metcalph

4 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

why not ? 🙂

After all he is chaotic.

So is the Red Goddess.  Yet what she says is true nevetheless.  This is Glorantha the last time I looked.

4 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Vivamort believed chaos was able to save himself. And we see that he lost a lot.

Vivamort still saved himself,  no?  The difference between him and Gark is that Vivamort is only in it for himself while Gark cares about everyone.  

3 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

the question is (and I have not the answer) : Is his claims real or his "followers" are not at all in peace ? Maybe their souls, or the remaining parts, suffer a lot ?

Why would Gark's claims need to be false or his souls suffering?  I'm not sure I see the point.   Gark's just as environmentally destructive if his claims are true and his souls is a state of nirvana.  The only difference is that you can't use truth magics to call his priests out for being frauds. 

2 hours ago, Richard S. said:

Gark is another agent of deceptive Chaos, like Gbaji and Ompalam. He runs a massive scam by offering eternal life and peace, then slaughtering the poor and wretched en masse and reanimating their bodies. The souls never get to experience his eternity, and the bodies remain in perfect peace with no mind to trouble them.

I don't agree that Gark is deceptive.  His claims of peace and eternal life could be totally legitimate and he would still be just as bad to the Cosmos. 

18 hours ago, bronze said:

Are there any known human Blue Moon heroes after the Time? 

The nearest is the Duke of the Blue Moon, who might also be the Emperor's Cousin.

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[Lakistalia on the Blue Moon Plateau - PHM] is the home of the Duke of the Blue Moon. He, or his dynasty, has led the natives in worship of the Lunar Way since before the start of Time. They are accepted as relatives to the Empire and accorded every effort of grace and cordiality to an equal, but inferior, kin.

Guide p347

31 minutes ago, Byll said:

Do you still call it Fireday if you're a Yelmalian and it's your minor holy day? or should you call it Flashday or something?

No different from Ash Odin's Day, Holy Thor's Day or Good Freya's Day, no? 

My modest Lantern proposal. 

It's the first step in a mystical quest to become the Last Light (cf Arinsor Clearmind "[...]. was so devoted to Yelmalio that he shone with an internal glow during the darkest nights" Pavis: Threshold to Danger p51) . Unfortunately all teachers of it were conscripted by Sheng Seleris for his wars and the full teaching has been lost.  

Now to do the Farsee...

I think the Darkness and Chaos books won't be needed so soon as we already have Cults of Terror and Trollpak. I'm struggling to muster much enthusiasm for the water book and think that spirits will next in line after the Solars.  I could (probably will) be wrong. 

On a related note, I just had the idea that for his religious services to Humct (whom he worshipped before turning to Vivamort), Delecti will wear a mad scientist's lab coat.

To give some idea as to Delecti's status, in the Troll War he fought on the side of Ironhoof and other good guys.  Nobody likes him, he's too tough to be done in and nobody wants to see him on the other side. 

They probably have Limnades (Cults of Runequest: Prosopedia p77).  The Hidden Greens for example have the Women of Seclusion (Guide p453).

I don't think there's a specific occupation of Lunar Assassin.  Rather the Satraps use a whole variety of magicians, gladiators and criminals.  

6 hours ago, Orlanthatemyhamster said:

Except that it's not complete, your sorcery restricts the number of spirit magic spells you can know, for some bizarre reason.

I always liken sorcery as being best performed with a clear head and knowledge of spirit magic to be under the influence of various intoxicants and narcotics.  

31 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

"Endarkened"???

Benightened.

43 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Don't forget Flintnail Dwarves, as they are Openhandist and Individualist, also they worship Flintnail and Pavis.

Apostates might be a better word for them.

43 minutes ago, soltakss said:

.There are also Chaos Mostali in the Tunnelled Hills, but who knows what they believe.

Krarsht is my guess.

2 hours ago, Richard S. said:

As of the last cults draft that the Well documented, she's associated with Biselenslib, Everina, Jadarenasa, Lodril, Pelora, Orlanth Thunderous, River Horse, Shargash, Yelm, and Yestendos. No clue what each of them provide though.

