Squaredeal Sten

The reason I was thinking of that today is that I was consideting a possible Lankhor Mhy character who is a geographer. Possibly under the Lunar domination he even studied mapping in Peloria. Now post Dragonrise he may be one of the rare people Argrath would want to make maps for both military and civil use. Of course having studied in Peloria he is sometimes suspected of Lunar sympathies.

This brings up questions of Pelorian mapping and land navigation techniques: as far as I observe, the paradigm for the Lunars has shifted from Roman to Mesopotamian. If that is the case we should not assume Roman. But it leads to another train of thought: I was taught that the division of the circle into 360 degrees is Babylonian geometry. So at some point the Babylonians were using it, and I presume they measured degrees as well as just talking about them. I don't know whether any archaeologist has found an ancient protractor, but I believe they existed. Ancient theodolite? Probably not although the Antikithera device shows the ancients were capable of some very exact metalwork So back to Glorantha: Might the Lunars' Pelorian mapping techniques have included use of not only a plane table but also a protractor - and of course the magical compass needles which would point to a particular city or temple, or perhaps to Magasta"s Pool, the center of the world? If you combine those (and have needles for three or four widely separated cities) then with very careful observations you should be able to make a set of tolerably accurate maps at a small scale, and make a usable world map or at least Genertelan map, even by RW modern standards. This does not give you modern topographic maps. But then, an uncomfortable fact: most RW modern people have not been taught to read a topographic map, so that may not be relevant to our RQ games. And another uncomfortable fact: my marketing research work indicated that about 25% of the population I was dealing with are what I call non mapping; For example they may be familiar with where two transit routes go, but not realize that two destinations on different routes are only a few blocks apart. I have other corroborating stories. Navigationally, these folks are still back in pre industrial times, using itineraries / directions, in their day to day life. And that is what a GPS app on their phone gives them. So don't look down on ancient folks too much when we talk about their using itineraries.

It seems that most of us who spoke up so far have had most of our contact with heroquests in King of Dragon Pass. "Us" definitely includes me. I have used a KODP heroquest in my own Zoom campaign. And I have used one from Greg Stafford's material, with less appeal to the players, in a different campaign. Another very short one based on Chaosium's published material. I would like to GM more heroquests based on canon material / deep lore. I appreciate the published advice to let the players write their own, but do not have players inclined to do that so far. For me the Other Side can / should be pretty reachable from the mundane Glorantha. It is my understanding that there should be many traditional "in world" heroquests performed especially at Sacred Time. And that their closeness to Godtime can be escalated. Ideally there would be a library of these for GMs.

This has an obvious tie-in with that Gloranthan astronomy book you haven't written yet!😀 I know the tidal variation can be considerable, but I am no oceanographer and don't know what produces famous RW tidal locations like the Bay of Fundy. Have you looked into this, and the implications for Gloranthan coastal locations?

Sacred Time is coming up. We know that Lightbringer Quests can be dangerous and no one wants to go down like Kallyr. What is a different Orlanthi heroquest to strengthen the clan? Dig into that mythology, guys.

Nevertheless these events are to the advantage of Sartar. 1) Sartar is not the war zone, instead Tarsh is. For a change. 2) Sartar can trade freely from rebel Tarsh to the Holy Country, this is nearly as good as the old days before the Lunar invasions. 3) With the Lunar Civil War starting, Sartarites can trade even farther north. With some risk. 4) And unless I am wrong Argrath forms a league or alliance with the disparate parts of the Holy Country.

Sartar or Argrsth? Anyhow, thanks.

It strikes me that we have been told Chaosium deals with more than one printer. While it appears that the Cults of Glorantha series is all going to one printer, probably for consistency and price, it may be that other Runequest projects can go to other printers while the Cults series is still in initial production. If so we will all be happy. Here's to hope. And congratulations to Jeff and everyone who worked on the Cults books.

Sure, you already have my email too. Or can do it my message here. Either one.

The southern parts of Tarsh that are in rebellion are probably going to see less of anything coming south on the Oslir. This looks like an opportunity for the Salt trade to restructure.

Salt! Yes, that's what I was thinking a minute ago. I open the browser and you confirm it. Tarsh is landlocked a cargo of salt from Heortland is already high priced enough to be a good trade commodity.

And the participants in that civil war need to fund themselves. The war will help make trade adventurous.

"Goods" is not particularly informative. But herbs and spices is usable. Iron is hard to make a big cargo of. Exporting mined metals makes sense because we are told elsewhere that the Boldhome bronzeworkers guild owns copper mines in Tarsh. Slaves... I guess it depends on who you trade with. And everyone buys "artifacts", I suppose they are sold under economic stress.

