metcalph

The RBoM rune spell is Mold Stone which has no additional POW cost whereas the equivalent Maker Magic is Shape Rock.  Shape Metal likewise has no additional POW cost whereas Shape Iron does and is restricted to a specific metal.  I think the Mold Stone is magic that humans gain from worshipping Flintnail and that the Rock Dwarves still use their Maker Magic.  I am unsure how Flintnail manages to teach Shape Metal considering it's kinda outside his area of expertise.

The idea of dwarven equivalent of Malkioni caste magic as opposed to their described Maker Magic is an interesting one. I think it morely to be associated with Diamond than to be associated with the metals (as they already have the Maker Magics for that).  I believe the Dwarves in general would not have access to RQ sorcery and that the Silver Dwarves who do, don't like it as it conflicts with their belief that the Material World is the highest form of reality. 

10 hours ago, EricW said:

Sourcerous tap is considered chaotic

Some people might consider it chaotic but Tapping is wholly lawful. 

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I like this but not the part about not using magic, sorcery fits but not spirit or divine as much...  pressure cookers, laboratory environments of course. 

Maker Magic costs POW.  Thus the Dwarves have an incentive to use it as little as possible.  They are more likely to use some factory following a Rube Goldberg crafting scheme rather than to cast a simple spell.  Rather than use a spell to create water into wine, they are more likely to fill a cauldron with wood and water, boil that for a lengthy period of time and add tincture - made by another complicated process - to the distillate to make wine.  

I think Dwarf Alchemy should their steampunkish vibe and be a different beast than other sources of alchemy. They would actively avoid using sorcery or Maker Magic as much as possible.  Their means of making potions would be convoluted crafting schemes.

A human taking a dwarven potion might suffer 1 general HP of damage as it's not suited for humans.  The dwarves sell it to them any way since they don't care.  For potions, I generally lean model them after the Fallout CRPG rather than spirit magic or sorcery.

Thus:

ALL-RAGE:  Induces a berserk rage.  Popular among some Iron Dwarves.

MONO: Induces a trance state which allows the User to focus intensely on one task at hand.  Popular among some Iron Dwarves who don't like ALL-RAGE 

NO THOUGHT:  User becomes a suggestive automaton capable of simple tasks.  Disturbingly popular among some dwarves who find it difficult to cope with the drudgery of their tasks.

MINDFUEL:  A salt made from Quicksilver and ingested as a powder.  User becomes prone to dazzling attacks of inspiration.

etc.

The Quicksilver Dwarves attempt to push these potions and others onto the dwarves of other castes and even among some humans.  They won't take payment in coin but rather favours and the like.  The Gold Dwarves see it as contrary to the Plan (insofar as it subverts their roles as supervisors of Mostali society) and do what they can to curb their use.

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

I think the Solar pantheon of Yelm and Yelmalio should come earlier, along with the Moon cult (given how closely they're working in the Lunar Empire).

The reason I put it later is that there's only two gods in the Fire Pantheon - Yelm and Yelmalio - that have any influence in Dragon Pass and their impact isn't large (Sun Dome County and the Grazers)

I think the scheme will follow the that outlined in the Sourcebook.  After Storm and Earth would come Moon, Darkness and Chaos thus providing enough for most campaigns.  Fire and Water would be in the third wave.  

5 minutes ago, EricW said:

Arkat was famous for his shifting cult allegiances and his ruthlessness in pursuing his single minded goal of destroying Gbaji. Were there any limits on his willingness to use whatever tools were available to advance towards his goal? 

There is a branch of Arkati who believe the answer is Yes.  

14 minutes ago, radmonger said:

To go from vampires to squids, tales of the reaching moon #10 has a Magasta cult writeup. That has not-always-voluntary 'initiates', who have to donate an additional 2 POW annually to remain a member, but get no magical benefits. While the full priests get to summon kraken.

They get access to rune spells for being an initiate.  The sacrifice of additional powe was to fuel Magasta's Pool, I'd thought.

I think the Trolls can roam up to the forest borders but once they go in, they become pincushions.  The trolls try and reduce the size of the forest by herding trollkin in their direction and the elves try and increase the size of their woods.  Hampering troll attempts to raze Redwood once and for all, is that only the Gash Tribe has any desire to take over the forest.  

I think the trolls, the elves all worship the river and tributaries when it runs through their lands.  I don't think either has boats - that speaks of a technological sophistication that isn't known for the region - the troll galleys are in Jrustela and the United Foresters may have started in Fronela.

31 minutes ago, g33k said:

I'm pretty sure I have seen official Chaosium Darkness-Pantheon genealogies which place Cragspider on an entirely-different branch of the Darkness family-tree (not even descended from KL herself; which AFAIK entirely rules out her being any sort of Uz, originally). 

Methinks that's Aranea you are remembering. 

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Since one can Heroquest and get effective immortality (or at least, regular resurrection), I'm curious as to who the oldest on the cube is. And how many very old ones there are - and how old that is. Do they all know each other?

And why don't they control the machinations of states (the way some have in the past).

 

(I should qualify that last bit - obviously some do still in some places, by why isn't it fairly standard?)

There are the immortal Brithini who have been alive since before the Gods War.  The oldest of them is Zzabur who considers himself human.

There also the Agitori of Pamaltela.

