metcalph

32 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

This one is interesting. It has more meat than CoT, but the majority of stuff (far from all though) in it is going to end up in the Chaos cults book, one imagines?

Some of the innovations are questionable and the example characters won't be in the book.

19 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

And you still get the same salamander with every summoning? Back in the day (RQ2), elementals had 1d6 INT and that put one in six elementals in the low average IQ range (80, according to the back of my envelope), but even if smart elementals are no longer as bright as one in eleven humans, I bet they can still build up quite some resentment. They tried to unionise, but on the picket line, their strike placards soon turned to ash.

Is this really how we want to treat the staff at Gustbran Incorporated? Say instead that salamander working hours are limited by the fatigue of focusing their heat, the EU Working Time Directive, or common decency? Or that only hissable villains would use salamanders in a forge, it being so bad for their health?

Well, if the Salamanders were working for the cult of Vrang 2Jhomang, it's probable they would have been the brains of the operation.

11 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

One of Greg's maps Jeff shared a while ago, showed Dawn Age Lightbringer missionaries reaching western Melib.

It's probably this map (screenshot)

11 minutes ago, g33k said:

"older books" have distinctly-limited availability.
What's in print for Chaos deities?

Cults of Terror is Print on Demand at Chaosium. 

Based on an unboxing of the Gencon Books (linked before), I'll just add some further trivia that I noticed.

• Melib is shown as having a significant population of Lightbringer worship.  Not just the city of Dosakayo but perhaps up to a third of the island.
• Kolat's mother is the Mother of Space?!?  (ie the darkness demon that begat Dehore, Subere and Himile)
• The Red Elf spell Proliferate has a particularly wince-inducing example about what effects it has on a dog with puppies.  Little wonder everybody hates them.
• Ernamola's special crop is Sorghum and not Millet as has presented in other sources up to and including the Guide to Glorantha and the Cults of RQ Prosopedia?  Since Millet is said to have come from Slonta, I suspect the Goddess Switch is to blame.

Based on a couple of piccies by Andrew Bean.  

LIGHTBRINGERS

Orlanth: 17 pages - Cults of Prax 7, Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes 15

Vinga: 6 pages

Chalana Arroy: 9 pages - CoP 8 pages, S:KoH 6

Eurmal: 7 pages - Sartar Companion 9 (Don't think this is comparable)

Issaries: 8 pages - CoP 7, S:KoH 5

Lhankor Mhy: 8 pages - CoP 6, S:KoH 7

Barntar: 3 pages

Daka Fal: 5 pages - CoP 4

Foundchild: 3 pages - Griffin Mountain 3, Trollpak 3

Gargarth: 3 pages, Tales of the Reaching Moon 2

Heler: 4 pages, SC 5 pages

Humakt:  8 pages, CoP 7, S:KoH 6

Lanbril: 7 pages, Pavis: Threshold to Danger 7

Mastakos: 3 pages

Odayla:  3 pages - SC 5

Storm Bull: 9 pages - CoP 5 , S:KoH 7

Valind: 5 pages

Waha: 7 pages - CoP 4

Ygg: 5 pages

Yinkin: 4 pages - S:KoH 4

EARTH GODDESSES

Ernalda: 13 pages - S:KoH 13

Aldrya: 12 pages - CoP 10, Elder Secrets 8

Asrelia: 6 pages

Babeester Gor:  5 pages - SC 4

Caladra & Aurelion: 9 pages - Cult Compendium 10

Cult of the Bloody Tusk: 4 pages - ES 4

Donandar: 5 pages - CC 4

Eiritha: 6 pages - CoP 5

Flamal: 3 pages

Grain Goddesses: 8 pages (Dorasta in Dorastor: Land of Doom had 3)

Maran Gor: 5 pages - ToTRM 3

Mostal 10 pages - ES 5

Pamalt: 9 pages - ToTRM 4

Ty Kora Tek: 4 pages

Uleria: 4 pages

Voria: 1 page

Now to find another way to kill time until I can buy them books.

24 minutes ago, hkokko said:

Thanks. indeed could not find any mention of Troll Trade in Pamaltela but there probably needs to be some. Gorakiki is good suggestion as well all the suggestions. What do you mean by Shadow trolls?

The hot trolls or jungle trolls that followed Moorgarki.  They have no cold because of what Pamalt did to them.  Darkness minus cold is shadow.  Rather than Darktongue, their language is Shadowspeech (according to AH Glorantha Bestiary) hence my thinko.

43 minutes ago, g33k said:

is this... better, somehow??!?

It's a reference to what was written about them in White Bear and Red Moon

Quote

The Pteranodons were the metamorphized bodies of other types of dinosaurs who realized their condition and set out to purify themselves.  Any dinosaur could curl up and weave a magic egg around itself, later hatching into a flying pteranodon.

