Defensive Skill in BRP?

[The Scarecrow]

Hi guys, is there someone that has never thought about a house rule for making active the defense in BRP?

Actually if I have a 50% in Use Handgun and check, i.e., 23%, I hit the target even if he has an high Agility. It's true that the target may try to dodge but if he decides to hit me instead of dodge my attack, he is automatically hit on my 23%.

In other game systems like D&D or Hero System and so on, the target always offers a difficulty level to the attacker and this level is often based on his/her/its abilities (Agility, Dexterity, Martial Arts skill, or a mix of them...).

Why this isn't possible in BRP? I know that this concept is intrinsically tied to Basic rules but, according to us, it could be possible to work out a sort of "defensive skill" derived, i.e., from the values of Size/Agility/Dodge or similars? And, then, check on this "defensive skill" in order to avoid the otherwise successful enemy's attack? Or better, subtract the % of the target's "defense skill" from the chance to hit of the attacker and check on this difference in order to hit or not?

Edited November 12, 2010 by The Scarecrow

[RosenMcStern]

What would this add to the game?

Once you have active defenses in a game system, you no longer need passive ones. The rules in the new BRP allow you to Dodge any blow unless you are on the ground, tied, or otherwise restrained. So what you fear (you choose to attack instead of dodging) will never happen.

As for big or small targets, there already is a rule for these.

[The Scarecrow]

That's the problem, Rosen. With BRP if you Dodge an attack, you miss the possibility to do your attack in the same round. With concepts like Armor Class (D&D) or Offensive Combat Value (Hero System), just to do two examples, you can offer to the enemy a level of difficulty based on your ability (in partially dodging, evading, experience in combat) and at the same time, you can attack in the same round without loosing an action (and you can also only dodge, if you want).

With the system of active defense, all targets aren't similar because they offer different degree of difficulty based on its own ability in combat; without a defensive (intrinsic) abilty (like in BRP), everyone can hit also, for example, Flash (the superhero) if he don't want to dodge.

I know that in BRP there are the passive defenses after being hit (armor) but I hoped in an alternate rule in order to let choose to the players if using active defense (above mentioned defensive skill or similar) or passive defense (armor, like in the official rules of BRP): this because everyone is able to wear an armor but not all are so skillful in evading/dodging attacks while in active combat.

Edited November 13, 2010 by The Scarecrow

[Merak Gren]

RuneQuest Second Edition from Chaosium had 'Defense' as a skill that was subtracted from an attacker. For multiple attackers it was split. At this stage, there was no active Dodge skill.

It was there to simulate what you say, that some things are harder to hit than others. If you missed as a direct result of 'defence' you could check it for improvement.

In my experience, I didn't like it and when I run RQ2, I changed it for an active dodge. It required too much effort on my part to remember it was there, allocate it and then work out if it had been used or not.

Also, it reminded me of AD&D and I prefered to have an active dodge as it is more tactical.

Do I risk being hit for my attack, or should I dodge? Also, some of the more restictive dodge variants, placed greater emphasis on parrying which I prefer.

I've never done supers but check out how the pwers chapter deals with speedy super powers.

However, this was dropped.

[frogspawner]

With BRP if you Dodge an attack, you miss the possibility to do your attack in the same round.

What? Surely not! You get to do an Attack and a Dodge (or an Attack and a Parry) - or am I missing something here?

[Merak Gren]

What? Surely not! You get to do an Attack and a Dodge (or an Attack and a Parry) - or am I missing something here?

That's the rule in CoC and some other flavours of BRP. This is not the case in the BGB.

The only restriction in BGB is that you cannot Dodge and parry the same attack.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

RuneQuest Second Edition from Chaosium had 'Defense' as a skill that was subtracted from an attacker. [...] In my experience, I didn't like it and when I run RQ2, I changed it for an active dodge. It required too much effort on my part to remember it was there, allocate it and then work out if it had been used or not.

I had the same experience, defence was fine in principle but more difficult to apply than dodge (which we houseruled before the appearance of RQ3). If you don't mind the extra mental arithmetic, it works fine.

[The Scarecrow]

Then where can I find these rules? In RQ2?

frogspawner, are you sure that in BRP I can attack and dodge (or parry) in the same round?

[RosenMcStern]

Then where can I find these rules? In RQ2?

They are in the Golden Book, too. Defense is a super power, but you can use it as a special kind of skill. Please note that Jason has explicitly stated in this forum that he considered putting Defense back in the rules, but discarded the idea. Take the opinion of people who have 30+ years of experience into account when judging if a rule works or not.

frogspawner, are you sure that in BRP I can attack and dodge (or parry) in the same round?

Yes. It states that you cannot Dodge and Parry in the same round, but you can Attack and Dodge or Attack and Parry. Your "Flash the superhero" example is simply not applicable to BRP: there is no reason whatsoever why Flash would decide not to Dodge. You are simply thinking of rules that belong to other systems you are more familiar with, but these do not apply to any variants of BRP published by Chaosium since 1990.

this because everyone is able to wear an armor but not all are so skillful in evading/dodging attacks while in active combat.

Actually, this is better modeled by BRP's Dodge skill than by D&D's Armor class...

[frogspawner]

Yes. It states that you cannot Dodge and Parry in the same round, but you can Attack and Dodge or Attack and Parry.

Phew! After Merak's apparently contrary assertion, I was beginning to doubt it... Thanks for saving my sanity there, Rosen. What there is of it.

[Merak Gren]

Phew! After Merak's apparently contrary assertion, I was beginning to doubt it... Thanks for saving my sanity there, Rosen. What there is of it.

My bad.

[The Scarecrow]

Thank to all, friends