svensson

On 3/21/2023 at 12:20 PM, hipsterinspace said:

Initiates can get up to 4 points for free in the RQG rules.

IMGU, those points don't happen all at once. They happen at a 1 point per year rate up to the max of 4 free. My reasoning is this:

- Humakt only has one source for spell-teaching, the Swords that lead the cult. There is no priestly or shamanic support for these tasks. And spell-teaching is a major activity for Swords, but that's in addition to running a mercenary hall, leading the temple company in battle, and skill training.

- It requires the initiate to show a devotion to cult of Humakt, the Runic ideals of Death and Truth, and to the temple hierarchy.

So the only way that a starting PC would get all 4 free points of Bladesharp AND the 5 additional points of Spirit magic is for the PC to have initiated into Humakt at age 15-16... Humakt being their first cult. [IMG, I allow PCs to initiate into a second cult at age 20 if they sacrifice the point of POW - - they get 1 RP in the second cult, but no other training or magical benefits until they've adventure for a year]

12 minutes ago, David Scott said:

The question is not about honour, but honesty. Item three in the Humakti code is maintain strict truth and confidence with one another. A dishonest lay member will be okay until caught out... Note that CoP says many use this as an excuse to go on sprees just before the holy day.

Given that much of Humakt's reason for existence [and an awful lot of his magic] deals with his Truth Rune, 'honesty' and 'honor' are closely intertwined in a Humakti context.

Every deity in Glorantha knows when their worshipers of Initiate rank or better is being 'honest' with cult duties. If you go on a spending spree and buy unnecessary things the day before your cult tithe is due, it will adversely effect your relationship with the deity. There are many ways that this can play out in game. Perhaps it's a 'come to Orlanth' talking to by your local priest. Perhaps the PC is required to put in an extra week of cult service. Perhaps it's your next Rune spell casting becoming a one-use spell. Perhaps it's being briefly visited by the cult's spirit of reprisal. But if a PC makes a habit of being duplicitous with their cult they can expect to automatically fail any test of holiness to be promoted in the cult at the very minimum.

4 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

Disagree about this - secret murder isn’t killing someone where others can’t see it, it’s keeping it secret afterwards.

That said, having it public, using seconds, and so on, will help make things clearer.

That was my intention for the rule. The idea was to air grievances in the open and reduce feuds.

You're right to say that one of the aspects of secret murder is lying or not admitting your deeds, the holmgang rules were designed to recognize that Norse culture was a violent one, that some grievances could only be settled in blood, and that feuds and weregeld claims against a whole clan for the actions of one man were counter productive. By bringing those grievances out into the open and settling them in an open and witnessed manner, there was less likelihood of generational bad blood.

2 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

I don't get this... especially since most duels aren't to the death. There would be nothing wrong with a non-public duel.

There is always a possibility of death in a duel. There's ALWAYS a 1% chance you could max out on a critical success in an 'instant kill' location.

The duel being public serves two purposes: a] it 'clears the air' when two people have grievances for everyone involved [family, clan, cult, etc.] and b] 'secret murder' is one of the gravest and explosive charges that can be brought before a clan ring. It publically accuses someone of not being honorable, of being a backstabber and a cheat. By inference, it also accuses the clan and its leadership of being so dishonorable that it would tolerate a murderer among them. It isn't just a matter of honorable behavior, one has to be SEEN being honorable. It's not just how one acts, it's the public perception of how one acts.... just like nowadays, huh? 😉

The public declaration of a duel and the public fighting of a duel puts the matter right out where everyone can see that it was a fair fight and not a murder. What's more it ends the grievance; there can be no familial or clan claim of weregeld or feud. Both parties agreed to the duel and everyone has to accept the duel's result, and it's all completely above-board.

Mind you, you can run Humakt duels how you like. This is just the way that I see duels at my table. Some of this comes from my SCA fighting experience, some from my historical reading, and some comes from reading how other games handle the subject of dueling. This is just how I see the custom of dueling as working best for Storm worshipers.

