metcalph

2 hours ago, Bohemond said:

I have a memory of a rune spell of Argan Argar that allows humans to become trolls and trolls to become humans for the duration of the spell, but I cannot find the listing in any of the RQG listing for Argan Argar--it doesn't seem to be in the RQG book or the Red Book of Magic. Can anyone help me with this--what am I remembering? 

Become Other, Red Book of Magic p16.  It might be a rune spell of the Only Old One, which is why it didn't appear in RQ:G.

11 hours ago, ajs said:

Which book/zine is this mentioned in?

Arcane Lore p41 and it was for the HW:RPG or HQ1.0.  

Quote

Red Dragon Servant
(of Krisa Oraba, of Dragon Pass)
Martial Arts Band which had come to Dragon Pass from
the Far East.
• Manifestation. 3
• Strength. 5/10
• Powers. Meditate Skill, Sword Combat Talent (W5);
Refute Attack Talent (W5), Strike Dead with Sword
Talent, Avoid Attack Talent, Heal Self Talent.
• Worshippers. 2,000
• Location. Large monastery in Karse, Heortland;
Smaller temple in Tarsh, with dojo outside of
Furthest; many worshippers presumably far overseas.
• Secrets. Devotional martial arts.
• Connections: Are a part of the Draconic orders.

Never really caught people's imagination and it was quietly forgotten.  It could be used as a cult that develops after the Dragonrise but I have a hard time believing it existed significantly before then.

And also, this might be useful for ideas.

I dunno about the scenario but Harajallenburg is described in the Guide

Quote

Harajallenburg,
the Walking Fort
In the God Time the dwarves created many
unusual structures of war. To fight the Red
Men of Varsellintown they made an army of
these monstrous things, of which only this
one, in Genertela, is known to remain. Its
inhabitants died long ago.

Harajallenburg is a large castle,
approximately 80 yards square, made of huge
blocks of shaped stone. Its outer walls are 20
yards tall. It has stout round towers at each
corner, a great keep in the center, and other
fortifications typical of an elaborate castle.
Eight legs, two per corner, carry the castle
about the countryside. It normally rambles
along at about 6 miles per day. It has been
known to sprint as fast as a horse.

Of unusual design is the entry, which
is underneath the stone floor. To enter
Harajallenburg through the gateway one must
walk beneath it for about 100 feet, then ascend
through a staircase into the outer courtyard.
In the old days, the castle used to squat and
crush unwanted intruders.

The interior of the castle, unlike
its outside, is elaborately decorated.
Furthermore, its automatic machinery is
still active so that its internal defenses, food
making machines (if you call dwarf victuals
food), and, most importantly, mechanical
library, still function.

No one permanently inhabits the castle.
Visitors often go there. Various denizens
sneak around, trying to find a safe place to
live. On occasion outlaws or princes have
taken up residence. But most often people go
there, stay a while, and depart. Shamans have
stated that ghosts exist in the castle, although
their antecedents remain unclear. This may
have something to do with the reason why
most people leave.

p643

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

Does anyone know what book title is abbreviated as "TR"?

Thunder Rebels.

1 hour ago, davecake said:

Mallia has two forms of initiation, ‘voluntary’ and ‘involuntary’ (you initiate to Mallia as an alternative to succumbing to disease, and essentially gain no benefits except becoming a carrier of the disease without it progressing). That might also be described as propitiation, and I don’t think is Chaotic (and doesn’t require Chaotic behaviour - you could use your renewed health just to travel to a CA and seek healing, even to nurse your infected friends). 

Voluntary and involuntary aren't the right words to use.  If one choses to perish from the disease rather than become a carrier then it's still a choice, init?  I'm inclined to regard someone becoming a carrier in the same moral space as one who conceals a zombie bite (or a positive COVID test) and give them a 20% Chaos rating if not otherwise chaotic.  

I think the wheels are built on the side of the Chariot-shaped Temple (which has no clearance between the temple and the ground).  At the front of the temple are huge chains or ropes leading to a massive statuary complex of seven horses.  At some point or another there was magical paint to render the ground floor invisible but it has since worn off.

8 minutes ago, radmonger said:

Slavery and torture are arguably exceptions, in that the corresponding organised cults are, in all canon I am aware of, supposed to be strictly Fonritian.

This suggests some form of spirit-cult worship of Ompalam and Ikadz either exists, or at least is remembered as existing, in Dragon Pass and Prax.

There are Broo lay members of Ikadz in the Rubble, so he's not strictly Fonritan.

1 minute ago, Diadochoi said:

Krarsht temple reference is p175 of Pavis Gateway to Adventure

For a city under Lunar occupation.  Dunno about you but I do think the Lunars would be unhappy about the Storm Bull temple killing people for being chaotic. 

