svensson

WOW.

You just inadvertently helped me a lot! I'm teaching some young women in my family RQ and I hope this illo will be inspiring for them.

And I LOVE the look on the 'Amazon' with the broken spear on the bottom-right. The Big Ugly Lizard has her dead to rights and she knows it. She's taken her best shot and all it did was leave her vulnerable. The expression of fury, fear, and a large dose of 'OH SHIT!' is wonderful.

As for the creature it's too big to be a beaked dragonewt, at least from scale charts in various sources, so I'm going to guess that it is a Slarge.

1 hour ago, Cloud64 said:

Well, it's not at your table is it and, frankly, this isn't the first post of yours that I take as insulting the way I run my table. Not only that, you are making assumptions and don't seem to have paid much attention to what I've actually said.

 

1. No insult is intended in any way, shape, or form. 'If it were my table' is just another way of saying 'if it were my decision'. You will do what you think is good for your group and there isn't a single thing I could do to stop you - - and I never intended to stop you to begin with. Your Glorantha Will Vary.

2. I apologize that you feel insulted.

3. Yes, I sometimes do trip up and misread or misinterpret the OP. It's a bad habit and one that I work on.

1 hour ago, Eff said:

None of this explains why it would be a problem if they had dragon-hide armor out of it too, if killing a dragon is such an unprecedented accomplishment. 

Were it at my table, I would find the rewards for 'Dragon of Thunder Hills' entirely sufficient for a party of PCs. I'd be concerned about overloading player expectations that similar Monty Hauls were in their future, in addition to having to up-gun their future opponents.

If they wanted the dragonskin armor, they can be required to return King Benevenos's grave goods to his tomb with the thanks of a grateful Colymar tribe. And by 'thanks' I mean 'honoring him annually with gifts and magic points'. In fact, if you were ref'ing a clan relationship properly, it's not entirely out of the question that the clan chief or tribal king/queen demand the dragon's skin to become part of the tribal regalia or ancestral treasures.

There is a danger to a game of 'combat creep', where combat in RQ loses its edge and players start to think that they can wade through hoards of trollkin without getting hurt. Once your AP exceeds 10, that creep can become reality. High-speed/low-drag armor and weaponry should be awarded one at a time in RQ, not in huge mounds like it was some Forgotten Realms game. One of a referee's most difficult problems in any game is managing player greed for 'everything good, all at once'.  That is what I'm talking about.

Mods, delete please

3 hours ago, Eff said:

Why are those things problems? The PCs did indeed slay a dragon, did they not?

Mods, delete please

3 hours ago, Eff said:

Why are those things problems? The PCs did indeed slay a dragon, did they not?

Mods, delete please.

3 hours ago, Eff said:

Why are those things problems? The PCs did indeed slay a dragon, did they not?

And they were WELL rewarded for the effort. The haul for killing Yerezum Storn [the antagonist in 'The Dragon of the Thunder Hills'] is as significant a reward as I've ever seen in an RQ game. Let me show you:

- +2d6 REP [3d6 if the party keeps the head and betrays the dragonewts]

- +1 CHA [+2 if they keep the head as above]

- An open-ended favor from a Tailed Priest stage dragonewt. +1d6 REP when it's used [assuming the party doesn't betray him]

- Founding a cult of their own, +1d6 REP +1 CHA

[total CHA reward limit of +3]

- An enchanted tempered iron helm, breastplate, and shield, each of which is already famous as a dragon-killer's panoply

- An enchanted tempered iron spear and javelin, each of which is already famous as dragon-slaying weapons.

- 4 additional hides of land

- a herd of 20 cattle from the royal stud

So let me ask the question again, what do the players need as a reward?

On 2/20/2023 at 7:13 PM, Erol of Backford said:

If the armor is the same as bronze (I think 8AP in 2 different scenarios IIRC) but weighs a bit less encumbrance and is more comfortable what's the big hullabaloo about?

Well there's a couple things.

As @Squaredeal Sten points out, there are NO 'typical' dream dragons. Each one is a unique creature, a unique fragment of a True Dragon's dreams. A 'living' dream dragon's skin with 12 AP isn't unreasonable [reduced to 9 or 10 after tanning].

And it's not just about the statistics. There is the fame and notoriety of owning such a prestigious piece of gear. Tempered and Enchanted Iron is utterly common in comparison to being 'The Guy That Owns Dragon Scale Armor'. And how the Hell else is one going to claim the title 'Dragonslayer' without proof of this magnitude. The dragon skin could be just augmented cuirboulli, say 4 or 5 AP, and it would STILL be worth the fame and glory attached to the gear.

