Kloster

Bollocks.

You are confusing your own lack of breadth of experience with a general lack in the gaming industry.

In the first decade of roleplaying games there were published and sold for profit (ie, not homebrews with photocopier) at least 141 first edition English language rpgs (I include 1971's Chainmail, combatish precursor to D&D for completeness). A look down the following list will reveal that extraordinarily few of them in any way focused on killing things and taking their stuff. In addition, considerably fewer than "90%" of them were variations of D&D.

(1971) Chainmail -

...

(1983) Espionage - 1st ed by George MacDonald, Steve Peterson (1983) Hero Games

Ok, but combined sales of (A)D&D were probably higher than all the other ones combined. And the number of (A)D&D players was greater than the number of non (A)D&D players. So, even if a lot of products were not D&D clones, their presence was quite limited (who remembers having played Bifrost or Superhero 2044, even in this forum were, being 40, I am counted within the young ).

And 'Drakar Och Demoner' is not really english .

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Do you mean people actually PLAYED Toon??? :eek:

How? I mean, you might as well run around your yard hitting one another with rubber balloons!

Erm... hang on... that was Killer, wasn't it? :shocked:

Just too many drugs, man, too many drugs. "I'm a six foot rabbit with a machine gun and a jello grenade." Course you are.

:eek: *I got the fear!!!* (steals pizza and runs off and hides)

Of course, we played toon (killer also, but this is another story).

In fact, I've never played, only GMed. But I've lost the map to the cave where those fantastic mushrooms ...

No, really, I don't have any player anymore (apart my wife). The other are too serious to enjoy it, or too young to accept the sheer madness that MUST occur.

By the way, my original players were playing:

- a toaster (chromed one), that lassoed everybody with it's power cord.

- a wrestling baby (remember baby herman).

- an hippopotamus gogo dancer.

- a rat (called rat'mbo), that was moving with 2 machineguns stucked under his armpits.

The spy adventures were the most hilarous ones.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Pretty much as RQIII IIRC, at least in the play test draft - you can commence moving on your DEX SR at typically 3m / SR etc.

Cheers,

Nick Middleton

Thanks Nick.

Does that means you're slower with SR than without?

It seems strange.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Although I encountered a few other games, the ones I actually played regularly were:

Melee/Wizard

Classic Traveller

Champions/Justice, Inc.

Toon

Monster Island

...

How could I have forgotten toon?? Shame on me. :innocent:

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I think that's expressed a little harshly, but I can't disagree that if this is difficult math--well, I'm just boggled to know what to say. How do these people balance their checkbooks?

Considering the current state of worldwide banking systems, they don't.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'm sorry, Triff, but I'm just not seeing it; you figured your modifiers for your different categories, added them to any bases and bonuses from previous experience, and that was your total. That's putting down a couple dozen skills at most, doing some small addition and division to figure most modifiers, and then adding up, at most, three two digit numbers. I'm just hard pressed to find that excessively complex (and barring your participation, a player having to take a half hour to generate a character doesn't strike me as particularly excessive).

Same experience for me. And whatever the system, I usually spend more than 30 mn for creating a character.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

What occurs with the optional strike ranks?

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'm just about to head out, so I'll reply quickly if that's okay!

In a sense, combat kind of already uses a similar mechanism. But no, not overtly, nowhere does it says "Combat uses the Opposed Roll rule", so you can rest easy

In my view the "define what happens on a tied roll" is where you come a cropper, especially when skills get above 90%, where running races, swimming contests, fast talk, hide and seek, stealth, etc, etc, are all gonna bog down into tied rolls *most* of the time unless you have some resolution mechanic for when both sides succeed. As I said, personally I'm not gonna use the "higher roll wins" rule, I'll be using my amazing mathematical skills to subtract the roll from the skill and derive a margin of success - and the better success margin wins. This is mainly to ensure I have a consistent mechanic which will work as well for 150% skill as it does for 50%.

Anyway - must dash! :thumb:

Sarah

Same for me.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I will do Fantasy to have a pseudo RQ 4.

For superhero, I'm using champions.

I rarely play modern (except JB007, and sometimes CoC).

I very rarely play Sci-Fi (Last time was megatraveller).

If available, I will have a try for western.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

As I'm not a native english speaker, I don't know if the word gun fondler is offensive, an can not reply on such.

For the rest, it does not seems to me anybody has been offensive or insulting. My personal comment (the :thumb:) only meant I find Tweaker's comments quite correct, especially the one on the way this kind of thread often finish.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I fully agree with you, Nick. I don't think so much detail for guns is really necessary for most groups or most settings, unless you happen to play with a bunch of gun-fondlers, of course. But even then, this level of detail should really be reserved for supplements or specific books on the subject.

That, I think, was one of the aims of the new BRP - a generic book which would allow any gaming group to start playing in short order. No core rulebook really needs that kind of detail, IMHO, and you must draw the line somewhere in order to have it actually published.

Also, I must confess my eyes glaze each time I find yet another discussion about guns, ammunition, damage effects and wounds. They bore me to tears and - after 15+ years in this hobby - I've found all of them can be summed up thus:

1) A fan of the game with a deep knowledge of guns and weapons objects to the weapon tables in the book and declare them to be either wimpy or painful inadequate misrepresentations of the real thing. The book author's should be ashamed and severely reprimanded for making such gross mistakes.

2) Then, one or more fans - with similar deep knowledge of the subject matter, apparently - join in and reply to those statements, either supporting them or correcting the first fan in some way or other. A long series of posts - brimming with technical data and relevant anatomical and medical issues and statistics - ensues.

3) Some of them eventually concoct an alternate damage system or set of weapon stats which should work the way they like for their games. They are happy and think their system is great and should be the one used by the game's publisher, even though they are the only gamers which will probably find some use for it.

