mfbrandi

I confess to being a little confused. To my simple-minded way of seeing it: an avatar is a deity descended into the mundane (mortal) world — direction = down; a hero is a mortal trying to break into the big leagues, the divine world — intended direction = up. So if we go for the whole prayer-powered gods thing, wouldn’t Jar-eel — considered as an avatar of the RG — have access to all the sacrificed power that had filtered up to the pinnacle of the Lunar religion even without her own cult? (And the RG have access to all power directed at Jar-eel, because they are the same entity?) Of course, as direct worship of the RG, any Jar-eel cult might have fewer overheads than, say, the 7M — fewer intermediaries to pay out in the divine MLM scheme. Of course, if Jar-eel is just a mortal indulging in a bit of RG cosplay, things might be different. The prayer-powered gods thing always makes me queasy. Here are two views of fantasy religion (there will be others and better, and no, I don’t mean these as digs at RW religion): our fantasy religionists are coming to terms with the powers in the world, the sublime — learning to live with the terrifying machinery of the world which will grind on in the same way, worship or no worship; without prayer (or sacrifice), the gods are zeroes — powerless — but the mortals empower a bunch of destructive idiots who have jettisoned any ability they might once have had to change and grow. The latter is uncomfortably like worshipping the storms of global warming or the latest orange-skinned demagogue to have puffed itself up on the adulation of the public. Of course, it also dangles the promise of the American dream (or the dream of the magus): play your cards right and you can be god. Romantics vs. narcissists?

Although we can theorise about illumination, perhaps we don’t need much intellect just to be illuminated: Illumination conveys much the same information present in the fragment from Salonar Tamaskil’s book, but teaches by emotional experience rather than intellectual argument. — Cults of Terror (Classic PDF, p. 86) So maybe the Bat didn’t need an INT boost to be illuminated (if it was). I don’t think we have any problem with “unintelligent” Chaos creatures being tormented by their (supposed) nature, so maybe no surprise if they can get some relief from that torment, too. Just how dumb is animal intelligence, anyway? Jay? Octopus? Orca? Sea lion? OK, the Bat can’t read Sanskrit, but neither can I. As for the mind link, I am imagining Spock–Sedenya engaged in Bat-whispering and the Bat each unsure whether she is a goddess dreaming she is a Chaos monster dreaming she is a hummingbird, or a hummingbird dreaming she is a Chaos monster dreaming she is a goddess, or a lump of rock dreaming she is a pterosaur dreaming she is a bat dreaming she is a moth dreaming … Perhaps neither of them has been quite sure at any time since.

Surely the point is neither the nature of the Bat nor the senses of the Bull (Urox is as befuddled or as sharp as ever), but the change in Oddi after his getting blown out. He is still coming to terms with his new perception of the world, and at this point nothing makes sense to him. We can worry in the other place about whether his perceptions were more reliable before or after his extinguishment (as clearly the mainstream view is that Chaos is “a thing” even if this was sometimes undercut in the past). Even if we are supposed to think that BAU will re-assert itself soon enough, there is a period of adjustment, right? Personally, I don’t mind the idea of illuminated animals who post-illumination don’t spook at imagined Chaos, but who knows?

I didn’t say that it did. If Paulis is right to say that the difference resides not in existence — a suggestion I claim is fun even if it is not canon — and this applies to the Chaos–not Chaos distinction, then even the the great god Urox himself cannot detect the taint of Chaos. (It is a non-hole in existence for a reason. There is nothing to detect. It is a trick of our minds, not a part of the furniture of the world.) A continued tight connection to the god won’t help — the SB worshipper couldn’t detect Chaos before illumination and still cannot after illumination. No change. Of course any fool can detect pus, slime, tentacles, and a rampaging army of broo, but that is not the supposed USP of the Bullies, is it? And you can still kill broo (even fanatically), but there is no permission to do so granted by some Chaos–not Chaos distinction — as that turned out to be a delusion brought about by a lack of self-understanding. But I would say that, at least since I fell into Getafix’s other cauldron as a small child. Strange doors never close again. 😉