Here in 21st Century Earth, we've had the notions of 'proving your worth' and 'glory' knocked out of us. Two World Wars and a neverending series of brushfire wars will do that. But in Glorantha, fame and glory are the bread and butter of every professional warrior. Defaming a man's reputation is a killing matter and many a boy has lost his life in pursuit of glory, fame, reputation, and notoriety. Owning the ONLY verified suit of Dragon Skin Armor would be a huge cachet to a warrior name and fame.

36 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

Why wouldn't you be able to get several sections of armor from a large creature's skin or a full suit or more? When I was a GM/DM 30 years ago I'd have allowed it. More game fun and it would've generated a long list of quest/scenario hooks for PC's.

I suppose that asks the question how many size points of leather do you need to make a certain size suit of leather armor and go from there. If you were to slay a SIZ 70 dragon maybe half the SIZ could be used for armor if skinning rolls were succeeded and a certain "craft dragon skin" skill was learned, again the quartet of subject matter experts may need to be paid a visit: Scholar Wyrm, Windwhistler, Eyes-Shut and Forang Forash.

A dream dragon's physical form fades if it is 'slain'... you don't actually kill a dream dragon, you just change it's dreams. It fades as quickly as the referee says it does, but there are RQG books that quote a 1 AP per year rate. Those same citations caution referees in flippantly handing out dragon-skin armor. This isn't the Forgotten Realms where dragons are color-coded, classified by threat levels, and are so common as to have dragon skin armor as a common reward. Anyone wearing a dragon's skin will have a unique item. So IF the referee even allows such an over-powered item in their game, the cost of getting the hide made into armor should be a full year's income AT MINIMUM. And even then the Chief Priest of your temple and/or you clan chief or tribal king will wonder out loud why you didn't gift the armor to temple, clan, or tribe for the betterment of all.

And if the player does somehow get a set of dragon skin armor, every other knucklehead with blade longer than a butter knife will be challenging the famous dragon killer to claim the armor. Humans are, after all, a Hell of a lot easier to kill than dream dragons! Even Heroes-with-a-capital-H like Jar-Eel or Harrek might take the time to 'visit' the steading of the PC to get such a prize.

Lastly, given the rewards of the scenario, I really do think that handing out the materials for dragon skin armor is too much. The players get 3 pieces of enchanted iron armor, two iron weapons, a bunch of Fame, more land, possibly a raise in social status, the opportunity to found their own freaking cult AND an open ended 'favor' from a dragonewt priest. What the Hell ELSE do they need, fer cryin' out loud?

Huh.

I would possibly let a few scales survive for, say, a breastplate, shield or helm, enough for one or two players. But a full suit? Um, NOPE.

I'm gonna presume that the OP did the dragon hunt in the GM Pack. If so, even with returning the Obsidian Blade to the Dragonewts, the rewards for that quest are significant.. up to and including founding a cult!... and the material rewards especially so. If that's the scenario the GM ran, then there isn't any need for dragon skin armor at all. A full panoply of Orlanthi dragon hunter gear is plenty and then some.

My opinions are taken from Greg's article in The Runequest Companion and Different Worlds about Dragonewt armor.

Ask yourself.... Do you really want a pissed off beaked dragonewt on your trail forever? You see, the violated dragonewt can infallibly track his skin. And if you kill him, he'll come back again. Oftentimes, he comes back with friends.

They may not know who you are, they just know you have what they want. If you're looking for ransom, they really don't understand concept very well. They do, however, possess a very special sets of skills, skills learned in multiple lifetimes. Skills that make them a nightmare for thin-skins like you. If you give the armor back right now, the will [probably] not look for you, but if you don't, they will look for you. And they will find you and they will kill you. [with a respectful nod to Bryan Mills 😁]

Keeping a set of dragonewt armor is tantamount to signing your own death warrant. But if that's your thing, well, party on, Wayne.

On 2/15/2023 at 2:21 PM, Rick Meints said:

Chances are, if you want to purchase it as soon as you can and get the item in your hands, ordering it on Chaosium.com is your best bet. (and you get a free PDF of that physical product).

There's a balance to be struck, I think.

I want to support BOTH my favorite games companies and the brick and mortar FLGS. Both of these venues are vital for the growth of gaming as a hobby and both are necessary for sales of the products we love and support. Personally, I try and trade off, one product from the company store and one product from the FLGS. And no products from Amazon. 😁

3 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Although in this case it is Hey Zeus Herbert who may be misbehaving and his followers who would find that objectionable. We do sometimes tell tales of old JC getting up to no good, as in the folk song/carol The Bitter Withy.

