Eight original planets?

[Yazurkial]

The entry in the Prosopaedia about Dendara mentions the "Eight Original Planets," of whom Shargash and Buserian still live. Who were the others? Is there a direct relationship to the ten cities of Dara Happa, other than the two central cities?

[mfbrandi]

Ten planets (GtG, p. 672):

1. Zaytenara(s)°
2. Buserian
3. Reladivus
4. Shargash (Tolat)
5. Derdurnus
6. Deumalos
7. Falsoretus
8. Verithurus(a)
9. Ghevengus
10. Ghelotralas°

This being Glorantha, there is likely a conflicting story, too.

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° These two are the odd ones out, I think — the ones you don’t want? — not being “celestial sons of Yelm”.

[metcalph]

The planets (with names of Dara Happan Gods) are:

• Sun (Yelm)
• Moskalf (Entekos/Dendara)
• Shargash (Shargash)
• Wagon (Lokarnos)
• The Blue Moon (Falsoretus)
• Artia
• Mastakos (Uleria)
• Red Moon (Verithurusa/Sedenya)
• Lightfore (Yelmalio)
• The Twinstars

Buserian is most probably associated with Lightfore as like Yelmalio, he has the Truth rune.

That leaves Ghevengus, Reladivus, Derdernus and Deumalos. 

Ghevengus or Veng are probably associated with Artia as they are bird deities whereas she is associated with bats.  Perhaps it was a planet of the Birds which got devastated in the Gods War and only Bats live there now?

Reladivus was perhaps a precursor to Lokarnos as the God of the Wagon Planet.

Derdurnus and Deumalos are practically obscure as we know very little about them or how the ancient Dara Happans viewed the planets they might represent.  It seems to me for example that the Twinstars had become a single planet with only an relic cult of their ancient duality surviving.  

Another way of looking at it would be that these are the ancient powers of the Celestial Court (Truth, Illusion, Motion, Stasis etc) attending to the Emperor (Yelm).  The Planet Shargash is a stand-in for Kargan Tor and Orenoar might have been associated with Lightfore.  Larnste would have been associated with the planet Mastakos.  Uleria might have been associated with the Twinstars but that would require an elaborate fanwank using a Pelandan myth involving her and Vogmaradan.

One could also use a similar exercise with the Avanparloth but the same problem occurs: the details don't mesh up with each other and we are unsure why.

 

 

 

[Richard S.]

The copper plates of Yuthuppa (Mythology, p40) name the eight original sons as Zator, Reladivus, Shargash, Derdurnus, Deumalos, Falsoretus, Verithurus, and Ghevengus. They're all in the Prosopaedia I think.

[Richard S.]

8 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Ten planets (GtG, p. 672):

1. Zaytenara(s)°
2. Buserian
3. Reladivus
4. Shargash (Tolat)
5. Derdurnus
6. Deumalos
7. Falsoretus
8. Verithurus(a)
9. Ghevengus
10. Ghelotralas°

This being Glorantha, there is likely a conflicting story, too.

——————————————————
° These two are the odd ones out, I think — the ones you don’t want? — not being “celestial sons of Yelm”.

To further add to the issue, the Well entry for "eight celestial sons of yelm" lists Derdurnus, Deumalos, Falsoretus, Ghelotralas, Ghevengus, Reladivus, Verithurusa, Zator, and Zaytenera. Though considering all of their individual pages are under "recently updated" I think it may still be a work in progress.

Zator I think is Buserian, since they have the same personal rune. Reladivus is identified with Kargzant.

[David Scott]

 

14 hours ago, Yazurkial said:

Is there a direct relationship to the ten cities of Dara Happa, other than the two central cities?

err, they match the sons...

See https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/tag/one-of-the-eight-celestial-sons-of-yelm/ The Copper Plates of Yuthuppa in Mythology are the best source. Note that Ghelotralas shares the same glyph as Duemalos (Lodril as a star) and has the same story as Lodril (descending to earth). 

See the Ancient Celestial Runes in the Glorious Reaccent of Yelm for the glyph key.

1. Yuthubars - Arraz (note that Yuthubars and Raibanth occupy the same place)
2. Raibanth - Murharzarm (for completeness)
3. Abgammon - Buserian (Zator)
4. Senthoros - Zayteneras
5. Alkoth -  Shargash
6. Nivorah - Reladivus
7. Hamados - Deumalos 
8. Akuturos - Lodril (Ghelotralas)
9. Verapur - Jethsarum (Ghevengus)
10. Mernita - Jernedeus (Verithurus)

Note that Gloranthan mythology isn't an exact science and so prepared to be frustrated when it doesn't make (logical) sense.