metcalph

6 hours ago, Gallowglass said:

 I think the Errinoru elves should probably also get a shoutout, but I don’t think they have ever fought a foreign army before.

Errinoru fought the God Learners at the Invasion of the Talking Beach (which is kinda curious for its dating) and later destroyed four cities on the Pamaltelan coast.  His modern day successors  have the upper hand against Flanch (who should count as foreign).

22 minutes ago, Gallowglass said:

Jeff recently posted this on Facebook, and someone asked if any armies in Pamaltela could stand up to these big scary Genertelan examples. I've also been wondering if there are any human armies on the wider Lozenge, or among the Elder Races that merit the same fear and respect. I finally found time to re-read relevant bits of the Guide, and I have decided that NO, Jeff's examples are indeed the mightiest of the mighty, with maybe one exception.

 

In Pamaltela, I would say the armed forces of Golden Kareeshtu are supreme.  However that largely depends on their yachts and ability to hold and resupply cities by sea.  I doubt they are capable of mustering a professional army and keep it in the field for an extended period of time.  Behind them would be the Arbennan and the Kresh.  Afadjann extends its power through Darleester rather than any major operations and Nikosdros is keeping quiet for the time being.

In the East are the navies of Haragala and Hanfarador.  Both are coming under serious pressure from the Andins.

8 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

Based on events in my campaign's Glorantha I anticipate that Great Sister will enact the Hon-Eel rites on Argenteus in Fire or early Earth of 1628, not long after my campaign's equivalent of the Battle of Heroes takes place on Kodros Isle.  Where would be the sensible place to perform the sacrifice?  If Great Sister is going to stuff Argenteus into a wicker man or let his blood over the growing crops or what have you, what's the most resonant sacred site in the Heartlands (or beyond) for that job?

There's always the chance it wasn't the Great Sister's urging.  Argenteus might just have been drunk enough and whined why he couldn't be the bad guy for once.  

A ritual involving a sacrifice of a king does take place in Carantes (cf the Red King story in the Entekosiad) but it isn't a Corn Rite.

Honeel started her career with the slaughter of the Horse Nomad rulers of Doblian City.  Again not a corn ritual.  

The traditional for the murder of the Emperor would be the Footstool (after Murharzarm).  

Other places might be Furthest (with HonEel did in Pyjeemsaab) and Oraya (where the last Corn Priestesses were sent in a crackdown) but both those places are dicy militarily speaking.

5 hours ago, dumuzid said:

So the Mask of the Red Emperor called Argenteus pays for the several debacles the Lunar Empire faces in the later 1620s with his life.  Per this post on the Well of Daliath, he's succeeded by 'Kazkurtum.'  I have some dim understanding that this is the new Red Emperor installed by Great Sister after sacrificing Argenteus in the Hon-Eel Rites, and that he's regarded as 'false' or 'artificial' after his reign.  I'm guessing he wasn't called Kazkurtum while he was in office, given the connotations of the name.  The only direct reference to this fellow that I know of is on page 750 of the Guide to Glorantha, where Ethilrist describes him as "the poor sacrifice Jar-eel and Great Sister had raised to power."

I think this is Renovus rather than Kazkurtum.  He's not a Red Emperor as such (ie is not of One Substance with Moonson) but a legitimate Emperor of Dara Happa.  Another reference to him is the TakenEgi Stelae (erected by Invictus, I think) "I was enthroned in the 13th year of the 8th Wane, after the Rebel Gods killed the Usurper whom my mother and sister had given dominion of Glamour" who is named in King of Sartar as Phargentes.  

Question:  how bad is the relation between Phargentes Invictus and JarEel if she makes Someone Else the Emperor rather than her son?  Perhaps he had too much of his father in him?  I'm inclined to see a Hamlet scenario with Brian Cox's Logan Roy as the Emperor's Cousin (an obscure personage mentioned in a Gregly text published in Tales #8) if that helps.  

Basically the magics of the dragonewts (and perhaps Wyrms) as most recently seen on the Bestiary.  Humans will probably use rune points to cast them as they are not dragonewts.  Their dragon magic will be inferior because of this (no casting on SR 1, limited by rune pool etc).  I think there are alternate paths based on Shamanism (ie Daruda) and Sorcery but I'm already getting too speculative as is. 

