Squaredeal Sten

Forgotten by players? Surprisingly many are aware of it. Not forgotten by GMs such as me. But I admit I'd like to see some more detailed examples of the spell calculations. I don't want either to screw up or get in an argument. Definitely there in the rulebook and not hidden either. Spirit magic is a chapter. Rune magic is a chapter, I admit it gets double exposure with the Cults chapter. Shamans and Spirits are chapters, then Sorcery is a chapter. They are all listed in the table of contents. But I would like to see a set of practical exercises on making and using sorcery spells. I'd pay for it too. ? Or how about an on line tutorial? Incidentally despite the Shaman chapter I see players struggle with new assistant shamans. Perhaps that occupation could use a set of practical exercises too.

Agreed. I would presume that in form at least the Vendref do not give grain in tribute to the grazer clans. They give grain to the Feathered Horse Queen or her designated representatives The FHQ then gives it to the Grazer clans whose Earth priestesses just might be those designated representatives. As the Grazers will rely on grain to feed their horses as much as on grass, that gives the FHQ huge patronage power.

Bear in mind that the existing literature has the PHP clans moving among different grazing areas on seasonal basis. Queen's post area one season and far NW another, that is a paraphrase of what is written.. So it's not as if they stay in one place year around, and on that basis mapping them should be a different kind of exercise. So I am not inclined to say the 41 clan map matches that background. The Vendref will stay in place of course, farmers = sedentary. You can make their clan map in the old way. But note that all they seem to own is their fields, all the wild land is the PHP's to hunt. The Grazers may tolerate keeping out if the Vendref fields, but Drafting a monolog here: "Let some ground man tell me where to hunt? He'll be lucky if all I do is put him in his place." So the Vendref territories won't abut each other most of the time. They will be like islands in the sea of grazer territory = all unplowed ground.

The striking thing about Prax, as far as I am concerned, is that it is hard to live in because it is magically infertile, not because it is too dry. If you look at the weather table, there is enough rain for dry farming, 35 inches a year being the rule of thumb. It is very seasonal, and that's not good. But the water is there. (Not necessarily true of the Wastes east of the Zola Fel.) If only Genert were resurrected you could call it a garden again. So let's gather those hyena hides and build up our magic. If the Lunars can resurrect a god, why not the Praxians?

That is the problem as far as the Praxians are concerned: there are not a lot of wild vegetabke foods that humans can eat. Therefore the need for Waha's compact. But we are told that Prax is based on the American Southwest. So IMG: Edible plants will include Mesquite beans. Mesquite is usually seen as "bushes" but can grow into fairly large trees. For instance the one behind my daughter and son in law's house: that is as tall as that 2-story house. There is a lot of mesquite, it is usually regarded as a weed. Some cactus is edible, for instance prickly pear pads/ leaves are de-thorned, then cut into straips and eaten like green beans. (Nopales). In this case it's the vitamins and fiber that are the nutrient benefits. Because the calorie content is very low. You could probably starve to death eating all the nopales you could eat. Prickly pear fruit is edible, but it's full of seeds. When you see " cactus csndy" sold in tbe RW, be aware that the pulp is strained to eliminate the seeds, then mixed with sugar. Onions grow wild in the wetter parts of the Southwest. Yucca plants' thick roots are edible when roasted. These resemble long thin sweet potatoes in size, but they are not sweet and are blackish. To my knowledge that is about it for edible wild plants. Domesticated plants are another story.

Thanks. I will mine that too for atmosphere for Friday's game. I don't know how to reconcile Dunham's 40 clans with the "six"figure I recall from the Guide. Except by assuming most are Vendref. It does seem to me that each Grazer clan should have an annual sequence of grazing areas. That is implied in the other material. With the density of the Grazers they must have some agreed on areas, because random movement just won't work, it would trigger conflict as they are channeled by the mountains. They would fall into intra tribal warfare, and there is no evidence of such conflict. Too bad the grazer pack was never done. RQG would benefit from a unifying vision of the Grazers, who are just as much neighbors to Sartar as Prax is.

Aside from the new issue of whether Befuddle works on beings with no INT stat, Let's assume for the sake of argument that this CA doesn"t know Befuddle or Sleep or any other specific spell, or that the POW vs. POW fails. My point is and was the morality, not the magic and the die rolls.

