Jeremysbrain Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) Page 262 Quote The duchy of the Ardennes is ruled by Duke Thierry. His vast domain is divided into five counties: Arlon, Bastogne, Bouillon, La Roche and Salm. Duke Thierry is the Count of Bastogne, and the four remaining counties are governed by Count Galeran of Arlon, Count Aymon of Bouillon, Count Hugo of La Roche and Count Widogast of Salm. So am I missing it or was this County left off The Ardennes map? And there are two rivers on the map named Salm. I'm assuming the County of Salm should be that area north of Trier where the Salm river is and Bitburg, Schleidweiler and Daun are, but not sure. I was interested in this because no information is given on Widogast and he isn't listed as a member of any of the Major Houses so he is perfect for including as a member of the PK's House. Edited August 10, 2021 by Jeremysbrain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Jeremysbrain said: I'm assuming the County of Salm should be that area north of Trier where the Salm river is and Bitburg, Schleidweiler and Daun are, but not sure. Probably, since the modern village of Salm, Germany is located on that river. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yojimbo Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Quote The County of Salm arose in the 10th century in Vielsalm, in the Ardennes region of present Belgium. It was ruled by a junior branch of the House of Luxembourg, called the House of Salm. In 1165, it was divided into the counties of Lower Salm, in the Ardennes, situated in Belgium and Luxembourg, and the county of Upper Salm, situated in the Vosges mountains, present France. From Wikipedia. Presumably, this fictional County of Salm covers the same region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, yojimbo said: From Wikipedia. Presumably, this fictional County of Salm covers the same region. It probably doesn't, since Vielsalm is on the map as a part of the Abbey of Stavelot-Malmedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremysbrain Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 Taking a closer look at the map and comparing it to the text I'm seeing more things that don't match up. It lists Aachen, Chevremont, Herstal, and Jupille as all being part of the Duchy of Ardennes, but they appear on the map in the area described as being Prince-bishopric of Liege. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Personally, I would just create a lay abbot for one of the abbeys (the named abbot could be demoted to the provost, who actually runs the place while the lay abbot just enjoys the benefits). 33 minutes ago, Jeremysbrain said: Taking a closer look at the map and comparing it to the text I'm seeing more things that don't match up. It lists Aachen, Chevremont, Herstal, and Jupille as all being part of the Duchy of Ardennes, but they appear on the map in the area described as being Prince-bishopric of Liege. Well, a certain amount of ambiguity and confusion about borders and outliers and such - especially where church lands are concerned, given how many forged charters claiming this or that bit of land rightfully belonged to the local bishopric or monastery were made - is fitting for a game about feudalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremysbrain Posted August 10, 2021 Author Share Posted August 10, 2021 24 minutes ago, Leingod said: Well, a certain amount of ambiguity and confusion about borders and outliers and such - especially where church lands are concerned, given how many forged charters claiming this or that bit of land rightfully belonged to the local bishopric or monastery were made - is fitting for a game about feudalism. Oh I know that and it could be the case of noncontiguous borders or exclave territory, but none of that is mentioned. Nor is it mentioned which county these settlements are supposed to fall under. Im just searching for the best way to reconcile the map with the text. Exclave of Bastogne is probably the best explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leingod Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Jeremysbrain said: Oh I know that and it could be the case of noncontiguous borders or exclave territory, but none of that is mentioned. Nor is it mentioned which county these settlements are supposed to fall under. Im just searching for the best way to reconcile the map with the text. Exclave of Bastogne is probably the best explanation. Well, it technically doesn't matter much anyway, since Aachen and IIRC at least a few of those other places are directly held by the king himself. For all intents and purposes, they aren't part of the duchy or the prince-bishopric, even if their territory happens to be inside the boundaries of one or the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morien Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Jeremysbrain said: Taking a closer look at the map and comparing it to the text I'm seeing more things that don't match up. It lists Aachen, Chevremont, Herstal, and Jupille as all being part of the Duchy of Ardennes, but they appear on the map in the area described as being Prince-bishopric of Liege. I am not a native speaker, but I read "north of the duchy" meaning in this context as being outside the duchy and towards the north. Since they were not included to the list of palaces WITHIN the duchy, in the previous paragraph (p. 263). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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