On the subject of Shaman Sorcerers, RQ3's Trollpak said that Mistress Race Trolls could be Shaman, Sorcerer, Priestess or any combination thereof.  I suspect it's a case of who is going to say they can't?

1 hour ago, Darius West said:

I am surprised no God Learners made the cut.  Surely Gloranthan history's munchkins par excellence must have had some superheroes?  I mean, they are all dead now, I assume, but still...  If Errinoru almost makes the cut and he's dead...

God Learners achieved their magics through powerful wizards rather than heroes.  Any aspiring superheroes probably had Hrestoli or Arkati sympathies which would have made them targets for eradication.  If they didn't have such sympathies, the Wizards would have still gone after them. 

3 minutes ago, Evilroddy said:

Yeah, but the idea of people being the equivalent age of 12 years old who are fighting and making families is a bit off-putting to me. Also the idea that people who are the equivalent of terrestrial 17 year olds having skills at such high levels is a bit odd too. An accelerated rate of aging should not accelerate the rate of learning and skill uptake.

15 year old gloranthans are 15 years old in earth years, not 12 years.  

50 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The illustration I believe you're thinking of is by Jan Pospisil and is the one set at Pimper's Block and appears in at least 13th Age Glorantha p.354. But it doesn't have the description there, and I know that is recorded somewhere. It is post-Argrath conquest of Pavis, so cannot be in either the Guide or older HeroQuest material.

Found the full art direction in Martin Helsdon's Armies and Enemies of Dragon Pass p. 115 (description p.114), but does not name the captive. "Followers of Argrath White Bull have brought a high-status Lunar captive from New Pavis to the oasis of Pimper’s Block. This is a thriving slave market on the border between Dragon Pass and Prax... A Bison Tribe woman of the Storm Bull cult and member of the Bullocks War Society contemptuously guards a captive..."

I feel certain that Jotoran is the Lunar captive, but cannot find further reference.

Try HeroQuest Glorantha p100-101.  

Minutes, seconds, hours, days and years are the same as on earth.  Gloranthans just age slightly faster than us.

46 minutes ago, DrGoth said:

Serious question - when will the prosopaedia be available for purchase online?

When the book becomes available for purchase at chaosium.com - which has been said to be in July.

6 minutes ago, HreshtIronBorne said:

On the note of Agimori Shaman, could an ancestor worshipping Agimori get magic from Lodril through Ancestor Worship? 

IMO yes but only from the ancestral version of Lodril that they worship, not the Dara Happan version for instance.

3 hours ago, Harry the Dirty Dog said:

Arkat, Harrek and Jar-Eel I can understand.  Androgeus, I don't know enough about.  I'm not particularly up to date on Yanafal Tarnils outside of the basics so I don't get what raises him to Superhero status above the other Six Mothers.

It's just that he's been called Superhero in the Redline History (early version).  The other five Mothers were more into becoming Gods than Heroes.  

3 hours ago, Harry the Dirty Dog said:

My other is why other entities in Glorantha haven't made the list.  What makes those five so special? 

At a rough guess, a critical concentration of heroic powers.  Arkat, Harrek and JarEel were all forged in epic conflicts that makes clashes between the Red Emperor and Sheng Seleris, say, seem like mere child's play.

36 minutes ago, Kloster said:

IIRC, in addition, Humakt has no problem with Yanafal,

Pretty sure Humakt would be hostile to Yanafal what with the business of being kerb-stomped by his devoted warriors at the Battle of the Four Arrows of Light.

36 minutes ago, Kloster said:

Etyries is associated with Issaries and there is not too much problem between Irripi Ontor and Lhankor Mhy.

I think any relationship between Irrippi and Lhankor are best explained by Sayre's Law ("Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low.")

2 hours ago, Harry the Dirty Dog said:

Now think of the consequences if Vasana used Air or Death.  Or anything that doesn't exist in the Green Age.  Anyone read Ray Bradbury's "A Sound of Thunder"?