I think Dragonewts tame dinosaurs to remind them of their fallen nature.  Once sufficiently aware dinosaurs hatch themselves into Pteradons. 

I assume trolls are welcome because they hate elves almost as much as the Fonritans do.   The only question is where do they come from?  The elves block access to Tarmo although a trail could be made through the Baruling Valley.  The Shadow Trolls are allied to the Elves and hate hoomanz.  There are the Jrusteli Trolls who would find it the easiest to reach Fonrit as they are likely chums with the Malasp.  

The only other piece of information is the Regional Cults Table in Troll Gods which doesn't give any significant worship for Argan Argar in the Tarmo or the Jungles of Pamaltel but omits Jrustela.  I suppose you could argue that Argan Argar's influence spreads on how well connected the troll places are to the Shadowlands (as well as their level of sophistication) and that some cults of Gorakiki fulfil mercantile functions in the Tarmo.

The God Learners in Fonrit.  I've included some foreign details to indicate what they were capable of doing at the time.  

c. 480 ST - Ten Colonies established in Umathela by Slontans, Caladrans and others.  There may be some colonies in Fonrit as the name of their Hero of this period Abbak is also found in the Fonritan City, Abbakar [and Delerenkos (in Abbakka as a tile of their Queen) - PHM]

500 ST - Garangordos conquers Fonrit.

580 ST - The Seshnegi settle Umathela.  Now their arrival is mentioned in the Fonritan chapter of the Guide by the earlier migration isn't?

646 ST - Abiding Book revealed.

654 ST - God Learners destroy Vralos.

679 ST - Kalabar is established.

770 ST - MSE dominates Kareeshtu.

780 ST - God Learners begin mapping the Gates to the Otherwords.

800 ST - God Learners invade the rural holy places and also begin to guess at the forgotten places.

806 ST - God Learners map the Spirit World.

838 ST - MSE intervenes in Fonrit and defeats a rival coalition.  Kareeshtu formally becomes part of the Empire and large parts of Fonrit submit to the Empire for protection.

845 ST - God Learners raid the strongest gates.

849 ST - Goddess Switch performed.  The God Learners are busy trying to identify the Elder Gods and the switch was an attempt to overcome divine resistance.

861 ST - Six-Legged Empire established in Jolar. 

879 ST - MSE rules over all Fonrit.  The MSE describes it as taking control of a few key ports and playing off the others against each other.

901 ST - MSE orders withdrawal from Jolar.  

907 ST - Kolat Slave Riots; Most Fonritan co-operation with MSE ends.

908 ST - Jann of Afadjann revolts.  Kareeshtu soon follows.

922 ST - Last MSE holdings in Pamaltela are lost. 

955 ST - Closing strikes Fonrit. 

960 ST - God Learners begin Power Heroquests.  

1020 ST - Umathelan Coalition is destroyed with the death of the Lord of the World's Knowledge

1049 ST - Universe snaps back.  Gift carriers active?

1077 ST - Invisible Fleet destroys God Learner Fleet in Koraru Bay.

1080 ST - Fonritans retake Ateggeanga from the Umathelans.  The Umathelans are probably Malkioni dominated by the Elves rather than God Learners.

1137 ST- Kalabar destroyed.  

Thoughts about Jraktal.

I don't think Jraktal teaches the sorcerous tap spell, rather he is the source of weaker magics that the Fonritans and Westerners readily identified as Tapping.  Although the Jraktali might have been leaders of Blueskin society before their Conquest, I think they are low status magicians that thrive by tapping petitioners in return for magical services or extorting protection.  The Masters hate them because they are a drain on their slaves 

2 hours ago, hkokko said:

I could have sworn that I saw a place mentioned that has exceptional healing powers in Pamaltela but cannot find It now. Something possibly involving Doraddi or Veldang.

Perhaps Manelarpanan (Guide p598)?

11 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

So immortal sorcerers had to impersonate demigods who traded in Vadeli techniques in the first place — sounds doable.

They didn't trade in Vadeli techniques - they used Vadeli magical insights, which is a slightly different thing altogether.

Things I would like to have a better idea about:

Jeff has been clear that the Vadeli use only sorcery.  So how exactly did they "pretend" to be Gods?  I imagine as they were worshipped, the magic points expended was channeled to fuel their spells.  Was there anything more to that?  The Vadeli could always be lying their faces off but that would have been something a truth spell would have shown.

Seseine and Echeklihos are both worshipped in Fonrit.  How exactly do the two get along?  I suppose I'll have to wait for the Lunar Book next year for the beginnings of an answer.

I had thought of Ompalam as having some twisted austerity magics.  Sort of like the Shamanic Abilities in the RQ rules.  The idea being that the more intensely you devote yourself to Ompalam, the more gifts you get*.  Thus the society is not reinofrced on their ability to command others (although that helps) but on the desire of the worshippers to acquire better magic in return for their dedication to their master.  Ompalam won't provide any other magics so an intermediary like the Master's ancestor provides the magics instead. 

