Grappled/Grabbed Maneuver Question

[Grimmshade]

Using the combat rules, if an opponent succeeded on a grab maneuver against you, you would need to use a maneuver of your own to get free. So why is it in most monster descriptions you don't use a maneuver but instead using opposed STR or DEX roll to get free?

Can you also use a maneuver?

[klecser]

Page 108 explicitly mentions escaping being restrained with a Fighting Maneuver.

In addition, consider that Fighting Maneuvers factor in Build. STR or DEX rolls to escape monster grappling is just a straight opposed roll. Given that Build differences grant penalty dice and make maneuvers impossible with a Build difference of 3+, you'll be thanking your lucky stars (for being Right) that you're being granted an opposed STR/DEX roll. The opposed STR/DEX roll gives Investigators a chance.

[Grimmshade]

5 hours ago, klecser said:

Page 108 explicitly mentions escaping being restrained with a Fighting Maneuver.

In addition, consider that Fighting Maneuvers factor in Build. STR or DEX rolls to escape monster grappling is just a straight opposed roll. Given that Build differences grant penalty dice and make maneuvers impossible with a Build difference of 3+, you'll be thanking your lucky stars (for being Right) that you're being granted an opposed STR/DEX roll. The opposed STR/DEX roll gives Investigators a chance.

Makes sense about Monster Build making escape impossible from larger creatures. I didn't consider that.

So I guess my question is, can you also use a Fighting Maneuver (and whatever bonuses or penalties would go with it) to escape Monster Restraint, or only the opposed STR/DEX roll?

[klecser]

7 hours ago, Grimmshade said:

Makes sense about Monster Build making escape impossible from larger creatures. I didn't consider that.

So I guess my question is, can you also use a Fighting Maneuver (and whatever bonuses or penalties would go with it) to escape Monster Restraint, or only the opposed STR/DEX roll?

Covered on page 108 of the Keeper rulebook.

[Grimmshade]

3 hours ago, klecser said:

Covered on page 108 of the Keeper rulebook.

It's weird to me that the monster attack descriptions don't include it as an option.

[klecser]

12 minutes ago, Grimmshade said:

It's weird to me that the monster attack descriptions don't include it as an option.

Well, it's a base rule of the game. But as Keepers, we adjudicate things in the way that seems most fair to us. I don't feel comfortable telling my players "no," when they have a creative idea for something. And Fighting Maneuvers are designed to encourage creativity through description. 

The "combat actions" specified in the rulebook also don't specify whether "making a STR or DEX roll to escape X" is an action in combat. Yig's grasp maneuver says "opposed STR next round to resist." Does that mean that the "resist" sacrifices an investigator's action? I'd say only if they fail. So, as Keeper, you can decide whether it makes sense to allow an "escape" opposed roll and then grant an investigator an action afterwards.

Call of Cthulhu is squishy. It isn't the defined set of rigid rules you find in many other RPGs. As such, I find it has much more freedom for Keeper decision-making and player-creativity, and it is just a matter of giving ourselves permission to make snap decisions. I'm fully prepared to be corrected by a designer. @Mike M @Paul Fricker But, even if Mike or Paul told me that my interpretation wasn't how it was intended, that wouldn't change how I rule it in any given circumstance. I don't like the idea of denying an investigator an option to act, especially if they made a successful roll to free themselves.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just pointing out that we have the freedom to interpret the rules as we see fit.

[Grimmshade]

2 hours ago, klecser said:

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just pointing out that we have the freedom to interpret the rules as we see fit.

That's one of the things I do like about the system. 

[Odovacer]

Yeah, one thing about this game is that the rules are wiiide open and the constant theme through them is "provide the best story". So, you as a Keeper have all the options to make the best fight scene: Two people fighting? Think wrestling ring or epic movie fight scene and use Fighting Maneuver or just a straight punch-up Fighting Brawl for damage. Tentacle wrapped around an Investigator? Fighting Maneuver likely won't cut it, what could you do? Strength roll to open the coil and slip out. Long claws and multiple stabbing legs a la Shelob? Use DEX to frantically dance around between them. 

Visualise the story and tell it. Easier said then done I know. I little more than a year in and I'm still trying to get it down.

The important thing is: Do what you think is right to tell the story, let the players drive it. How do they want to fight the monster (given it's attach types)?