I really don't think that changes in the Green Age result in universal changes.  At the most they should be confined to the Heroquester.  There's a visit to the Green Age in the Eleven Lights which doesn't mention the extreme reactions you suggest.

8 hours ago, soltakss said:

In fact, the Golden Age begins with the creation of Aether Primolt, the First Emperor. The Green Age is the stuff that happened "before" that.

 

I think the Golden Age begins with Yelm.  Even in the Yelmic Cosmology (Glorious ReAscent), the First Era is the Timeless Period of the One while Yelm rules the Second Era.  There's no intermediate reign of Aether Primolt who is instead one of the Glorantay.  

41 minutes ago, radmonger said:

One thing I am not clear on is whether you can have a shrine to the seven mothers collectively, or if they are only unified at the temple level. Isn't a 7m temple really just a collection of shrines to mutually associated deities, with the typical central god left out?

I imagine unspecialized shrines (ie to the Seven Mothers as a whole) and specialized shrines (ie a single Seven Mother is so honored) exist.  Unspecialized shrines would teach Reflection, while specialized shrines would teach Regrow Limb (Deezola), Madness (Jakaleel) and Mindblast (Irrippi Ontor).  Yanafal's Truesword would be awesome but it's only available to Chief Priests and higher so wouldn't be taught at a shrine.     

41 minutes ago, radmonger said:

iirc, Etyries is accepted as both a subcult of Issaries, and one of the seven mothers.

She's an associate of the Seven Mothers, not one of them.  

6 hours ago, Dragon said:

Got you. You stated your world's reasoning that 100% of sorcerers could not be summoned. I pointed out the 100% prohibition contradicted Well of Daliath. Then you agreed that it was somewhat possible by stating 'can, not will'. 

Seriously?  I was offering my opinion (the posts starts "I think...") and did not say 100%.  This isn't the place for hostile nitpicks as the following post makes clear:

6 hours ago, Dragon said:

Then you state a new reason why your Glorantha varies:

Err.  I offered an in-gloranthan reason as to how the Malkioni might explain this difference.  That's allowed to be different from the real truth and not a sign of inconsistency,.

6 hours ago, Dragon said:

Got it. In your Glorantha, you will not allow shaman to summon sorcerers using Summon Specific Ancestor, ever. You have defended your particular Glorantha quite well. I was merely pointing out to others who read this thread that there are reasonably canon reasons that it is possible.

You are quite free to state your own opinion without using the platform of adverse commentary of another person's post.

45 minutes ago, Dragon said:

But The Well of Daliath states under Malkion: "The essence of his teaching is that the universe is not soulless for those who practice sorcery, and that they can enter the realm of Solace after death." So that sense of individuality does not prevent them from entering Solace in Malkionism.

Can, not will.  

45 minutes ago, Dragon said:

Random ancestors would be wildly unlikely to have been Zzaburi. But Malkion's statement wouldn't explain why Malkioni Zzaburi ancestors contacted by Summon Specific Ancestor would not have sorcery if the shaman knew one's name.  Unless of course in your Glorantha, Malkion was lying about Solace.

IMO the Shaman blame Zzabur for not being able to summon Zzaburi Ancestors.  Nothing to do with Malkion at all

2 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

Their entire way of life is structured around not losing that connection, that’s why they are the Pure Horse, why they live in the highly restrictive way that they do. They would not know the mysteries of Kargzant, they would have no need to know them, they have never worshiped him. As such, that’s why I would think the Pol-Joni probably had Elmal prior to Monrogh and maybe the Praxian Sun Daughter tradition, which leads me to:

Again this is too dogmatic.  Every culture has misfits and people who screw up, with the taboos being so restrictive and all that, so it's simply not plausible to say "nope, the Grazers never fall afoul of their taboos".  Even King of Sartar has hints of the process when it talks about the Wanderers among the Grazers leaving the tribe p91 and p93.  Now since the Grazers explicitly worship Yu-Kargzant, the question then is what do they think about plain Kargzant?  Having him as the patron of the impure (who would still be a tiny minority) makes loads of sense to me.