As far as I see it, an Orlanthi Thunderous worshipping Heler would normally get access to his special rune magics (Rain, Flood etc) but not any magics of his associate deities - that is nothing from the river gods, the grain goddesses and so on.  If he were to show up at the River Temple or Grain Temple, he would get the magic that the god or goddess provides *Orlanth* rather than Heler.  To benefit from Heler's associates, an Orlanthi would have to develop an identity as a Helering, like sacrifice a point of POW to join the Helering cult.

So in Orlanthi lands, Heler would not have a separate cult but his dedicated worshippers can be found attached to the temples to Orlanth, taking on the roles of Heler in the rituals.  A similar situation exists for Barntar.

2 hours ago, hipsterinspace said:

Heler’s associates notably exclude Magasta and most of the other big aquatic powers, likely due to the separation from the sea, a significant mythological point. Heler’s only associate cult connections to the sea proper are Triolina and his child with her, King Undine.

Heler comes from a different family of Gods than Magasta.  Heler and Triolina are the offspring of Sramak and Daliath (Body and Mind) while Magasta is the son of Daliath and Framanthe (Mind and Spirit).  So Heler's non-association with Magasta and other Manthie isn't due to his isolation from the sea.

I think part of the turbulence is that people are assuming there's no cost to having a shrine to Heler or Barntar.  But I don't think that follows.  A minor temple to Orlanth isn't normally going to have shrines to Barntar and Heler, it would more likely have a shrine to one or the other.  So a minor riverine temple to Orlanth would have access to Helering rune spells while a minor hillside temple might have Barntaring spells.   

Just now, radmonger said:

 

Note that this is not true for an Irripi Ontor initiate. That is a similar cult, filling a similar social role, but does not worship the same entity.

 

They also shared the same temple in New Pavis.  IMO Irrippi and Buserian Sages can worship at the Lhankor Mhy Temples and get rune points replenished.  They just can't sacrifice for rune magics that are alien to Lhankor Mhy (such as IO's Madness) or for rune magic from LM's associated cults.

2 hours ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

I can't remember where, can anyone remember? but I remember reading that dragonnewts often die because they've never in a thousand thousand lifetimes learned you have to eat

Nearest I can think of is Sandy suggesting that Dragonewts only get experience gain rolls when they die.  

On 1/18/2023 at 7:14 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Godunya’s guards are not dragonewts, but are mortal men whose devotion and dedication allows them to assume the form of dragons. So they have only the man rune but could have the dragon rune when they assume dragon form.

They could also use the Illusion Rune from Thalurzni Mikaday (borrowing from Zhaungzi's parable of the Butterfly Dream).  They use a rune spell (like Argan Argar's Become Other) to spend time as a Dragonewt or a Human (if a 'newt) and use the resulting transformation to acquire mystical awareness and achieve illumination.  

Just now, davecake said:

I'm not saying it is impossible for humans to 'have the Dragonewt rune', but that someone having the Dragonewt rune in their HeroQuest stats does not at mean that they do in RQG, because the latter strictly implies a change to  their essential nature, and the former does not. 

I would have preferred a statement like the above about having the Dragonewt Rune means some inhuman features rather than a tediously abstract exegesis about the treatment of runes between RQG and HQG.

38 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

From what Jeff's said, a human Aldrya worshiper who gains the plant rune isn't a human anymore, like how initiating to Kyger Litor requires turning into a troll.

Would this count as a sign of not being human?    

Quote

The man called the Laughing Singer was born in 1582 amid frightening omens.
When he was born, the midwife said, “He is left handed, we must kill him." But
the mother refused saying, "the world has changed and he shall live." The midwife
said, "It is my duty," and stabbed the baby, but purple blood burned the knife away.
The blood killed the midwife but when it splashed on the child’s parents they were not
harmed, nor was the important sage, Minaryth, who has worn purple ever since. His
parents named him Orlaront, but most called him the Laughing Singer.

Sartar Companion p72

23 minutes ago, SDLeary said:

After thinking about this overnight, I would say that stone weapons are ablative. 

Except there are plenty of stone weapons in the world which are not ablative.  For example the Mere.  

4 minutes ago, davecake said:

Runes in HQG and RQG mean fundamentally different things.

If a human worshipping Aldrya means that he acquires the plant rune in RQG then I see no problem with a draconist like Orlaront having the Dragonewt Rune.

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

But the stone weapon discussion started because someone can't shrug off these lingering doubts about believability and consistency. 

Thinks metal weapons routinely going through armour is believable but stone weapons doing the same isn't?  If the weapon actually went through armour as you think the rules suggest, then why doesn't the armour lose AP as a result of being penetrated?  Perhaps the AP actually reflects the coverage as well as the thiickness?

3 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

It depends on tbe context and the weapon.

In  RQ context a 1D8+1 broadsword will penetrate 6pt bronze plate 3/8ths of the time on a normal hit, more often when enhanced by STR bonus.

If you are going to use "RQ context" to say that a broadsword can penetrate bronze plate then surely the same argument can be made for stone weapons?

2 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

yes I would understand that but Jeff put curses in the spirit magic part. That makes sense with the background, of course shaman can curse... but how ? !

Covert spirit possession.  The spirit resides in you and every now and then casts a spirit magic spell which makes life difficult for you.  

• You are working on an intricate lock and suddenly you are befuddled.
• Someone jostles your drink and the spirit casts fanaticism.
• You whip out your sword only to find it has been dullbladed.
• You have difficulty lighting fires.
• You can't run very fast.

An example of a supposedly brittle stone weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_(weapon)