8 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

Thanks for that

I'm wondering about things like game-world logic, and interested in gaming ideas to deal with this

If all Chaos is automatically detectable, then its going to be near-impossible to ever hide by posing as non-Chaotic

But it isn't automatically detectable.  From the skill description.

"The skill does not single out the source, but rather gives the Storm Bull cultist a sense of unease, or even pain, and the knowledge
that Chaos is close at hand.  The intensity of the feeling gives a rough estimate of the amount of Chaos present. It is effective within a 15-meter range."

That's a hole big enough to smuggle drugs and bombs through.  The only way a Storm Bully could be certain that somebody was secretly chaotic is to repeatedly meet that person.  He could do this out to the desert but in a city like New Pavis, he can never be sure.

So a person who once had a Chaos Gift ten years ago as a joke is probably going to annoy a Storm Bully as would a Telmori.  But at this level, they probably aren't even sure that it was just a person or an invisible chaotic spirit that blew in from the wastes.  A Krarshti Rune Lord or Vampire lying in wait to ambush the Storm Bully would send out a much stronger sense of unease and they would almost certainly have drawn weapons.

10 minutes ago, EricW said:

If initiating into a chaos cult sets up sense chaos, what about propitiatory initiation into Malia? Or is Malia not chaotic anymore (hard to keep track)?

Malia is chaotic but propitiatory worship (*not* initiation) of her is not.  

I assume a runic rating in the Chaos Rune would be enough to set off the Sense Chaos with a strength depending on the actual rating.  Receiving a Chaos Feature or Chaos Gift is sufficient to confer a Chaos rune rating.  I think that joining a chaotic cult would be be similar with a minimum of 20% (based on the Telmori description in the RuneQuest Glorantha Bestiary).

The chief point is that the Trader Princes set out from Drom and it's still important in trade between Ralios and Maniria.  So you really have a large proportion of Manirians and Holy Country people visiting.   Hence a notable Esrolian influence is possible.  

According to the Historical Maps, Drom seems to have been outside Estali control as of 1450 ST at a time when Castelain's route had been active for almost 300 years.  Even in 1220, the New Dangim Alliance didn't control it.  The area was controlled by the Middle Sea Empire so the Forester Prince might have had its foundations in that time.  Perhaps he was just looking after the local Forest for the Emperor.  Doesn't matter which Emperor, the title could have even been created by short-lived Slontan Empire.

1 hour ago, g33k said:

Either way, the question remains -- who is this deity?  (now with your additional query "and from which Pantheon?")
 

I make no such queries.  You are the one asking questions and quibbling with the answers for some odd reason.

5 hours ago, g33k said:

Hmm.  Umath & Kargan Tor are from the Theyleyan "Celestial Court" (the primal forces before Orlanth&Co gained ascendance).
I thought Shargash was in that newer generation, alike with Orlanth/etc (i.e. I don't think he's part of the old DH "Glorantay").

I don't see what the problem is.  Shargash *killed* Umath whereas Kargan Tor was alive until he abandoned his post shortly before the Spike disintegrated.

5 hours ago, g33k said:

Even so... wouldn't Shargash be another mask of Battle, i.e. the same deity as Kargan Tor?
If you ascribe the role of "Strength" to Shargash, who then is "Battle" in this analysis?

A God of Battle from a pantheon that didn't obey the Emperor.  

1 hour ago, Geoff R Evil said:

Agree, he is indeed a nephew. However the Lightbringers book states “Although his father and brothers were tamed or destroyed in the Gods War, Ygg was never conquered. ” and as he has the death rune it makes me wonder if he defeated Humakt at some point, either that or Orlanth loaned him death. It’s a powerful statement, never conquered. Yet I cannot find anything that indicates he was. So while he supported Orlanth generally either he was not at Stormfall, or escaped without being beaten….which is possible.

Storm Bull also has Death without being loaned it by Orlanth or beating up Humakt.  It's possible that he acquired it from Ragnaglar who stole it from a sleeping Zorak Zoran (KoS p58)

33 minutes ago, Geoff R Evil said:

Question: I know somewhere in my dim and distant past I remember reading something like this power over undeath. But I cannot find it now, can anyone link me to the content as I want to be able to understand Humakts power over undeath properly.

Cults of Terror p51-52

Quote

Vivamort was a renegade from Death, as are many of his followers renegades from various Death cults. Vampires are greatly affected by the determined presentation of the Death Rune by one consecrated (Initiate or higher) to a Death cult. The Rune causes damage on touch and acts as a focus for a highly effective Disrupt spell. Forceful display of the Rune gains the individual a measure of personal protection from vampires and a method of attack also. Vampires will usually not directly attack the presenter, but may order Initiates, allied spirits, or available skeletons, zombies, etc., to do so. 