What trade goods would Tarsh export? Import? I have seen Tarsh described as more prosperous than Sartar. If this status is based on more than its not being a war zone for decades before 1628 ST (and yes. Peace and prosperity often go together) Then I would think the kingdom might have particular exports which would support long distance trade. Also things they often trade for. The Guide to Glorantha"s long distance trade table dies not go down to this level of detail and in it Tarsh is part of Dragon Pass.

Oh, I have not gotten to 1630 ST yet. But I wanted to clarify that he had not died in 1628 / Battle of Heroes. This makes a difference to what my players and their adventurers negotiate with Fazzur's son Annistad at Dunstop. Which in my version was not taken by assault. Instead Dunstop switches sides, so Tarsh will be in a state of open civil war for a couple of years. Which makes sense to me as Argrath goes haring off with Harrek to fight Ethelrist. It seems to me that in the background as presented there is a lot of motivation to do that. Pharandros and Fazzur are known to be in conflict since 1625, Pharandros regarding Fazzur's sons as a threat. So loyalty to Pharandros has to be gone, because in RQ loyalties are reciprocal. The Red Emperor has fled and may be regarded as a paper tiger. The Glowline blinked out because the Tarsh Temple of tbe Reaching Moon is desecrated. Tarsh is now a war zone and the family forunes will be ruined if Dunstop is ruined. Annistad already initiated to Orlanth and I interpret that as his preparing to switch sides. It is in Argrath's interest to peel off Lunar adherents and have an active ally, and trade with Tarsh, rather than to conquer a desert. And Argrath may not want to conduct a siege in winter, and to keep his Sartarites mobilized so that they miss the planting season back home. So I have Annistad prove his Orlanthi bona fides by casting Cloud Clear, and Dunstop is not assaulted. My Glorantha has indeed varied. But I don't want it to vary so massively that if you publish a 1630 Hero Wars supplement I can't run it.

When there is a big setback like a standard taken or 50% casualties I start rolling against their Loyalty passion. And come to think of it, when there is a spectacular event like someone getting their head cut off, I have rolled then too.

In a related question, whar happens to Tarsh king Pharandros? According to Jeff he is in command of tbe advanced guard at the Battle of Heroes and Argrath's Prax horde eats his lunch. I don't find anything saying he is killed. I guess that he flees to the Red Emperor at the 3rd (unengsged) part of the Lunar army, which h includes Furthest regiments, and does not stop in Bagnot or Dunstop but continues at least to Furthest. OK, then I take it there's a final break with Fazxur's family. I consider that Annstad has every incentive to negotiate to make himself Argrath's Tarsh king, and a Tarsh civil war occurs within the larger events of Lunar civil war and Argrath's conquest.

After the Battle of Heroes (dark season 1628ST) what is the condition of Tarsh? Presumably Argrath's army walks into Bagnot. As Bagnot is a day's March away. I don't see a suggestion of a siege and it would make no sense for Argrath to retreat. What's the state of the Phargentes vs. Fazzur Wideread civil war? I never did understand Fazzur's geographic base. The canon relations in their triangle with Argrath? What's the economic state of Tarsh?

The printed scenario actually has a pretty detailed tactical plan fior the troll attack, which actually seems to me not to be optimal, thus cutting the Adventurers some slack. (The Adventurers have a big section of perimeter to defend and a better plan would be to use the trollkin slingers to feint at one end, then if the Adenturers react toward them to break through at the other end.) Anyway, the only things I would add are: 1) Keep your eye on the ball, which is to get the egg laying beetles onto the target tree. It's not a skirmish, not a slugfest, it's a breaktrough. Use the initiate trolls to hold the Adventurers while the Rune Lord gets his beetles to the target. 2) The dark trolls all have Blinding and should use it with extra boosting MPs to neutralize Adventurers before the trolls charge, while the slinging is going on. 3) Remember that trolls have Darksense, so I don't know why the scenario says they waste RP on Darksee. 4) When the trolls do charge they should cast Darkwalls to isolate the intended breakthrough area, reducing Adventurer response. All the dark trolls have Darkwall. Ideally that isolates 1 or 2 Adventurers and the others don't know where the breakthrough zone is for a few melee rounds. 5) The Gorakiki Rune Lord is already specified to have cast his cult Rune spells, which give him extra limbs and head bite = added attacks. All the GM needs to do is execute: Cast Mobility and Shimmer just before the charge, by the RL and his allied spirit. Remember to use MPs from his spirits.. Cast Bludgeon 4, then melee: Use thise extra insect limbs, they are free attacks! Each added attack reduces the target Adventurer's next parry by 20%. 6) Use the two bound spirits early to cast Iron hand on the unarmed extra arm (and figure his STR bonus as you prep the session). Extinguish on Adventurers' torches. To cast Demoralize before the charge and during melee. Heal, and to cast Mobility on friends and Slow on Adventurers. More Blinding attempts. The Allied Spirit to cast Dispel Magic to undo whatever the Adventurers cast, plus cast the Rune Lord's spells. The Rune lord has 71 magic points available to buff himself before and in melee and to undo the Adventurers. Use them lavishly. 6) Finally, GM realize that the first seasonal troll attack is expected to fail. Use the War Trees to ensure that happens. Page 173. How is that for a detailed plan?