Judging from the Cults of Runequest books released so far and the Red Book of Magic

Biselenslib - Command Water Bird

Everina - Bless Wild Rice.

Jaderenasa - Awaken Loon

Pelora - Bless Barley

River Horse - Rider River Horse.

Yestendos - Float

That leaves Lodril, Orlanth Adventurous, Shargash and Yelm.  I think it probable they would provide Shield as they are unlikely to alongside each other in the same temple (ie an Osliran temple which honors Orlanth Adventurous is unlikely to honor Yelm, Shargash or Lodril).

I think Storm Bull had a much greater range in the God Time but that was whittled down to Chaos-Killer - he has lost nearly everything and now only has his rage.   Pretty much like how Yelmalio was a Fire God and left with only Light.  The main subcults (Bisos, Bemur etc) are relics of what Storm Bull was like.  

Storm Bull/Bisos has 18,000 worshippers in the Western Reaches which is only slightly less than Prax's 19,600 worshippers (5,600 Bison , 3,900 High Llama, 6,000 Impala, 3,200 Morokanth and 900 Pol Joni).  Sartar only has 2,500, the Far Place 1,050 and Talastar 3,750.  Heortland has a large number (over 10,000) but it is unclear how much of the 1621 population is controlled by God Forgot in 1625.   So the Western Reaches has a problem with Chaos, which is comparable to the Wastelands and more than Snakepipe Hollow.

The Lunars are unlikely to be a cause as Storm Bull is not worshipped in the Heartlands.  There is a chaos land in Charg the details of which are literally obscured (cf the Argan Argar Atlas for the Bleak Land p17).  In addition, there is a bygone detail in Avalon Hill's Gods of Glorantha which mentioned Krjalki infesting the borders of the Ban.

Now to sus out the Bull Society in Seshnela...

Good:  Orlanth

Bad:  Argan Argar, Waha, 

Ugly: Gagarth, Maran Gor

16 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

I just read what may have caused the trama when I was a child: Each time you cast a spell from the eye, there is a 5 percent chance that Vecna tears your soul from your body, devours it, and then takes control of the body like a puppet.

Such a grisly fate can be avoided by using the eye as it was originally intended - by wearing Vecna's head. 

4 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

My main question relates to whether all Stormbullies in Prax & Sartar regions will always be psychopathic Chaos-hating berserkers... I haven't really seen anything yet that counters that idea.

Does the Prosopaedia have a lot more information about Bisos e al.? Because the links you've sent don't actually have much (usually, just a name)

(perhaps I should have posted this in the RQ thread, because of the other information I'd be after... such as a Rune spell list)

Bisos is remembered for defeating YarGan and sending the Blue People away.  His father is Tawars or KefTavar and his mother is Esus (think Zeus and Euopra).  Since Tawar is a Hsunchen God descended from Hikym and Storm Bull is the son of Umath and Mikyh, it's fair to state that they are the same.

The Entekosiad has a few things to say about Bisos, such as how he defeated the enemy god.

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But the enemy cheated, and with one step to the side he turned and thrust his spear deep through the bull's shoulders, pinning him to the ground. With his sharp knife, the foe cut Bisos' throat so his red blood spilled upon the courtyard. Then the mighty killer laughed, and rose, throwing his bloody knife to the side, and turned to the people of Bisos.

The people of Bisos waited, not fleeing, and they confronted their foe without fear or anger.

This puzzled the monster god. He looked upon their intent faces and asked, "What is the secret of this tranquility?" He was distracted. He did not see Bisos rise again from death, scarred but whole and alive.

Entekosiad p68

This seems similar to the Earthpower Runespell and so is apparently Bisos's runespell in action.  Now Bisos immediately does the same thing to his fallen foe:

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He said that his foe had been worthy, deserving more than eternal obscurity. Bisos took the unliving pieces of IvinZoraRu, and said that they would be worshipped as the god UpelviDedi5 and laid them upon the bare field. He got the Five Sheaves, the Four Supporters, the Eight Leaves, and the Seven Spices. These were used to make the body. He assembled them, and made UpelviDedi whole again.

