metcalph

13 minutes ago, Jens said:

There are people still living that met the Seven Mothers when they were human; some even saw them ascend. YT fought Humakt to prove his godhood, and Humakt is uniquely Hostile to 7M and no other cult. While some of those shenanigans may have happened with the same being in God Time, the Great Compromise would have to be frayed indeed for them to happen as they did WITHIN time. 

That doesn't prove anything.  Lhankor Mhy, Buserian and Chaquandarath have separate histories despite being the same god at some level.  Yanafal Tarnils fought Humakt?  Kargan Tor fought himself!  And saying that the Great Compromise would have to be frayed is nothing compared to what has been written about the Compromise when the Red Goddess proved herself ("The processes of the Lunar Way seemed to contradict the Great Compromise [...] It was like an amendment to the Great Compromise" Cults of Runequest: Mythology p17)

Just now, Jens said:

Those are fundamentally different examples. Buserian and Lhankor Mhy are names/masks/manifestations of the same divine entity. The Seven Mothers may have worshipped those other gods initially, but they transcended (or transgressed) that origin and became new gods in their own right. 

How do you know they aren't the same God within a different environment?  At times, Cults of Prax suggests they are.  

9 hours ago, Ian_W said:

The first mention of "Saint Orlanth" pretty much gives away the farm, to anyone who knows anything about Western and Lightbringer religion.

Even under the old terminology, Saints were humans who had discovered truths of the Invisible God.  Which kinda made the idea of a God being a Saint always sounding off.  

The Orlanthi would know that the Aeolians submit themselves to the will of their Sorcerors which makes them kinda sus.  Even though they insist they worship the same gods as the Orlanthi, they always keep their mouths clamped shut at places normal people would have no reason to.  

The Malkioni would know that the Aeolians submit themselves to the whims of their gods which makes them very suspicious.  Even though they insist they follow the Invisible God like other westerners, they indulge in the gods whereas other would restrain themslves.  

The Aeolians know that over the centuries, patient explanations of their faith have gotten them nowhere.  Thus they keep faith in their Gods and keep silent about them when among outsiders.  If they ever were to readily welcome strangers into their religion, it would take a hero to make the conceptual leap in their faith.  

As far as I can see it, the Aeolians acquire new followers by slow osmosis at the commoner caste.  An Aeolian family acquires a farm of Orlanthi.  Over the years one or two of them might make Aeolian observances to ingratiate themselves with their leaders.  

3 hours ago, Godlearner said:

Generally its not a problem, but what happens when a Buserian initiate walks into a Lhankor Mhy temple. Can he sacrifice for a spells which he normally not have access to? Would he use the same Worship. I am assuming yes to both.

Judging from the more common crossover examples of Lhankor Mhy -> Irrippi Ontor, Humakt -> Yanafal Tarnils and Issaries -> Etyries, the real problem isn't so much as the difficulty of doing so but the attitudes of your former colleagues after the event.

1 minute ago, Ian_W said:

Is there anything in canon about the followers of the prophet Aeol, and his views about the Lightbringers and so on being emenations of the Invisible God, trying to spread their faith ?

I'm specifically looking at whether they'd be doing this towards Barbarian Town and Prax in the pre-Hero Wars Third Age, when they appeared to have the Knight Fort on the east of the Stormwalk Mountains as a forward base.

Bonus points if someone can inform me what impact, if any, their beliefs had on Baboons.

Much of what Chaosium has written about the Aeolians is now post-canonical largely because the Malkioni themselves have changed.  Nowadays they aren't a missionary faith but they could have been in earlier ages.  

Knight Fort seems to have been established fairly recently and may or may not be populated by Aeolians at all.  I don't think anybody is brave enough to establish a forward base and the Aeolians don't seem to have the necessary troops (ie light cavalry) to make the base a success.  Since there are Aeolians in the Marcher County, the Baboons at Monkey Ruins and the outlaws at Exile Stead would be all to aware of them..  Whether a Baboon drank the Melo Yellow and tried to become an Aeolian is plausible - silly but plausible.

51 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

To add to the above discussion directly, especially about WAW - the dwarfs have a spell that enchants Iron so that it protects against criticals as well - thus, there's a precedent already in place for magic being able to do this (which is even less logical than excluding WAW or Shield/Protection from doing so).

But the Stabilize Iron exception is explicitly cited in the spell description whereas Ward Against Weapons has no such exception.  