4) Meanwhile, other fans of the game, without the same interest in guns and their effects - or not so knowledgeable in this respect - yawn and continue discussing their campaign ideas and actually playing, possibly even finding the system highly enjoyable in all other respects despite the wimpy weapon stats...

:thumb:

The smiley says all.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Hello,

As I haven't played any recently published game, I can't have a clear idea about recent changes. For the 1975 to 2000, there has been a lot of gaming style changes:

- originally, heroic fantasy was almost the only roleplaying type available (not counting traveller and metamorphosis alpha). Since begining of the 80's, we have gobble of choice.

- originally, adventures were VERY linear (especially TSR ones, but T&T was not by much different in this approach) and we gradually had more choice in the adventures. I don't know if this is still the case.

- we always had a bunch of influences (SF, heroic fantasy, spy, supers,...) and styles (old style litterature, anime, movies, comics,...), so for me no change here.

- some games have been very lethal, some have not, depending on style (not counting heroes unlimited, superpowered games are not lethal, whatever the period. Most of the western games I have played are), the targeted audience and the author's tastes. For me, no changes here (but I don't play recent games). RQ or Bushido are deadly games and are dated 1978 (IIRC). Cyberpunk is deadly and is dated 1988.

- refusal to let pc die is for me a matter of preference of the GM (and, to a lesser extent, of the players) and has always been a debate.

- rules are on the average becoming lighter, less extensive (GURPS and Hero notwithstanding). I agree with Shaira this is driving responsibilities from the rules to the GM.

That's all for now.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

You know, this is the first game board that I have been to that has made me feel young. Usually I am one of the oldest gamers around (37), here it is like I'm a spring chicken.

Same for me (I'm 40).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

I got the 'deluxe' boxed set of Hero Wars a few years ago (that same book, plus three others: Glorantha - Introduction to the Hero Wars (background), Narrators's Book - Game Mastering in the Hero Wars, and one of related short stories (quite good). Interesting, but I still haven't figured out how to play it. And it's put me off HeroQuest (the 2nd ed.) big time, too. But not HeroQuesting...

Exactly the same for me.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

My favourite books would include: ..., Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance,,...

...

Waow. For that kind of subject, I would prefer Alan Watts.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

hehe...I'm in the same boat. My two-year-old must have received my love of books...she tries to get her hot little hands on any of my books. Luckily, I still have about 2.5-3 ft. height on her now

Lucky guy. My son is now 3 1/2, and since he reached 1 1/2, we have to move everything sensitive up every 3 or 4 month. We now have reached the ceiling with what we consider he should not reach, and can not up more. So now, we choose what to protect.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

'If bound correctly' being the problematic variable.

I am used to french edition of Chaosium books (Both Oriflam and Jeux Descartes), whose hardbacks were, to say the least, very sturdy. All of them are still here, after years of usage.

But I agree some are not so resilient (Games Workshop forex).

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Indeed. And the problem with variables is that they vary.

Personally, I'm getting fond of pdfs with clear plastic covers and a plastic spiral binding. It is durable, water resistant when closed, and can be laid down flat.

I presume you have a laptop. My desktop is an old server (around 30 kg), and I don't carry it around.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

So we might as well dump zombies and werewolves and evil medicine men into it... to liven it up a bit!

Heretic. :shocked:

Prepare hot tar and feathers. >:->

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

...

The shortsword was popular with two weapon users, and the bastard sword was probably my personal favorite, although it didn't catch on with most other players.

...

Same for us.

...

The scimitar and rapier did get used in my groups. The kurkri never did, as it was a bit to culture specific.

...

Same for scimitar and rapier (in RQIII). The kukri is considered the same as a kopi or a falchatta, and as such, saw usage.

...

Realsitically if the saber and such got a bonus from horseback, like they should, they'd have gotten more use with mounted characters.

...

Agreed.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'd consider the Mauser C96 to be the first submachinegun. The difference between machine pistol and SMG are rather vague.

There were also a few other designs like the MP18 that could make claims to the VIlliar Persoa's title.

The technology was really available since at least the mid 19th century if not earlier. It just took so logng for people to consider the idea as worthwhile.

The Mauser C96 is not full auto. Each pull on the trigger will fire only 1 shot.

Submachinegun are able of full auto. The full auto model of the C96 is the C32 (of 1932).

The Villar Perosa is dated 1914 and has been introduced to service in 1915. There were new models in 1915, 1916 and 1917. The MP18 is dated, guess what, 1918.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Why do people prefer hardback for gaming books so often?

...

Probably because, if bound correctly, the books are far more resilient when transported in a bag. When I was younger, I moved only with a motorbike and had to transport everything in bags. Hardcover had a better life duration.

Now, I still prefer them for resilience in the gaming room, even if transport is not a problem anymore.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Admittedly, I'm not all that up to date on when automatic weapons came into use.

I have to admit that as I watched the movies again I was thinking of doing an adaption myself.

I cared very little for the remake.

Rod

IIRC, the 1st submachinegun was the italian Villar-Perosa, during WWI.

The 1st machinegun was the Maxim, and machineguns were present in all modern armies at the turn of the 20th century.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

Get over it. Im sure his attitude toward the game now is just him jumping on the fanwagon of "Grrrr evil TSR!" "Grrrr evil WotC!" "Grrrr evil MRQ!"

Hearing everyone complain about MRQ makes me just want to go out and buy it. Other then its just too damn expensive!

It's not attitude, just plain economy: way too expensive for the quality of what we get.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster

I'd like:

Western (either realist, classical or spaghetti, but no fantastic).

Ancient Greece.

Cyberpunk style.

Space Opera.

I would love but know I will never have so I will have to do it myself:

a new Runequest with the new BRP as basis.

Runequestement votre,

Kloster