I tend to run Humakt duels with a touch of the European code duello of the 17- and 1800s mixed with certain aspects of a Norse holmgang.

- Anyone may challenge a Humakti to a duel. The challenge must be public. To do otherwise is to plot secret murder.

- It is customary to have a neutral Humakti who is acceptable by both duelists as an observer/referee. They are in charge of enforcing the conditions of the duel. Their word is binding on all parties. In certain cases, someone other than a Humakt worshiper is allowable as the referee. Lhankor Mhy lawspeakers, Issaries heralds, and other such third parties have been used. These worthies must swear a public oath that they will abide by the law and spirit of the duel. This is often sealed by an Oath spell.

- The two duelists then set the conditions:

--- What constitutes victory? Proof of skill, first blood, submission, death, etc.

--- Is magic acceptable or  simply 'natural skill'? If magic is acceptable, what types? Are spirits allowed? etc.

--- What is the point of the duel? Honor? An apology? A piece of equipment or treasure? A specific right or privilege? Whatever this point is must be clearly stated and agreed upon by both duelists.

- Note: Humakti duels are ALWAYS settled by the sword. However, any type of sword may be matched against any other type.

- The time and place of the duel will then be set. The duel will be public; to do otherwise is to commit secret murder.

- Spectators may support either combatant by betting, words of encouragement, etc. However, once the match begins strict silence reigns. No spectator or witness may approach within arm's reach of a duelist until a victory condition is met.

- NO spectator, witness, or supporter may assist the duelists in any way, shape or form. Everything from loan of equipment to magic support is forbidden. Violators of this stricture can expect be challenged to a duel to the death on the spot.

- Once the victory conditions are met, the point of the duel [be it an apology, item, right/privilege, etc.] is exchanged. At this point the matter is concluded. No lawsuit for weregeld, no feud, no ongoing series of challenges, etc. is acceptable. What happens in the dueling circle stays in the dueling circle and results are final.

- Humakt NEVER resurrects a dead duelist.

Welcome to the board Enthar. You are definitely in the right place for your questions.

I get confused about Sorcery in RQG quite a bit myself, but @jajagappa and @Godlearner do a good job of clarifying things.

My big problem is very likely the same as yours: I was 'raised' on 'wizards' having zap spells... direct damage spells or direct debuff spells that effectively contribute to the party's kill count. But I have to remind myself that that's not how Sorcery works in RQG. Most spell definitions are broader than simple 'does 1d4 damage' Magic Missile spells. Sorcery is more variable, more malleable and take more imagination to describe how the caster wants to effect the target.

Some of you might remember some of us discussing notable women and queens recently.

I commented that Katherine Hepburn would always be the older, angrier Eleanor of Aquitaine but I didn't know which modern actress would be the younger Eleanor... the woman that won Henry II's heart.

Well, a youtube video came across my feed that has taken images of Eleanor from period and attempted to photoshop what she might have looked like in life.

Take a look. Some of you might find this interesting.

[link to youtube video]

I think it's safe to assume that not everyone in Healer Valley was a healer by religion or trade [CA cultists or physicians], but it is a brutal act.

I don't know why BG is supposed to have done this, but it does fit with the early portrayal of her being an Earth cultist's Zorak Zoran /Storm Bull archetype of a berzerking avenger.

5 hours ago, Agentorange said:

Yeah, but how and why does slaughtering a valley full of healers fit in with all that ?

Well, not everything about the Earth is bountiful, beneficial, and fertile. Sometimes the Earth must be renewed in blood. This belief was held as true and sacred from ancient Mesopotamia all the way up until 1800's in Europe, and is still held to be true by covens of Wicca and Pagan/Heathen alt-religion advocates today. It was even passively permitted by the Catholic church in that most village-level priests would turn a blind eye to solstice and equinox ceremonies held out in the fields and woods.

For a real-world example, did you know that some of best and worst soil in France is along the trench lines of WWI? Some areas are MORE fertile and verdant than they were before the war because of the, well, 'nutrients' of millions of dead men and animals. But some regions are still poisoned by the peroxide and ammonia propellants used by artillery shells... not gas shelling, but the explosives used to make standard artillery shells. And that hasn't 'washed away' in 100 years.