*If a slave sacrifice characteristics, would that go towards the Master?  Food for thought.

I'm not sure blaming the Vadeli for Pamaltelan slavery actually works.  Slavery in the sense of capturing outsiders and making them work for you was known in the Golden Age which is kinda  before Vadel set foot in Pamaltela.  I think the Vadeli legacy is a lot subtler than saying the Vadeli created Ompalam, which isn't quite what Revealed Mythologies or the Guide say.  

4 hours ago, Zit said:

what is the source of dragon magic ? Dragons dreams ?

The Dragon that the magician will become, transcending Time and Space. 

6 hours ago, davecake said:

 Or do the Garangordites claim that Tishamto was a slave civilisation? Certainly I think the Doraddi would vehemently deny it. 

The Doraddi are free to believe bad things about Tishamto because it's not part of their ancestral mythology.  The surviving descendants of Tishamto after being conquered by the Artmali migrated under Afati-Tal to Laskal.  They are called the New Artmali then but that could be an intended parallel with the New Christians of Spain (ie Jews and Muslims) and they might have been forced to wear Blue Paint (as per the Entekosiad).  Meanwhile the Doraddi ancestors are wandering around destroying the Artmali Empire with the Firefall.

Tishamto in the Fonritan eyes may or may not have been a slave state.  Its conquest and subsequent destruction are what is important to them and not what it was like before.  It was good and then Bad Things happened and their ancestors were forced to do even more Bad Things.  It is the start of a mythical cycle which explains to the Fonritans why things are so shit.  Its always been like this - the only way ahead is to do unto others before they do the same unto you.

6 hours ago, davecake said:

While there are ways in which the Glorious Ones parallel the Seven Mothers, there are big differences too. One is that the original, untainted, deities that the Glorious Ones usurp the power of are still very much active and powerful, and worshipped to the south.

But Lhankor Mhy/Buserian, Humakt and Ernalda are also worshipped within the Lunar Empire so I'm not actually sure this is a Big Difference between the Seven Mothers and the Glorious Ones.  

2 hours ago, Murf said:

A further questions about Dragon Cults:

Would there be Rune levels along with standard benifits such as Allied Sprites, increased chance for POW gain by priests, common rune spells (particularly spell teaching.) and devin intervention? 

In RQ3 Gods of Glorantha, the Cults of Immanent Mastery and Godunya did have Rune Levels with access to reusable rune magic.  But they aren't conventional rune cults and so wouldn't have all the conventional benefits (neither cult had common rune spells, allied spirits, increased POW gain etc in the shortform writeup).

Hardcover now available for Oz.

26 minutes ago, hkokko said:

Can somebody give a hint where Nk korakku is in the AA or GtG maps?

p88 in the Argan Argar Atlas on the south LHS.

My guess as to Ompalam's hostile depiction is that the Vadeli have revealed the horrible undeniable secret about him (ie chaos) and the Fonritans have been coping poorly with this ever since. 

Tentacle, for example, might be an attempt at providing a non-chaotic justification for cosmic slavery.  But the old ways of Ompalam still endure and Fonrit is still speeding towards a chasm. 

11 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

Jotimam gets a brief mention over at the Well of Daliath as being a choas deity. I've run a search here and there are only 3 mentions in passing.......

Who or what was Jotimam and what were it's features or characteristics ?

 

Predecessor Chaos God. Mentioned in the Guide p555 (A Fonritan Prophecy) and elsewhere.  Seems to be a Fonritan God since the only in-gloranthan reference we have (other than God Learner) is Fonritan.

8 minutes ago, hkokko said:

Regarding the import export table on the same chapter in GtG  - where would these regions export these products to. The rest of the goods I can extrapolate.  Timber and Salt possibly only nearby regions? Tea, glass, glassware and parchment to "civilised" regions? 
 

---

 

I just assume they trade such goods to the civilized world at large.  Thus even in Sog City, you would get copper from Dragon Pass, Dye from Kralorela, Glass from Teshnos (more highfalutin' that the Ralian garbage), Incense from Teleos etc at the local markets.  

7 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

The Iron Crown is so confusing! One would have thought the Iron Crown was lost (first to Pentans and then Balazarings in the Battle of Highbridge) in 718 (as there aren't that many famous battles between Votanki and Pentans), but this predates Alakoring Dragonbreaker by a couple of centuries. So I guess we most postulate a second ambush of Votanki against Pentans a couple of centuries later with the same outcome, and also not involving Alakoring even then? So the Iron Crown epic must be about an even later king? (Or I suppose there could be two Iron Crowns...)

Dijaar and his Five Friends are shown on the map as being active circa 940 ST.  

source: https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-decline-and-fall-of-the-ewf/