I think this is an excellent question, and my answer is in the spirit of MGF (not the elucidation something profound or the articulation of canon … whatever that is). My King, it is said there is a dim and a bright side to all of existence, and that only those who are Illumined see that the difference resides not in existence but in the way we choose to see it. — Cults of Terror (Classic PDF, p. 85) Paulis Longvale is not an illuminate, but he is right: there really is no difference between the glass half full and the glass half empty, the duck picture and the rabbit picture. “Aspect perception” is — we might say — a projection: now it seems to represent a duck, now a rabbit, but crucially we see that the picture has not changed (that no line has moved or shifted colour). Of course, this has consequences: an illuminated Storm Bull cannot detect Chaos, but neither can a “benighted” Storm Bull. No one can check up on the “results” of a Storm Bull’s sense chaos: there is nothing for them to detect — they are just having one of their headaches. There are no facts about whether something is Chaotic or not. If I see you as Chaotic, that is just an attitude I take toward you. “It’s me, not you.” The illuminate is someone who has grasped this, and many can flip aspects at will. Of course, some illuminates are psychotic and will happily persecute people for “imagined sins”, but they cannot detect the sinners — they just get angry for what they know in their moments of lucidity is no real reason, and they leave “a trail of cinders across the continent.” We are all Chaotic. We are none of us Chaotic. Duck. Rabbit. No difference. The universe cannot argue us into evaluating it one way rather than another — pure reason will not motivate us — and those who cannot deal with this may build or summon devils, sprout tentacles, or start “anti-Chaos” pogroms. It is not enough to tear away the veil, one must be at peace with the world seen aright. The world cannot hand us morality on a plate, and there is no point taking it out on ourselves or others. Leave the tantrums to the terrible twos.

I would hope that in the absence of the second cousin’s wife, the quiet person who lives at the edge of the village and tries to avoid clan politics (as the continuation of war by other means) would pipe up at this point. “Surely all men are are sisters and every mortal a cousin. Please, think again.” But maybe they were lynched years ago as a likely Chaotic/illuminate/closet White Moonie. A judgement from the local Orlanthi jurist that an action is not Chaotic is not a “get out of sin free” card. There are other transgressions than Chaos.

This is what the ogre’s lawyer said: My client cannot eat vegetables or beasts, because they cannot talk and so cannot consent. My client’s only resort was to eat people. Here are the consent forms. Certainly no duress was involved. Yes, my client ate Aldryami and Voralans, too. One must have a balanced diet. So, you see, My Lady, ogres are the only true vegans. Uzko don’t get all this grief and they eat rocks. When did a rock ever sign a consent form?

I guess it is tricky being a lunar vegan. Keep well away from the maize tortillas.

So you have to remember to turn around and look behind you, to take off your backpack and look at it, and so on? Hmm … I take it the thing sought doesn’t really glow. It is more like a head-up display or AR headset — the effect is “painted on” at the caster’s end. This is just my guess, of course.

Perhaps like a tribble Darkness was born pregnant. Perhaps it is the matryoshka doll which contained all the other elements — unveiled sequentially but not created so. Perhaps the elements remain nested one within the other, and Nakala remains surrounded by … But we do not name it lest it manifest!