Given Greg's inspirations for Glorantha, it's clear that that custom is a truism in Glorantha as well.

I don't know the specific instance where BG worshipers 'massacred a valley full of healers', so I can't comment directly to your question. But there are good 'Stafford-logic' reasons both for and against it happening.

9 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

Oi! I didn’t mean to cause so much kerfuffle.

I was prompted by just having picked up a book on ancient political thought — which links political organisation and cult — and by recent emphasis by Jeff on the non-Chaotic nature of the Seven Mothers: communing with Our Lady of Chaos reserved for illuminates who have already climbed the greasy pole (even back to Gods of Glorantha), but yes, the Lunar Way is more capacious.

But I did note instability — because: White Moon cult (the Gully Foyles/Merry Pranksters of Lunar religion?) and presumably other Lunar splinter groups; upcoming Utuma via Shadow — and the chew and spit out nature of my comments.

Don't worry, MFB.

We're just digressing from the segue into the interruption of missing the point.

Again.

😁

12 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Roy Rogers

T-t-t-Trigger.

Of Course.

😁

BG is the protector and avenger of all the Earth goddesses, the aspect of Feminine Vengeance.

She is the Fierce Protector, the Bloody Avenger, the Stalwart Guard, the Constant Threat. She protects all aspects of the Earth from violation from any source, and when Earth is violated or disrespected, there is no place in all the Planes that she will not go to gain the justice of Vengeance.

Among the mortals of the Mundane Plane, she is the dark, bloody counterpoint of the windy heroes of Orlanth/Vinga or the pale, cold virgins of Yelorna, and the reminder that 'honor' is not always kept with noble and proud deeds worthy of fame -- that oftentimes honor is also served by grim, bloody work done in the dark.

36 minutes ago, metcalph said:

They can obtain spirit magics and training.

I very much doubt this.  Lunar converts are privileged, not cattle.

 

IIRC, magical and skill training are the preserves of initiates unless the lay worshiper is willing to pay retail rates.

In the Empire there are numerous ways to end up a slave, initiate or not, Lunar citizen or not. And given the percentage of Illuminates among Lunar Sorcerers, there isn't a whole lot in the way of moral qualms about using a slave, ANY slave, as a Tap puppet.

Furthermore, I submit to you that a clan chief is more familiar with and more about the clan members than any member of the Lunar bureaucracy 'cares' for any citizen at all.

@Joerg

But lay worshipers do not devote POW or gain benefits. Lay Worshipers are a zero-sum participant, really

And while the Lunar Way is open to everyone, there is almost no guard rail or safety net for those same people to find the very negative aspects of the Lunar Way. A lot of converts find their way into become Tap monkeys for Lunar Sorcery, get fed to the Crimson Bat, find themselves enslaved, or fed into the arenas to die for the entertainment of their 'betters'.

The Lunar Way offers the possibility of more enlightenment, but at a very considerable price. This nonsensical theme of 'the Lunar Way is the better way' and Sedenya apologists is cute and all, but Argrath ends up destroying the Red Moon and everything she built.

5 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Societal rules differ and we all have our own standards of what is acceptable.I am the judge what is acceptable in my games and generally resent outside body to set the standard.

Generally I do too, I'm not trying for censorship here, I'm thinking more of courtesy and self-restraint.

For the record, I'm not telling you what you can do in your game. You're gonna do what you're gonna do, and that's completely fine. I'm not trying to impose my wishes on anyone, I'm just airing my concerns.

2 hours ago, Godlearner said:

I am all for Gratuitous nudity of all types.

I'm of two minds about it.

On the one hand, the grown up in me doesn't see anything wrong with nudity in the contexts that RGQ has been showing it... Usually in religious observances, usually with height/weight appropriate women, usually having to do with fertility and motherhood. And those depictions are appropriate for the Bronze Age theme of the game. And God knows it's an improvement over bimbo-wear of the past.