  Reveal hidden contents

The Bitter Withy (Peter Bellamy version)

As it fell out upon a bright holiday
Small hail from the sky did fall;
Our Saviour asked his mother dear
If he might play at ball.

“At ball? At ball? My own dear son?
It's time that you was gone,
But don't let me hear of any doings
Tonight when you return.”

So it's up the hill, and down the hill
Our sweet young Saviour ran,
Until he met three rich young lords
All playing in the sun.

“Good morn, good morn, good morn”, cried they,
“Good morning,” oh says he,
“And which one of you three rich young lords
Will play at ball with me?”

“Well, we're all lords' and ladies' sons,
All born in a bower and hall,
And you are nothing but a Jewish child
Born in an oxen stall”

“Well, though you're lords' and ladies' sons
All born in your bower and hall
I'll prove to you at your latter end
I'm an angel above you all”

So he built him a bridge from the beams of the sun
And over the river danced he;
Them rich young lords followed after him
And drowned they was all three.

So it's up the hill and down the hill
Three rich young mothers run
Crying “Mary mild, fetch you home your child
For ours he's drowned each one.”

So Mary mild fetched home her child,
She laid him across her knee
And with a bundle of withy twigs
She gave him thrashes three.

“Oh bitter withy. oh bitter withy
That causes me to smart.
Oh the withy shall be very first tree
To perish at the heart.”

You wanna see somebody get spooled up? Tell an evangelical fundamentalist that you believe that The Christ and Mary Magdalena had, um, 'conjugal relations'. It's like winding up the Energizer Bunny....

13 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

According to Cults of Terror, p90, The Arkat Cult has a "strict moral code clearly within the bounds of acceptable non-chaotic behavior".  One might assume that this precludes the use of chaotic magic.

That's the cult, not the man.

I'm pretty sure that every single Christian denomination does something The Christ would find objectionable. Humans are fallible. Prophets get misheard, apostles misunderstand the lesson, scripture gets mistranslated. And all of that sometimes happens on purpose.

Now I grant you that Gloranthan gods have far more direct contact with their worshipers than here on Terra, but published sources show that worshipers get stuff about Orlanth and Ernalda wrong all the time.

As I understand it, the answer in canon is that there is no proof as to whether or not Arkat did stoop to using Chaotic magic.

There is general agreement that if the right circumstances presented themselves or if there was a pressing tactical need, Arkat would most likely [but not definitely] use any tool he could get his hands on. Everything else was grist for the mill in his quest to defeat Gbadji [he even became a troll!] so most scholars of the First Age don't think he'd many compunctions about using Chaos.

Note: Arkat underwent the full Uz Adoption Rite. That means that he was ritually vivisected while still living until he died and was reborn in Darkness. The process adds various Trollish features to a human's body and adds the Darkness Rune to their spirit. A person who undergoes this rite would appear to be a deformed and ugly human with troll fangs protruding from their mouth and the ability to eat anything... however they're never satiated, they will ALWAYS be hungry. Arkat wasn't just initiated into a cult of the Uz, like joining Argan Argar or Zorak Zoran. Arkat literally changed races and BECAME a troll. And not just 'a troll', he became a Mistress Race Ancestral Troll.

Insofar as I know, other than becoming a broo via the Blessing of Thed there is no other way to voluntarily change your species in RQ.

If this is the case, then I'm kinda glad I didn't sink money into the current edition. I very much like the QuickStart, but I'd rather not spend $65 twice.

Answering the OP:

The law and custom of primogeniture seeks to keep property in the hands of the named family and, failing that, specifically describing the lineage necessary to inherit that property if the direct male descendant line dies out.

Strictly adhering to that basis, Sir Celyn would inherit the family's tenured fief. Lady Bronwyn has married. English, French and German law in the Crusades era all clearly state that she takes on her husband's prospects [titles, lineages, properties, etc.] and that her son has no claim to Sir Alain's lands while a direct male heir of her father still lives.

But yes, the noble senior to the 'MacAlain' family [be it baron, count, earl or duke] will certainly have an opinion of who ought to inherit the property if any bar exists to Sir Celyn.... if Sir Celyn were a felon, or had a disease that might impact his heirs [leprosy, for example], or was a bastard [acknowledged or not]. And the two points that the liege lord will look at are: a] How will this effect my feudal muster and b] How do I think any heir will do in paying their taxes and stewarding the fief.