Entekosiad p68

The action is repeated by his cult in history:

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When the Great Prophet (Carmanos - PHM) first revealed the Higher Truths of Idovanus, there was inevitably resistance from the entrenched priesthoods. The
bisosae summoned their own Great Bull, it to come down from heavens destroy the upstart. Instead, however; it was slain by the Prophet, proving that his Truths had the Mandate of Heaven. For a while the Bull God was confined in the Underworld, and his people subjected to abject servitude.

Entekosiad p73

This is illustrated with a relief of Mithras killing a Bull, the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauroctony

Then:

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[...] we see Bisos paying homage to Idovanus with Carmanos looking on. In return, Bisos has received the halo which is characteristic of Carmanian divinities. Bisos
was slain by Carmanos, who declared that Idovanus was above all other gods. Yet, when Carmanos was stymied by the powers of the Dark Gods, he used the "Dethronement of the Unjust" Rites. This action strengthened Bisos, for it was successful only because Bisos had first performed it. Empowered by the Prophet of Idovanus, Bisos rose and went to Carmanos, who saw thereby that even his own Highest God relied upon the other gods to do his work. At this, Idovanus blessed Bisos (and some others), as shown here. [snipped Lunar interpretation]

Entekosiad p75

So Bisos's runespell is the Dethronement of the Unjust in which the caster sacrifices himself for a greater victory.  Bisos is the sacrificial bull, so to speak.

I think Storm Bull's cult in Carmania and Seshnela is constrained by their submission to the Invisible God.  They still fight as typical bikies and berserks and when bereft of the civilizing influences of the Invisible God, rule as such (cf the Bull Shahs).

.

9 hours ago, SMM said:

I spotted that, but was wondering if perhaps the Enrovalini are now the Magicians with the Kachasti the Philosophers.

The Kachasti still have a Speaking Tour p93 so I doubt it.

9 hours ago, SMM said:

Another difference I found is for the Early Lesser Darkness map, where the description of The Ten Thousand Wondrous Isles (print p.91, PDF p.95) combines that for the Wondrous Isles with part of the Tadeniti from p.686 of the Guide. Any idea why the source for The Ten Thousand Wondrous Isles is "IM"? 

The Ten Thousand Wondrous Isles actually goes back all the way to Avalon Hill's RQ3 Book 5 (p237 combined rulebook and is mentioned as another name for the Eastern Isles.  In Revealed Mythology there are the Wondrous Islands, Tadeniti and the Vaybeti Islands (Map p8 - collectively labelled as the SW Islands or perhaps the 800 Islands, which in turn becomes another island group in the pdf edition map)).  Given that the God Learners misinterpreted the Stela Corpora to place the Heron Hegemony there, I think a similar misunderstanding has occurred in the How the Islands were Made myth to illuminate some shadowy corner of Glorantha.  Given that an invasion of beakies is mentioned in Malkioni mythology, it may be New Keetela (Revealed Mythologies p79)

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Kingdom of Logic
Also called the Kingdom of Logic, this peaceful and
undisturbed land is inhabited by six original tribes, which
include the boatpeople, the explorers, the makers, the
magicians, the philosophers, and the scribes. (RB, BB, SC)

Cults of Runequest: Mythology p88

The only change is that the Kachasti speakers are now the Magicians.

The six original peoples of Danmalastan are still there just under different names.  Thinobutu is now part of the Empire of New Serenity (which I suspect is a God Learner construct as the original sequence of events there is a mess).  Storm Age and Lesser Darkness have been interchangeable for some time although I like the Guide's interpretation that the Lesser Darkness was really the Late Storm Age.  The dating of events is largely one of style and interpretation methinks. 

I always used Yelmalions or Sun Domers.  But assholes works fine.  

Borists:  the reason that the Borists are called squids is that while conventional means of acquiring chaos features run the risk of turning the chaotic into a broo, the more rational Boristi version can turn the chaotic into an (intelligent) walktapus.