On the other, I'm trying to teach my 12 year old grand-niece that she doesn't have to be pretty to succeed, that she doesn't have to use her gender/sexuality to manipulate people, and that she is a wonderful whole person, not just an appearance.

RQG has done a pretty good job, but not a great job, at portraying women as full participants in society... equal to men in every single way... but the tropes are still there. Boob armor, for example. It's there because it's expected to be there. But I've known women in the SCA who fought with 'boob plate' of stainless steel and EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. of them said it was a huge mistake. Somebody swatting you upside the mammaries hurts like all get out. So not only does the art over-sexualize the female warrior, it's tactically wrong as well!

I'm not trying to be prudish or wag my finger at anyone here. If my table was full of adult women, this would be less of an issue. But we, all of us, are trying to make RQ good for everyone, from tween to grognard, and I honestly think this needs to be looked at.

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I respectfully disagree.  The Extension spell does say specifically otherwise: "any temporal Rune spell".  Any means any.  Nor does it say "with the same rune and rune points as the spell you are extending".

Arguably, you may have to make two rolls against different runes to succeed.  We haven't bothered with that level of detail.

What's more Extension is a Magic [R] Rune spell. It aligns with ANY other Rune for purposes of compatibility.

Answering the OP,

I don't see why not. We have the example in RQ3's 'River of Cradles' book of the Zola Fel cult River Horse and Cleansed One subcults /spirit cults. I grant you that RQ3 is not RQG and many mechanics have changed significantly, but I really can't think of an RQ rules mechanic or a 'Stafford-esque' Glorantha lore reason why magic from a divine source cannot augment magic from a directly related spirit cult.

Add [into RQ or Glorantha as you please]

- Mounts /Mounted Combat

- Dragonewts

- Illumination

- Lunar

- Morocanth

- Shield Parry

- Spirit Cults

- Two-Weapon-Fighting

- Beast Riders

- Chaos

- Ships /Ship Combat

Another couple of photos from North Carolina in locations where 'Last of the Mohicans' was filmed.

1. Hickory Nut Falls

2. Pisgah Falls

I think we should distinguish between routine HeroQuests and... well, 'special' HeroQuests [for lack of a better term]

A routine HeroQuest is one that travels time-worn paths, carefully exploring the God-Time deeds of a God in a by-rote fashion. These include initiations, Sacred Time worship, and Holy Day worship. There is minimal interaction with the God Plane and many worshiper experiences are induced by group ecstasy, repetitious movement, consumed substances, and cultural pressure or expectations.

A 'special' HeroQuest is one where the worshiper explores the underpinnings of the myths to find the cosmological truths that underlay the doctrinal beliefs. In these HQs there are no well-worn paths or a large body of doctrine that can be learned by rote. The quester must find their own way to understanding their god's God-Time deeds and it is in that deeper understanding that new powers arise.

If HeroQuesting was a school exam, a routine HQ is multiple-choice and a special HQ is an essay question.

4 hours ago, Ironwall said:

I'm not going to lie I usually find the bolo lizard floggings to be entertaining and informative 

😁

The enlisted man in me almost sure there is something, um, 'rude' in there somewhere.....

Are we flogging the dead bolo lizard again? Some more? Still?

Much of this speculation will be revealed by this time next year, and @Jeff or Chaosium isn't going directly answer cosmological questions. They have a line of 10 books to sell us and they're not interested in spoiling the product releases.

All our questions will start getting answers come summer, so hold your Water till Fire Season, my merrie bande of trollkin.

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Thanks all.

I always thought Sartar was more hilly/mountainous, and significantly greener.

Sartar has a wide range of terrain. Generally speaking it is greener and more verdant in the West and drier and more prairie-like the farther East you go. And, of course, it is colder in the North and hotter and muggier in the South.

I have a folio of photos for my Atlantis game that may be of interest for you....

The photos are of

1. Lycian Rock Tombs

2. Wells Cathedral Chapter House

3. Artwork of Atlantis Megopolis by RE Pinder

4. Two frames from the sunken city of Heracleion