2 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

They used to call Yelmalio Sun Daughter, one of the more important spirits of Prax and part of their Sky Gazers tradition.

Can I trouble you for a source on that?   Just getting a bit annoyed that you make all these statements and don't bother to support them,.

2 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

Their Yelmalio cult is focused on riding rather than pike phalanxes, and is primarily among Imapala tribe (and the other pygmies of the Ostrich riders) and to a lesser degree within the Sable tribe.

Yelmalio doesn't have any special association with riding Eiritha beasts than he does with Phalanx fighting.  The Praxians would worship him not because he's a good rider (or even fighter) but because he's an excellent survivor.  I daresay he's popular among the Impala because everybody else is bigger than them.

3 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

Nonetheless, they are not Pure Horse or Pentan, they are culturally Orlanthi.

They are culturally diverse as King of Sartar describes.

3 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

If you look at their demographics, they have a minor temple to Yelmalio, but I’d imagine that would be either the Praxian version or their post-revelation Elmali, not the Pentan Kargzant who the Pure Horse Tribe have no connection to.

Religion isn't demographics.  And why so dogmatic about the Pure Horse not having any connection to Kargzant?  He would be an ideal god for those Grazers who have lost their connection with Yu-Kargzant but still struggle to for the light.  There is no Praxian version of Yelmalio save that worshipped in Sun County.  

2 minutes ago, hipsterinspace said:

They aren’t ex-grazers. Their founder was an Orlanthi from the Blue Jay Clan of the Dundealos tribe, they are Heortlings, not Grazers or Pentans.

Their founder was from the Dundealos but he acquired many survivors from the Pure Horse Tribe (KoS p98 and p166) after the Battle of Alavan Algay.  KoS p109 makes note of their Praxian intake.  

32 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

I've always wondered whether you could access magic from different traditions via ancester worship. So say my great great great grandmother was a western sorceress ( or grandfather if you would prefer ) who had a dalliance with the other grandparent...would I be able to contact them and learn sorcery ?

I think those who master sorcery have an intense sense of individuality that prevents them from entering Solace and being re-incarnated.  (Yes, there's a huge tension here within Malkionism).  Others who have learned some find themselves confined to the Citadel of Thought until their knowledge decays and they are finally able to be free to await reincarnation.  That is why Malkioni ancestors that can be contacted have no sorcery or Rightness.

11 minutes ago, Soccercalle said:

Maybe that's the right idea if you want the "loyal thane". Make him  a subculture of Orlanth. The upcoming Lightbringer Cult book will have Odayla and Voriof as sub cults of Orlanth. So a subcult can worship a different deity and not just a different aspect of him  (like Thunderous and Adventurous). But it doesn't "bring back Elmal" if that is the idea. If you want to have an "Elmal cult" that should probably just be a regional way of worshipping Yelmalio. (Like Waha is a god for butchers in Sartar but a god for warriors and khans in Prax).

I think the term used was subservient deity, which means that the minor (tribal) temple to Orlanth can obtain Elmal's runespells.  This means they don't get HYyalor's Command Horse (but you really don't need to be worship an associate of the Horse God to be good at fighting on horseback - just ask the Malkioni) but they do get Sunbright or Catseye which would be good fighting in the Dark.

8 minutes ago, svensson said:

Now I strongly believe that Orlanth Rex ought to provide Elmal's cult with a spell in gratitude for the Loyal Thane's just and honorable care for Orlanth's people while he was on the Lightbringer's Quest. Orlanth Thunderous is important to the tula for his weather control magic. That also supports that 'concerns at home' sensibility in the cult. So if we wish to discard an Orlanth subcult, logically it would be Orlanth Adventurous.

That's two runespells and still far too many.  Elmal doesn't need a helping hand from Orlanth Thunderous in addition to Orlanth in general.  

8 minutes ago, svensson said:

It seems to me that the solution is to move Shield up to the Rune Spells known and taught by Elmal's cult, and remove the other Orlanth Adventurous magics altogether.

Insofar as Jeff was once talking about variations of Yelmalio (Kargzant, Elmal etc), Orlanth was providing him with Shield.