Shargash who is associated with strength repeatedly in Dara Happan mythology

I suppose a key spark is the residents of the places that were razed for the forthcoming Lunar temple.  Hnedira orders it as a sign of strength but the Lunar architects don't show up.  When it becomes apparent they are due "next year", Hendira looks foolish and there are daily homeless protests.  Erstwhile supporters who had been impressed by her now realize that she's always been a bit useless and soon plot her demise.  

The thing about the Umathelans is that they've been under Elven thumb.  The strongest Elf influence would be Gods worshipped by them so Babeester and Ehilm would have greater roles in Umathelan society. 

Pamalt has a image problem in that the Elves dislike Pamalt.  So even if there's some Earth Goddess acknowledgement of him, that's not going to a very major part.  The last Umathelan that we know of to give Pamalt any attention was the Lord of the World's Knowledge (cults of RuneQuest: The Earth Goddesses p116) and the Elves killed him.   Could there a local version of Pamalt like Elmal to Yelmalio?  I had thought for a time this would be called Talpam (based on a list of Elf names in the old Elder Secrets Book).  But this cult would be intentionally constrained as the Elves would be well aware of who he is (they have a different view of the gods than humans do).

Most of the Umathelans are aware of their history as God Learners and have avoided the Wizards ever since their fall.  There might be a stronger avoidance of sorcery as being Evil Magic that Almost Destroyed Our World than there would be in Genertela.  Such an attitude would still be around - some clans might be intentionally illiterate - but has largely receded as a result of the havocs wrought by the Cult of Silence and the Fonritans. 

The Orlanthi would know of a predecessor Storm God, Baraku, who would also be a God of Bandits in Fonrit.   He could be a Waha analog as his chief hero was the Lord of Beasts who warred against the Artmali.  

FWIW, Engr - the God behind the term Engrioni - might be a technical term/snappy Brithini insult to describe the Malkion made Flesh ("Malkion [...] came forth to descend into the material world and bind himself within its limitations. As a result, Zzabur [...] rejected Malkion [...]" Cults of RuneQuest: Mythology p100).  

If I were to make Brithos a politically turbulent place, I would take a fragment from Cults of Terror which speaks of city states (in Arolanit) and rework it thus.

Although Brithos had a King, the City Talars were supreme in their own cities.  The Engrioni changed all that.  Rather than travel to a city of a recalcitrant Talar to make him do his bidding, the King could send his Engrioni around instead.   In response, the Talars hired their own Engrioni to impede those of the King.  Before long, the stronger Talars soon discovered they could use their own Engrioni to coerce weaker Talars into becoming their vassals, additionally weakening the Kingdom.   

The demand for foreign troops explains why the Brithini would tolerate Arkat's Father running around on the Island and also a background to their civil war.  

The chief interesting point is the apparent idea that after breaking Brithini strictures, one could begin anew.  That said, Hrestol should have known better than to carry around a sword even if he didn't plan on using it.  

I don't find the idea of Brithini Engroni compelling and even if the King felt there was some merit to the idea (which *is* a plausible reaction), it's difficult to see how he could get past any Zzaburi veto.  I suspect the idea of Brtihini immortality being central to their conservatism wasn't thought about at the time.

If I were to bring this up to date, I would say that King Erltof decided to hire Seshnegi Men-of-All Bodyguards* to protect himself and his Kingdom.  That is something a dissatisfied King could do without breaking caste *and* it also provides grounds for the Rebellion of Kaldes.  

*I was thinking of the Numerus Batavorum to give you an idea of how the Brithini may have appreciated them.

Given that Mostal teaches Diamond Edge (but not to the Mostali), I really don't have a problem with Flintnail being a Rune Cult for humans or Rockheart Veinseeker casting rune spells.  Whether the Dwarfs of Pavis know rune magic or not (Ginkizzie probably does while the others might not) isn't that much of a big deal - they are apostates or merely strange and weird.  Dwarfs casting rune magics isn't that much of a concern to the Decamony in the way Openhandists are.  

If Pavis was a sorcerer in his lifetime, he's almost certainly a demigod worshipped for his rune magics now.  A big problem with the cult of Pavis being a sorcery cult in RQ:G is the literacy requirement for effective sorcery.  So if either his priesthood were competent sorcerers protecting their flock or the average Pavisite during the Troll Occupation was literate.  Neither works for me.  The Priesthood may know some sorcery but it's probably obscure ritual magic rather than being anything handy like City Harmony.  

Possibilities:

• The Colymar being wealthy can afford to raise more troops than poorer tribes.
• The Jonstown Tribes have additional troops that do not make up part of the City Militia.  The Culbrea for example have the Headhunters and the Malani Tworidge.
• The Jonstown Treasurer is pilfering monies given to him by the tribes to raise troops for the City Militia.