Funny stuff aside, the Grail Quest's entire intent is for knights to embrace the character traits that are hardest for them to reach... Knights by their nature are a proud and willful lot. They risk their lives for Lord, Lady, and Land often and do so by choice. They have an entirely justified pride on very masculine skills... skill at arms, skill at hunting, skill with horses, etc. And the whole point of the Cult of Courtly Love [and for that matter the Cult of the Virgin Mary] is to soften and humanize these meatheads in metal shirts.

The Grail Quest emphasizes the antithesis of these traits: humility over pride, innocence over worldliness, submission over dominance. And while most Christian knights have had some exposure to this [though most usually pay it lip service at most], pagan knights will have a **significantly** harder time embracing the goals of the Grail.

If the Grail in KAP has a 'personality' or some kind of will of it's own [instead of being symbolic object], I'd venture to say that your pagan knights would stand no chance whatsoever of even finding the Grail until they converted. It might be better story-wise for you to use the Grail quest as a guide to develop a pagan quest of similar mythic significance.

Of Daka Fal? No.

Of Thed and Mallia, yes.

It doesn't matter what the staple foods are when we are discussing the organization of the food supply at the city level. The issue at hand here is the method by which food is distributed to a high concentration of those who cannot grow their own and at what medium of exchange and price point of exchange.

Now, I'm not getting all 'MBA' here and substituting 'widget' for something as vital as the food supply. It's of obvious importance on a local level what can be grown, how often it can be harvested, and how it can be preserved. This is Glorantha not the Forgotten Realms and while the Earth Goddess are a necessity to the production of food, there isn't a friendly priestess bopping around the neighborhood casting Create Food and Water in times of famine. And for all the magic in Glorantha, famine and devastation of the land is just as important a tactic of warfare here as it was in Peloponnesian Wars on Earth. There are those in Tunis that strongly believe, for all their Muslim sterness, that Romans poured a curse in addition to salt on the land that was Carthage. [Brief note, the Romans did not sow tons of sand into the soil of Carthage. They used a couple of tons and cast it on the ground in ritual condemnation. But curses, be they true or false, often take on lives of their own.]

As @Qizilbashwoman pointed out, we have Cruciform tablets and earlier evidence that food, cooking, and taxes were communal and related [meaning that paid taxes bought access to the food supply on an annual basis] in early Mesopotamia before improvements in agriculture and husbandry drew in enough of a surplus that it could be done 'for profit'. This is partly because there was enough of a surplus of some foodstuff that the supply outstripped the food's 'shelf life' allowed by preservation techniques. Even grain kept in sealed granaries can develop ergot if the temperatures changes develop a damp/dry cycle and the sources like the Aramaic translations of the Bible and Gilgamesh speak of 'old grain' in terms that it was rancid and not fit for consumption.

DAMN IT! I took the field and the spread on that one! 😁

So, as a reenactor I'm always on the lookout for interesting tidbits that might be of use to the RQ gaming audience.

This one is for you Lunar fans out there, a letter from Roman legionary on the Pannonian frontier to his family back home.

Enjoy!

2 hours ago, Agentorange said:

Carrying spares and some sort of fashioning kit would make perfect sense.

For reference, Ötzi the Iceman's  equipment included a flint shaper.

[link to museum list of Ötzi's equipment below]

https://www.iceman.it/en/equipment/

Replying to the OP here.

There are surgeons who insist on doing neurological surgery with knapped obsidian scalpels because they're the only blades both thin and sharp enough to split nerve tissue lengthwise.

So yeah, against bare flesh, clothing or soft leather [including hides and fur] knapped igneous stone is a pretty good bet. However, you'll probably be replacing the spearhead when you retrieve the spear out of the beast. Paleontologists and primitive bushcraft experts theorize that an average hunter likely carried several pre-made replacement blades for his weapons and probably raw nodes and a knapping kit as well. And I am purposely not quoting fiction here. 'Clan of the Cave Bear' is an entertaining read [and probably mandatory reading for Hsunchen players] but I'm getting my statements about the efficacy of primitive weaponry from the Universities of Colorado and Arizona.

Just as any living being 'knows' that being set on fire, or falling from a great height, or being submerged in water will kill it, any spirit [which are specifically defined in Glorantha as being alive and can be killed] will fear those substances or situations that are deadly to it. Call it what you want, 'instinctual fear' or whatever, but that knowledge will determine how that spirit /elemental will cope with that situation.

Yes, yes, I know there are some creatures that will ignore obvious danger and kill themselves [lemmings, etc.], but these are overwhelmingly the exceptions rather than the rule.