[I came here by way of the Thomas Covenant thread, so it is necrotic however one looks at it, but …] To survive [being surrounded by pain-inducing raw Chaos] the Atomic Explorers severed every major nerve trunk in their body. Of course, they were paralysed, so they replaced the nerve centres … with powered crystals embedded in their bodies to control their bodies. But they can feel no pain, so they had to constantly check to make sure they weren’t injured, like a leper. — Sandy Petersen, More Forgotten Secrets of Glorantha (pp. 21–22) He stamped across the room by judgment, not by sight. When he saw the table hit the floor, and could tell by the expression on Luci’s face that the table must have made a loud crash, he looked down to see if his leg were broken. It was not. Scanner to the core, he had to scan himself. — Cordwainer Smith, Scanners Live in Vain Scanners are space pilots; the rigours of their job in “the pain of space” entail the functional loss of the sensory region of their brains, with an effect on their behaviour that resembles severe autism. The story deals with their tortured lives and with the end of the form of space travel necessitating the contortions — John Clute, SFE: Cordwainer Smith So our ancient astronauts are — in Sandy’s telling, anyway — just a lift from Linebarger, right? Well, the old cordwangler seems like the right kind of spectre to haunt Glorantha.

Or perhaps the permanent temptation is to run screaming straight for Dorastor, collapse with a migraine on arrival, and die of a nosebleed. Drunken and bad tempered? Just trying to dull their Chaos sense and pricking conscience. 🎶 It’s like a radio you can’t switch off 🎶 🎶 There’s no way to get peace of mind 🎶

I like this. The ogres eat people. Waha’s people eat “beasts” but claim it is OK because they magically unpersoned them with a totally fair and above-board lottery.

This unbelief … thoroughly exposes the artifact of the normal fantasy Secondary World as a stage-set for the deeds of protagonists whose every act is deeply patriotic, deeply land- and folk-affirming … The land itself is under threat from Lord Foul, a Dark Lord whose only escape from the Bondage of being intrinsic to the land is to dissolve it. He is in a way himself a leper, longing to dissolve his body, and in this sense is Covenant’s true dark Shadow. — John Clute, Encyclopedia of Fantasy Leprosy has a low pathogenicity, and 95% of people who contract M. leprae do not develop the disease … M. leprae and M. lepromatosis lack the genes that are necessary for independent growth … [They] are obligate intracellular pathogens, and cannot be grown (cultured) in the laboratory. — Wikipedia: Leprosy Clute’s perspective might almost be that of one of Ralzakark’s sword broos, and perhaps Mycobacterium leprae — used carefully — will do as an occasional metaphor for Chaos: the bacterium ≠ the disease; the bacterium is mostly harmless but can cause horrific damage; it needs hosts (us) to grow. But metaphors are false — “Chaos is M. leprae” — and not to be taken for science or the findings of the ethics committee! The Glorantha setting seems to have all the ingredients for a profound skepticism about the land and its heroes, but I get the feeling (I may be wrong) that that is a cake its chefs don’t want to bake.

Well, some shops may claim to have an approximate date — but they are probably just cynically trying to get your “pre-order”. My guess is that the shops are expecting the re-covered Glorantha Sourcebook first (as I have seen a couple showing the art for that but a placeholder for The Lunar Way). Just think of it as a pint of Guinness.

If and unite in the Dragon’s Eye , what of and ? Perhaps it is as simple as the juggler — the magician — keeping all her non-existent balls in the air. The mountebank who displays the suits of the deck: swords = (both and have been the two of swords) batons = (or to keep it in the powers) cups = coins =

This is the doctrine of the once and future moon, right? And perhaps the answer to Humakt–Eurmal nihilism: NOT = = = = Ø BUT [START] = Potential = --> = Actual --> [START] … This could be an echo of the Humakt–Eurmal version of the Bewlay Brothers, or it could be a dig at the gods who cling to immortality: they are writing themselves out of reality by becoming nirguna, one with the Void they profess to disdain. In contrast, the Red Goddess is not immortal but serially mortal in a loop which may or may not be interruptible, of the world and in it. squaring the circle of and ?