Thanks! I couldn't have gotten it otherwise. A lot of the links on that site are dead now. (EDIT) I had read a few other "What the __ says" pieces, didn't even know this one existed. But I did find the Grazer one in one of the Heroquest Voices downloads from the Well of Daliath. it's great! Given how little window there is into Grazer life - though some of it is probably contrary to implied canon now. For instance the Vendref gods' list is suspect, I don't know what to make of "Kenkacho the Loyal Slave " but suspect he won't be in the forthcoming Cults of Runequest books. The platform burial part in "What the Grazer shaman says" looks interesting, implies a larger Native American component of the Grazers than I had previously thought. It is interesting that the age groups of each sex may also be spirit cults.

When is " soon"?

Those who want to settle scores remember past events in which they believe the candidate did not display Justice, Honor, or Generosity. If there are a majority of such people that casts doubt on the candidate's Wisdom in running for clan chief. So it is all relevant. Bias? Yes there is bias on politics. As soon as you grant that this is not just going to be a comparison of stats on character sheets, you should recognize that it's politics. That is why I mentioned the question of who judges whatever the chief contest may be.

I believe the dominant interpretation is that befuddle only works on beings with INTElligence.

So sure enough, my Adventurers bounced off the Smoking ruin and decided to go to Queen's post. I think they will be disappointed in looking for a Lhankor Mhy temple there. A shrine is more like it for a ton of about 1,000. I suppose the community of traders will have some scribes, and maybe some upwardly mobile lay followers will join in to support a shrine. Will the Vendref have a significant number of LM? Not in the outlying farming steads. Do the Venderef operate as clans? I would think so, after all they are culturally Orlanthi. (Ancestors more from Tarsh than from Sartar, though.) Do we know the names of any of those clans? With 18,000 Vendref in the Grazelands does that mean 6,000 in each of the areas in and around the three towns?. IMHO fewer, and more Vendef in the farther-flung valleys growing grain for the farther-flung Pure Horse People. With the references i have so far, there are six PHP clans [from the Guide, I believe] - which gives them around 3,000 members each - and I know the names of - the Four Gifts clan in the northwest of Grazer territory but winter at Queen's post. The gifts are explained p.71 of Smoking Ruin. - the Green Crown Clan "who rule from Rich Post and range out over the Vostebain and Yinkin Hills." [from Velhara's Mirror] Penralton, is chief. - Possibly Laughing Dog clan north Seven Fouls Valley, per Smoking Ruin page 69, though its ethnicity is not identified.

It would be intriguing to have some model Lunar heroquests. A book of those would probably sell well. Just saying. It would probably be easier to write when the Lunar book of Cults of Runequest comes out. But if you already have some ideas in mind and have already looked into the Lunars, why wait?

Our Gloranthas do vary, probably because the presentations of Sacred Time have been ambiguous in that regard. There is more than one essay on heroquesting in Arcane Lore. I happen to like the second one, page 9. As I understand it the usual Sacred Time worship ceremonies are " in - world heroquests." That is essentially passion plays with a magical overlay. The participants and initiates probably do not travel to their gods' homes. But gods and spirits will manifest inside the sacred precinct.. g33k presents a great description of this, above, and I will steal if from him in future. "Now read page 11. *How Heroquesting works": "Crossing over" takes participants to the second level of heroquesting, which is less usual, and takes participants to the hero plane. Which is still not to the gods' plane though they are in a mythic story, really in it, not just portraying it. As I understand it the audience does not cross over with the questers. The third level, page 12, is Other World Heroquesting. This is where they cross over into the Gods World. It says that pretty plainly. At Sacred Time everyone is closer to the gods' world / time. It is easier to cross over to the other side, but still not automatic. Your in world heroquest may be bumped to the second level because the universe between your GM's ears wants to. As I said. There is more than one essay. We both await the promised heroquesting rules.

That looks like an excellent model set of events that a GM can present to a shaman for growth opportunity adventures. Thanks.

So according to miasma theory a stream of disease spirits is generated spontaneously? Now as a parent and grandfather I have observed that small children have minor diseases more often than adults. Obviously the miasma from diapers does it. That is a wonderful explanation, worthy of Aristotle or Hippocrates. It's obviously very advanced stuff for Glorantha.

