Extreme damage with impaling weapons in close combat

[Epicyon]

Hey everyone,

I am somewhat confused about how to calculate extreme damage in close combat when the attacker also has a damage bonus. It seems to me that the rulebooks give contradictory information about this.

So if the attacker scores an extreme success with an impaling melee weapon and also has a damage bonus, what is the correct damage? Let's say we have a small knife (1d4 damage) and a damage bonus of 1d4.

Is it: Maximum weapon damage + maximum damage bonus + roll for weapon damage + roll for damage bonus (4+4+1d4+1d4)? That's how the official character sheet on Roll20 does it.

Or is it: Maximum weapon damage + maximum damage bonus + roll for weapon damage (4+4+1d4)? That's how the example in the Keeper Rulebook 40th Anniversary on page 104 does it. "A character with 1D4 damage bonus achieves an Extreme level of success when attacking with a switchblade. The player rolls 1D4 for the weapon’s damage, and adds the maximum damage the weapon can inflict (4) together with their maximum damage bonus (4). This results in a total of 1D4+8, (a range of 9 to 12 points of damage)."

Or is it: Maximum weapon damage + roll for weapon damage + roll for damage bonus (4+1d4+1d4)? That's how the 40th Anniversary Quickstart Rules explain it on page 13. "if an impaling weapon (like a knife), extreme damage deals maximum damage (of the weapon) plus an additional dice roll for the weapon’s damage and also damage bonus (if any). E.g. when a knife with 1D4 damage causes extreme damage, it deals 4+1D4+damage bonus (if any)."

I am super confused. Which of the three is correct, if any?

[Mike M]

The correct rule is per the Rulebook:

If the attacker achieves an Extreme success with a non- impaling weapon (blunt) = maximum damage plus maximum damage bonus, if any.

If the attacker achieves an Extreme level of success with an impaling weapon (blade or bullet) = maximum damage plus maximum damage bonus, and add a damage roll for the weapon.

[Epicyon]

1 hour ago, Mike M said:

The correct rule is per the Rulebook:

If the attacker achieves an Extreme success with a non- impaling weapon (blunt) = maximum damage plus maximum damage bonus, if any.

If the attacker achieves an Extreme level of success with an impaling weapon (blade or bullet) = maximum damage plus maximum damage bonus, and add a damage roll for the weapon.

Thanks for the clarification! 🙂 So both the official Roll20 character sheets and the explanation in the 40th Anniversary Quickstart rules are wrong, I guess! 😅

[Mike M]

22 hours ago, Epicyon said:

Thanks for the clarification! 🙂 So both the official Roll20 character sheets and the explanation in the 40th Anniversary Quickstart rules are wrong, I guess! 😅

The 40th Anniversary QS rules are correct - they are the same as I already quoted:

"if a blunt weapon, extreme damage deals maximum damage plus damage bonus (if any); if an impaling weapon (like a knife), extreme damage deals maximum damage (of the weapon) plus an additional dice roll for the weapon’s damage and also damage bonus (if any). E.g. when a knife with 1D4 damage causes extreme damage, it deals 4+1D4+damage bonus (if any)."

[DreadDomain]

18 minutes ago, Mike M said:

The 40th Anniversary QS rules are correct - they are the same as I already quoted:

 

"if a blunt weapon, extreme damage deals maximum damage plus damage bonus (if any); if an impaling weapon (like a knife), extreme damage deals maximum damage (of the weapon) plus an additional dice roll for the weapon’s damage and also damage bonus (if any). E.g. when a knife with 1D4 damage causes extreme damage, it deals 4+1D4+damage bonus (if any)."

In your previous post you were mentioning "plus maximum damage bonus" which does not seem to be the case for the quote above.

Edited August 11, 2022 by DreadDomain

[Epicyon]

40 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

In your previous post you were mentioning "plus maximum damage bonus" which does not seem to be the case for the quote above.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm confused about!

The example in the Keeper Rulebook says: maximum weapon damage plus maximum damage bonus plus roll for weapon damage (but not roll for damage bonus). So a total of 1d4+8.

The example the Quick-Start Rules says: maximum weapon damage (without maximum damage bonus) plus roll for weapon damage plus roll for damage bonus. So a total of 2d4+4.

[Mike M]

Sorry - in my second post, where is says "+ damage bonus" it means max DB. The QS omitted the word maximum.