A side is a rune maxed out, so linking Eurmal and Humakt (the non-storm storm gods) in this way is saying that illumination abolishes the apparent distance between and — as between the related runes of and . Without illusion there is nothing, but illusion itself is nothing. Rip away the insubstantial veil to reveal that there is no substance, only the void. Truth is eternal because there is nothing to change. Every death is the work of Humakt but no death changes anything for (per Ms. Peacock) nothing ever was, anyway. Meanwhile Orlanth is whistling in the dark to keep the hill barbarians’ spirits up in the face of the bitter laughter of Humakt and Eurmal — “Master what? Change what? You cannot scramble out of a pit with no sides.” 😉

Ah but Orlanth is to the god of fluid dynamics as Marx is to the philosophers: one thinks that the point is to take control, the other that the point is to understand. One is a leaf blower, the other a reed in the wind. Orlanth is more Mussolini than stoic. is the “w” in “will” and the silent “w” in “anchor” (refusing to drift with the current). We can all see the resemblance:

Should have known it was doomed — as every schoolgirl knows, Truth and Storm never meet (according to Jörg’s handy Rune Index to CoRQ Prosopaedia and simple observations of the Big O). If you switch to a tetrahedron (Beast rune) with edges for the runes, poor old Humakt doesn’t fit at any vertex as he only has two runes. You could have faces for runes and fit him in the middle of the edge between Death and Truth. Add a face for Mastery to make up the four and Orlanth would go in the middle of the edge between Storm and Mastery (safely removed from Death and Truth), perhaps. But as @Joerg noted, it is a lie that Orlanth has nothing to do with Death, as befits his relationship with Truth. 😉 But as Mallia taught us long ago, runes are not intrinsic to gods, they belong to worshippers and religions.

Because it didn’t really belong in RQG Humakti double damage, as it is about plotting RuneSpace … I like it, but I am not sure how to read it. A two dimensional plot of how many dimensions? At first I thought that each side of the triangle represented a maxed-out rune (1) and that as one travelled toward the opposite vertex the value dropped to a minimum (0). That seems to work for Death (Orlanth = 0, Humakt = 1, Storm Bull = 1) and Storm (Orlanth = 1, Humakt = 0, Storm Bull = 1), but then what is going on with the third side, as Honour (being bound or compliant) and Mastery (doing the binding or being free) would normally be thought of as opposites, not two ways of saying the same thing? I suppose we could see Urox as maximally distant from self-control, but are Humakt and Orlanth equal in that? The line from Humakt to Storm Bull cannot be an “inverse death” axis, unless one wants Orlanth to have a higher Death score than Storm Bull — there is a case for that (I guess) but not based on runic associations. Obviously, we could try to give each deity a score in each rune and then measure their distances from each other in a multi-dimensional space, but then the question would be whether each rune gets an equal “rating” (i.e. each rune’s maximum is the same distance from the origin along its axis as every other is along its — a nominal 1) or whether “high” scores in some runes (e.g. Chaos goes up to 11) immediately position those with a score in it way away from most gods. So, you know, say more … 😉 Meanwhile, I will try relabelling the triangle in an attempt to clarify it. (I have an idea — it may not work!) —————————————————— Oops! Just seen Jörg’s edit, so at least some of what is above is wrong.

Hermit = “Paul” Storm Bull = “Fremen jihadi” Issaries = “John the Baptist” Thunderous & Heler => as a theme I have seen a baboon city in the wastes, its fountains filled with swimming horses. The morokanth seem to be herding … hyænas. A wave of green is sweeping over the land!

We know they have a tattoo.

Presumably, this LM has a family solely for the purpose of being able to dictate findings into the library post mortem. I wouldn’t want to be one of the kids. Has no one mastered summoning non-ancestors? That sounds like a worthwhile research programme, right? To get the stories of the childless and those whose lines have been expunged, doesn’t that sound like the LM way? Let nothing be lost!

If dead stars are dark stars or black holes, what does this tell us about the relationship between Yelm and Kajabor (and Jerry Garcia) — and what was the trolls’ real beef with the Sun underground? (Of course, you may just have meant that “negatives” of the living stars could be seen from Hell.)