I am just idly thinking about minor Gloranthan diseases: According to RQiG page 155, The Sniffles only occurs in the mild form and causes no characteristic loss. Therefore it won't kill anyone. Disease spirits multiply by killing infected people,. So how do we get epidemics of The Sniffles?

Hmm. I thought that was her crown test for being king of tbe Colymar. Not clan chief. Sort of an in world heroquest. Leika's test looked more like a Waha or Storm Bull " go kill Chaos", a prerequisite for clan chief in Prax. Nothing wrong with that but at first glance it is a test of only one Orlanthi virtue, Courage.

According to the Glorantha Sourcebook p. 112, Orlanth's virtues are Couage, Wisdom, Generosity, Justice, Honor, and Piety. I am not sure how you test some of these with an unambiguous result. Some like Honor don't seem susceptible to a test situation. For example Honor is what you do when no one is saying "it's a test." I see a similar problem for Generosity: It's what you do when people are not saying " give this and you will get to be clan chief." These things are lived and for years The candidate's fellow clanspeople will have been observing how well they are lived.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that this CA doesn"t know Sleep, or that the POW vs. POW fails. My point is the morality, not the magic and the die rolls.

You lost me on both of those points. I am sure of the difference between fiction and reality, whether it is in print or in video. Gloranthans are sure it is reality. I don't see any of the media - Print, film. video. Voice, or pantomime - as having a built in version of morality. Print can carry any moral message you want, from Hitler"s to Gandhi's. Yes I have heard " the medium is the message" but at best that is hyperbole. At worst, it is confusing framing.

I would say that Gloranthans practise religion as people in the ancient world would have if their beliefs were true and demonstrable, like an Orlanth rune lord able to demonstrate lightning. Or an initiate's experience of seeing the other worlds ( spirit world, gods' world, hero plane ....) Not just jawbone from a priest.

I am also unsure of what is in a chief test. Jeff"s post above is the first I heard of a chief test: I had thought it was just politics since the Ring members will have typically known each other all their lives. I take it from Jeff's " if" that the Ring is probably the nominating committee and a test is only needed if they are divided and propose two nominees. But if I am going to make up a test, [1] It is not going to include a duel. The purpose is not for Ring members to kill each other off. [2] it should be a plain test of the Orlanthi virtues, done seriatim. [3] I currently have no opinion about who judges.. One Ring member, as the Lawspeaker for justice? The whole ring? All the clan's adults?

I am in a game in which, for a little while, someone else played a Zorak Zoran cultist. It was pretty clear that this was the character's response to past events, to prejudice and persecution. Who will say that's not at least occasionally right and moral? There are Real World situations in which the most appropriate response IS to go berserk. We occasionally give Medals of Honor for that. It's not all bad all the time. What turns the ZZ into an a**hole is that he tries to apply that to all situations. it was also pretty clear in the game that Zorak Zoran bloody-mindedness is not the answer to all problems. As my own character, an Argan Argar initiate, said, "we can't kill our way out of this." But then Argan Argar is the Darkness god who does talk and worry about Equal Exchange and give aid including to folks who are not Uz. As another example of what i am trying to get at, your Chalana Arroy initiate is to be unfailingly pacifistic. ( Except to Chaos, and that's a big exception but the CA won't have the skills to physically fight Chaos either.) Ordinarily the CA is a much more comfortable neighbor than the ZZ. So what happens if the CA sees a small child about to be attacked by a large non-Chaotic predator? I am not a pacifist, and would kill the wolf. The CA would ideally keep hands off and concentrate on how moral it is to follow CA's example of non violence. I think I would be following the more moral course. By this example i am indicating that always being nice is not an infallible moral guide either. There are times when it is just as objectionable as the ZZ's berserk rage.

Not quite right. There are different divine moral examples. Orlanth screwed up the world and then tried to set it right. He is not a perfect moral example in all respects. Eff's discussion of Jungian psychology is most relevant IMHO. From the first day that I was exposed to RQ2 I have understood that the gods are archetypes and to Initiate in a cult is to commit oneself to being a better exemplar of that archetype. That doesn't change the proposition that these cults are transactional religions.