If you DI them out, you can recycle the rune lords in a second encounter in another season. Same with rune priests though with lower POW likely. So their flight is not only rational but helps you GM. And the campaign gets a recurring opponent who should anticipate the Adveturers' methods next time.

When both sides have good armor and a lot of magical protection up, then yes I saw a lot of indecisive rounds while we waited for that critical roll. For a while the Humakti with god enhanced sword and Bladesharp had modified sword skill of 150+, so the opponent's parry is degraded 50% and the player rolled for a mere 95 or less. That tended to put a hole in the enemy line. Then the Humakti player left, a sad loss. Then my players got crafty; they started doing one huge attack Rune spell like Lightning 3 or 4 or Sleep, boosted by 4 to 10 MPs to smash through the Countermagic or Shield. This is easier to do when a couple of Adventurers have storage crystals and high POW. So now with a good POW vs. POW roll. the target has his abdomen cratered by lightning. It speeds up the fight. Also of course the Lightbringer adventurers developed Rune Lord scale weapon skills and magic themselves, so while not having Humakt gift their Swords, they are pretty dangerous. That was the evolution in my campaign.

I think tbe first five responses tell you most of what you asked for. But before Jeff closes the thread I'd like to try to summarize.: I am going to answer "Why?" Not to argue you out of what YOU want. You do you. 1. Runequest and D&D have developed different GMing styles. It's been a long time since I played D&D but back in the late 1970s its monster manual provided a pretty formulaic method for GMs: Start 1st level PCs in the next level of the same dungeon hunting goblins, 2nd level of the dungeon against orcs, add critters with more dice as the PCs gain levels and go deeper in tbe dungeon. I am sure D&D has evolved but those are its roots. RQ on the other hand grew out of the dungeon paradigm (it is still used but most adventures are in open air) and is not a level based game, so evolved in a different direction. Presenting a series of new monsters with more dice is not expected or successful. The opponent and adventure progression has to be more complex. 2. Those of us who have run RQ for a few years have not experienced running out of monsters. Judging from the responses of those who have run RQ for decades, they have elaborated foes within existing categories. For example there are rolled up spirits and demons per Bestiary - then in a specific supplement there is Krampus who falls into that general category: You can buy the Throat of Winter adventure with him in Jonstown Compendium. Which I recommend. But he is not meant to be a generic Krampus that any GM throws into his 27th level dungeon, you open the room door and he says " You're on the naughty list." No he is not Santa Claus, not even an evil Santa. He has motivations, subordinates, and methods peculiar to the adventure. 3. A follow on book of "monsters" is not a good business decision for Chaosium right now. They need to get the gods book out the door, then the GM book. The big Sartar campaign. The Holy Country book(s). The East Isles are recently in Jonstown Compendium. Jajagappa did just this year publish Imther in JC. Geographic areas and cultures are the way for RQ to grow, not monsters. The areas may come with area specific opponents, some of whom are monstrous. But if a unique opponent is found in Kralorela there is no reason it should pop up in Ralios. 4. Us GMs and players are not demanding a 2nd Bestiary. We mostly don't follow the D&D method that would make it desirable. Maybe in a few years Chaosium will compile one, maybe for the oceans or for Pamaltela, but we are clamoring for other books now. That's why. In my humble but wordy opinion.

And running or surrendering is completely realistic in tbe RW. Even in close order, which supports morale, hardly any one fights past 50% casualties and 25% is more usual.. In open order, a much lower threshold. Most of the casualties in classical times were taken after the formation broke, when cavalry slaughtered the fugitives. So in Anabasis you have Xenophon explaining that the Greeks mounted some men from their phalanx because otherwise "they could not kill any", the side that ran dropped their shields so they could run faster. Unfortunately we seldom have the encumbrance stats prepared so it's hard to say when the Adventurers can't keep up.

I usually find that when the fight goes badly for the NPCs, most of those still fighting go down before they can disengage. Then a party member with Slow magics the disengaged. But what I need to improve, is managing battles vs. Enemies in phalanx. I want to have the second rank ready to step up. So I need to prepare a slightly different matrix.

No, as far as I have ever seen it explained the rest of the sky does not move with the sun. The sun moves beneath the sky dome. There are illustrations in the Sourcebook and Guide, but I have not seen any single comprehensive source on Gloranthan astronomy. Joerg did recently post links to a couple of good partial references, see above. Also see Well of Daliath.