? How am I going to use this as a pickup truck?"

Jason: "How do you like it as a motorcycle?"

RQ3 fans: "Could you add 3 seats, a payload capacity of 2 tons, four wheel drive..."

Well I want a motorcycle. The pickup druck division is over at Mongoose publishing. If you don't like their new pickup truck product, don't blame the motorcycle division.

I'm not blaming the motorcycle division. I've even said I find Jason did a nice job. I knew BRP was not envisionned to become RQ from the beginning. What I say is:

1 - I would have prefered RQ (which is, for me, the pinnacle of BRP), but this is a personnal taste, and I'm not complaining on that, because I'm not frustrated. I just have what has been promised.

2 - The fact that Jason choose SB5 and CoC as main sources bring a simpler, less detailed game as default, with lots of optional rules to add complexity. As I have already explained, this will bring more work to use the supplements if they focus (which they should) on the core rules. I find simpler to remove what I don't use than add everything I want and is not present.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Having worked very closely with Greg on the 'Dara Happa Stirs' book for Mongoose, I don't get the impression that he doesn't care about what gets developed. He might not care too much for the system, but as far as the Second Age is concerned, he's put a great deal of effort into providing Mongoose's writers with the precise tools to reflect his vision, and his own writing seems to have developed the second age.

Greg's been extremely supportive about the Dragonewts book, Dara Happa, and is very keen to see what further Second Age projects are developed. So to say that his interest is purely or mainly financial is a little on the disingenuous side - both to him, and to Mongoose, which is very keen to ensure that all its Gloranthan output gets an official seal of approval.

Note that my comment about the 'mainly financial' deal is not derogatory. I'm working because my job pays my rent and my food, not by pleasure. I perfectly understand this motivation, even if I don't like the result.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster