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Meanings of Superworld/BRP Strength & Size scores


Matt

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Hello all,

This may be the incorrect place to ask this--if so, please kindly direct me to the correct forum--but I was hoping someone could help me understand what a Strength score means in Superworld. I understand it's the same as BRP, but I could be wrong.

I am re-reading the rules to Superworld and I don't see that there is a Strength table anywhere in the book. I don't really understand what, for example, a score of 12 means: how much can I lift? Is a Strength of 24 double the lifting capacity of 12? Additionally, I don't see where a Size score gives a certain weight. I see they give the "full weight" of an automobile as Size 50, but I'm not sure how much that is supposed to be since automobiles can vary quite a bit. Is there anyplace I can find an example, i.e., Size 50 = approximately 3,000 lbs. and/or Strength 50 = lifting capacity 3,000 lbs.?

There is a Resistance Table, which I need to use to compare Strength to Size to determine whether I can lift something, but without knowing actual weights and measurements it is all very abstract to me. Am I missing or overlooking something? Or can some kind soul direct me to a place where such information is available?

Yours truly,

Matt

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Matt, if you have the boxed Superworld there are those eight pages of Reference Sheets included. There is a SIZ Table on page seven. It will answer most of your questions. A STR of 50 means 2 English Tons or roughly a medium car for example.

There are some issues, but as a general guideline it should be helpful to you.

If you have the BGB (Big Gold Book) for BRP, you can find a character SIZ chart on page 26 and a Comparative SIZ chart on page 296.

Edited by ORtrail
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Thank you for your help! I wasn't sure if anyone would be familiar with my 30-year-old game.

I don't have the BRP book yet...waiting for it to arrive. I bought it as a resource for use with Superworld. I have 2 boxed sets and the "Companion to Superworld." The reference sheets reprint tables from the books, but I see I somehow missed the SIZ table in the back of the "Superheroes" book. Looks like STR just tells me a % chance to lift a certain SIZ/weight rather than a straight STR X = lift weight Y, is that right? I can live with that, but it will be a little harder to explain to a player who wants to have a particular strongman.

I want to use Superworld because (1) I have two copies, (2) I like the lower scale of power for starting PCs (as compared to Champions, V&V, MSH FASERIP, and Mayfair DC Heroes), and (3) percentages are easier to understand than "Roll 3d6 vs. 11-" and the like and some or all of my players will be new to it.

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The Comparative SIZ chart in the BGB only gives a list of weights, the Reference Sheet from Superworld gives examples of common objects so I find that more useful. That said, I would use the listed weight/object as the base for a hero to lift/throw.

I need to mention that despite owning a like-new boxed set of Superworld, I have only ever used the Superworld from the Worlds of Wonder boxed set and the designer notes from Different Worlds #23. Oh, and a healthy dose of houserules. I only did a quick read through the Superworld boxed set many years ago, and didn't like all the rules "crunch" that was added, so I have stayed with the WoW version.

Yes, all these years later, and I am still using Superworld/BRP rules. Why? Well, my fondness comics and the super RPG genre. Also, my comfort level with the game system, ease of explaining a percentage system to gaming newbies, and I prefer the low-powered type of super heroes (Captain America, Batman, on up to no more than a Spider-Man level). I enjoy when the heroes find trained minions annoying to dangerous in combat and can't just ignore their attacks even when armed with normal weapons.

Like many old (school) gamers I started with V&V, then went to Marvel Super Heroes, and finally discovered Superworld when I bought the WoW boxed set. Never could get past all the D6 crunch of Champions and none of the newer super hero games have drawn me in. The older I get, the less inclined I am to learn a new game system. BRP is so flexible, though I admit it would be a poor fit for Hulk, Thor, Iron Man level supers.

Actually, the tale of my getting back into regular gaming, and Superworld in particular, is covered pretty well in this thread:

Newbie Gamer Advice

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I need to mention that despite owning a like-new boxed set of Superworld, I have only ever used the Superworld from the Worlds of Wonder boxed set and the designer notes from Different Worlds #23. Oh, and a healthy dose of houserules. I only did a quick read through the Superworld boxed set many years ago, and didn't like all the rules "crunch" that was added, so I have stayed with the WoW version.

Yes, all these years later, and I am still using Superworld/BRP rules. Why? Well, my fondness comics and the super RPG genre. Also, my comfort level with the game system, ease of explaining a percentage system to gaming newbies, and I prefer the low-powered type of super heroes (Captain America, Batman, on up to no more than a Spider-Man level). I enjoy when the heroes find trained minions annoying to dangerous in combat and can't just ignore their attacks even when armed with normal weapons.

Like many old (school) gamers I started with V&V, then went to Marvel Super Heroes, and finally discovered Superworld when I bought the WoW boxed set. Never could get past all the D6 crunch of Champions and none of the newer super hero games have drawn me in. The older I get, the less inclined I am to learn a new game system. BRP is so flexible, though I admit it would be a poor fit for Hulk, Thor, Iron Man level supers.

The game I really want to run or play wouldn't have any super heroes more powerful than Spider-Man. More along the lines of the power levels of super heroes on TV in the '70s and '80s, where the most Wonder Woman ever lifted was the rear half of a getaway car and several thugs were enough to give Spider-Man a hard time. I'm thinking "Miami Vice meets TV Wonder Woman." Guys with guns should definitely be a problem.

I can't handle the grit and number-crunching required for Champions anymore and V&V doesn't suit the type of game I described above. New games make my eyes glaze over with hundreds of pages that try to cover every possible eventuality that might arise, or substitutions of rolling dice over role-playing a scene to see what results.

Superworld is due for a comeback as the underappreciated, underrated gem that it is.

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Looks like STR just tells me a % chance to lift a certain SIZ/weight rather than a straight STR X = lift weight Y, is that right? I can live with that, but it will be a little harder to explain to a player who wants to have a particular strongman.

Whoops, I meant to explain my thoughts on this a bit more. If you go with the Resistance Table, then a character with STR 50 has a 50/50 shot of lifting a SIZ 50 object. Since we are dealing with the super hero genre here, I would (and have) gone with the rule interpretation that SIZ 50 is the base (100% chance of success) for a STR 50 character, or no roll needed in other words.

For each SIZ point over STR 50 you subtract 5% from their chance, so a SIZ 60 object would need a 50% roll or less. A SIZ 70 object would simply be too big to move for our hero, while a SIZ 69 would have a 5% chance and so on.

If you want to get more crunchy? Add one SIZ point for every 2 meters they try to throw an object, so our hero picks up a medium car and throws it 20 meters at a villian. He would need to roll 50% for the lift/throw and then again for the actual attack roll. You can reverse the numbers for smaller objects. For example, he could grab a SIZ 10 object and throw it 80 meters with a 100% chance (STR 50 - SIZ 10 = 40 meters * 2) or try to throw it even farther say, 100 meters with a 50% chance to get there. OR you could increase it to one SIZ point for every 3 meters for a more "super" fun time.

I seldom stop to worry about exact distances and such during play, I think the super hero genre is best played fast-and-loose. Roll good, good things happen. :)

BTW, I enjoyed reading your blog.

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Whoops, I meant to explain my thoughts on this a bit more. If you go with the Resistance Table, then a character with STR 50 has a 50/50 shot of lifting a SIZ 50 object. Since we are dealing with the super hero genre here, I would (and have) gone with the rule interpretation that SIZ 50 is the base (100% chance of success) for a STR 50 character, or no roll needed in other words.

For each SIZ point over STR 50 you subtract 5% from their chance, so a SIZ 60 object would need a 50% roll or less. A SIZ 70 object would simply be too big to move for our hero, while a SIZ 69 would have a 5% chance and so on.

If you want to get more crunchy? Add one SIZ point for every 2 meters they try to throw an object, so our hero picks up a medium car and throws it 20 meters at a villian. He would need to roll 50% for the lift/throw and then again for the actual attack roll. You can reverse the numbers for smaller objects. For example, he could grab a SIZ 10 object and throw it 80 meters with a 100% chance (STR 50 - SIZ 10 = 40 meters * 2) or try to throw it even farther say, 100 meters with a 50% chance to get there. OR you could increase it to one SIZ point for every 3 meters for a more "super" fun time.

I seldom stop to worry about exact distances and such during play, I think the super hero genre is best played fast-and-loose. Roll good, good things happen. :)

BTW, I enjoyed reading your blog.

Less crunch is better for me. I'm a less-is-more guy when it comes to rules. Two of my favorite games are West End Games' Ghostbusters and Star Wars due to their simplicity and how a new player can intuit so much of the mechanic and learn the games very quickly. I find the Call of Cthulhu and Superworld mechanics to be almost as easy to learn. Like I said, percentage rolls are easier to comprehend than chucking a handful of six-siders or a 20-sider versus a target number. TSR's Marvel Super Heroes is a good one but the power levels would be too high for what I have in mind. I agree super heroes should be pretty fast and loose--it's part of why I won't play Champions these days. Aside from character generation taking a lifetime, once a fight breaks out...yikes, might as well go watch a sitcom while a punch gets resolved.

Now I just need to convince some folks to try Superworld...unfortunately most potential players I meet are just interested in Pathfinder (which I understand is a version of AD&D?) or the flavor of the month like Marvel Heroic (which I couldn't wrap my head around...it seemed like the whole point of the mechanics was to make it as easy as possible on the PCs, but I could be wrong). Nobody in my neck of the woods seems interested in the classics.

Thanks re: my blog. I wish I had time to post more frequently. I keep writing down topics but haven't found the time to do the in-depth entries that would make them worthwhile pursuits.

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The Spider-Man of that 70's TV show was quite the wuss. It must have been budget and special effects issues, but they toned him so far down from what he could do in the comics. I do understand wanting to play in a low level supers campaign, and that BRP can do well.

As for finding a group, well, it is tough. Schedule conflicts and busy lives, then you figure most are not that interested in super hero rpgs. However, with the popularity of all the super hero movies? If you can show them a lot of enthusiasm for a super campaign? I think you could get a few people interested.

Pathfinder, which seems to be more popular now than D&D, has a supers game called Heroes Wear Masks. I don't care for the level system, but you could get the PDF version for cheap (I tend to collect super hero games). I have bought Icons, Supers, Heroes Wear Masks, and one or two other super hero RPG PDFs over the last couple years. I still game with Superworld, but you can usually mine some ideas here and there from other games. In fact, I have print copies of Heroes Unlimited, Golden Heroes, Challengers, Marvel Super Heroes, GURPS Supers, Silver Age Sentinels, The Batman RPG, Mutants & Masterminds (first edition), Godsend Agenda, Guardians RPG, and DC Adventures.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. :)

There are a lot of BRP game system games out there, so you could try to get a group involved with another genre and then announce you want to run a BRP super hero game. At that point they know the game system, so that hurdle is removed. You might have a list of the type of heroes you are looking for, so they don't try and play a Hulk or Superman in a low power campaign. Sell them on Punisher/Wolverine level heroes if you can.

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I'm an old Champions grognard, so fistfuls of dice don't bother me. Superworld does give you a different take on supers, though, as I found out when I tried to build a sample character in both systems in another thread.

http://basicroleplaying.com/basic-roleplaying/brp-superheroes-projects-2474/

DEX 15 is pretty equivalent in both systems. But STR 40 in Hero System lets you toss cars around; STR 40 in Superworld won't even allow you to lift one.

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The Spider-Man of that 70's TV show was quite the wuss. It must have been budget and special effects issues, but they toned him so far down from what he could do in the comics. I do understand wanting to play in a low level supers campaign, and that BRP can do well.

As for finding a group, well, it is tough. Schedule conflicts and busy lives, then you figure most are not that interested in super hero rpgs. However, with the popularity of all the super hero movies? If you can show them a lot of enthusiasm for a super campaign? I think you could get a few people interested.

Pathfinder, which seems to be more popular now than D&D, has a supers game called Heroes Wear Masks. I don't care for the level system, but you could get the PDF version for cheap (I tend to collect super hero games). I have bought Icons, Supers, Heroes Wear Masks, and one or two other super hero RPG PDFs over the last couple years. I still game with Superworld, but you can usually mine some ideas here and there from other games. In fact, I have print copies of Heroes Unlimited, Golden Heroes, Challengers, Marvel Super Heroes, GURPS Supers, Silver Age Sentinels, The Batman RPG, Mutants & Masterminds (first edition), Godsend Agenda, Guardians RPG, and DC Adventures.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. :)

There are a lot of BRP game system games out there, so you could try to get a group involved with another genre and then announce you want to run a BRP super hero game. At that point they know the game system, so that hurdle is removed. You might have a list of the type of heroes you are looking for, so they don't try and play a Hulk or Superman in a low power campaign. Sell them on Punisher/Wolverine level heroes if you can.

I prefer TV Spider-Man to anything the comic books have done in the past 30 years.

I would never use the Punisher or Wolverine as an example...players will confuse power level with "gritty '90s vigilantes wearing leather jackets and pouches." Besides, their power levels fluctuate depending on which issue or era you are reading. Wolverine used to be a wimp before he became an unkillable thousand-year-old ninja (or whatever he is now). I have found the descriptor "TV super heroes like Spider-Man and Wonder Woman" gives a much better indication of power level.

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I'm an old Champions grognard, so fistfuls of dice don't bother me. Superworld does give you a different take on supers, though, as I found out when I tried to build a sample character in both systems in another thread.

http://basicroleplaying.com/basic-roleplaying/brp-superheroes-projects-2474/

DEX 15 is pretty equivalent in both systems. But STR 40 in Hero System lets you toss cars around; STR 40 in Superworld won't even allow you to lift one.

Yes, I have played a good deal of Champions. They lost me at 5th edition when the rules began to read like city ordinances. Unfortunately the majority of Hero System players I have dealt with are more interested in loopholes and trying to cheat their way to extra points with non-Disadvantage Disadvantages and get mad when I tell hem what the book says plainly: "A Disadvantage that isn't a disadvantage is worth zero points."

I also dislike the obsession they have with "building" everything through their rules. Instead of just saying "it's a toothbrush"...we get a list of powers and -1/2 cost modifiers to show how flexible Hero System is and how "it can build anything!"

Edited by Matt
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Tut, tut, that's a -1 Limitation for Obvious, Accessible Focus, since the toothbrush can be seen by bystanders while in use and can be snatched away with a successful DEX or Sleight of Hand skill roll (Fine Manipulation in BRP terms). Take another -2 Limitation, Independent, since another character could take and use the toothbrush for himself (yuck!).

In Superworld phraseology, it's one level of Protection vs. plaque, 1 power point to use (since, of course, you're scrubbing your teeth vigorously for at least 3 minutes. Aren't you? No, no, no. None or this "swirl it around and spit" nonsense. Go right back in there and brush 'em right this time, young man!).

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Tut, tut, that's a -1 Limitation for Obvious, Accessible Focus, since the toothbrush can be seen by bystanders while in use and can be snatched away with a successful DEX or Sleight of Hand skill roll (Fine Manipulation in BRP terms). Take another -2 Limitation, Independent, since another character could take and use the toothbrush for himself (yuck!).

In Superworld phraseology, it's one level of Protection vs. plaque, 1 power point to use (since, of course, you're scrubbing your teeth vigorously for at least 3 minutes. Aren't you? No, no, no. None or this "swirl it around and spit" nonsense. Go right back in there and brush 'em right this time, young man!).

You made me smile. I gather you've dealt with this bizarre aspect of Hero a number of times. Not knocking the game itself, as I ran a campaign for about 6 months just over a year ago. Works well if everyone agrees not to abuse it.

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