"Lhankot Mhy" in Vormain:  I think because of its association with Vashanti and the Kralori Invasion, the cult is looked down upon as foreign.  Its worshippers are outcasts who collect lore about the world beyond Vormain.  They are consulted by pirates and despised by everybody else.

My impressions of the local Lhankor Mhy

• Buserian (Peloria)
• Chaquandarath (Eastern Isles) - Cults of Runequest Prosopedia p22
• Vashanti (Kralorela)
• Enroval (Malkioni)

The Safelstrans and Fonritans may have their own versions but no likely names have been listed so far.

I don't think Enroval is actively worshipped by the Malkioni.  Instead he is seen as the the founder of a Zzaburi specialization - theology or metaphysics.

I know Vashanti has different runes (Dragon and Truth) than the other forms of Lhankor Mhy but IMO the God Learners interpreted this as the Arachne Solara's Web which allowed them to place him within their monomyth.  The cult was split byby tensions between the Wise Ones and the Learners when Shang-Hsa ruled.  But as a result of the struggles at the end of the Age, the Vashanti (like other dragon cults) can only access Dragon magic through the rituals of Godunya.  Now they are a cult of administrators and bureaucrats.

5 hours ago, Darius West said:

According to the new Cults of RQ: Lighbringers on page 75, the Cult of Buserian is the same as Lhankor Mhy.  Apparently they aren't separate deities anymore.  The only difference is that Buserian is associated with the Yelm Pantheon, not the Lightbringers. Go figure.  I had always personally imagined them as being really quite different, with Buserian worshippers being deeply interested in filing systems and astronomy.

That means your LM Yelmalio can be a Buserian worshipper afaik.

The Knowing God has a number of different names from the Western Lands to the Eastern Isles, just like other big gods.  The relationship between Lhankor Mhy and Buserian is like Dendara and Ernalda.  They should *be* the same god but they resist attempts to make them so.

I really don't have a problem with the statement that Aram-ya-Udram was one of the founders of the EWF.  He could have returned again like Ironhoof does.  

24 minutes ago, Jens said:

Clearly Repair would do the trick as long as all the pieces are present 😉

Glue would be a more appropriate spell methinks

7 hours ago, Zalain said:

Hello all,

i got a player which chracater is an initiated of Yelmalio. The adventures put the group in a small city with several temples of wind gods (one of them is from Lhankor mhy).

Well this player, surprising all, (characters, players and gamemaster -me-), manifested being interested joining Lhankor Mhy cult.

i played this this way: At first, the chief of the temple decline him. FOr weraing weapons, armor, marks and symbol of sun cult, and arguing any warrior doesnt have ANY knowledge to contribute with. But (character) player replied about a couple of knowledge skills he has over 50%. He meet the requirements to join Lhankor Mhy cult, in addition of Yelmalio.

Both cults are Neutral.

i thought admit him, but not allowing (for faith issues) sorcery spells.

or should i keep negate him??

Lhankor Mhy has no problem with Yelmalions.  From the cult writeup p69 Cults of Runequest: The Lightbringers "They have no binding ties to any element and can advise Sun, Wind, Moon, or Earth with equal enthusiasm"  although I suspect "equal enthusiasm" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.  Yelmalions are forbidden sorcery according to the Well of Daliath but that's hardly a barrier to worshipping Lhankor Mhy.

26 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I don't think Yelmic Lhankor Mhy would have any more connection to Yelmalio than Lightbringer Lhankor Mhy does. Buserian is mostly a Dara Happan cult while Yelmalio is barely present there, so there might even be less of a connection.

Except that Yelmalio is present in Dara Happa.  From Cults of Runequest: Mythology p153-154

Darjiin 4%

Doblian 1%

Oraya 4%

Sylila 4%

There's always Buserian but I doubt there are any temples to him locally. 

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

does that mean you can embalm a body before the "not yet seven days death" and resurrect the cultist after that ?

The body has to be healed to positive hotpoints and embalming fluid in the arteries and the veins goes well beyond any lethal dose. 

16 minutes ago, Malin said:

Alright, my search skills have failed me, so I put my trust in the forums. And please, I am mostly asking for official facts, not how it is in your glorantha.

1. Do potatoes exist in Glorantha? I have seen it referenced in passing, but never as more than an aside in adventures.
2. Are potatoes mentioned in current Chaosium RuneQuest: Glorantha material or only in past editions and third-party materials?
3. Where is the origin of potatoes? Is one mentioned?
4. Are there any mythical connections? Is there a potato goddess like there is a grain goddess?
5. In fact, who is the goddess of root vegetables? Is that Asrelia's domain? Does she have a bunch of little "bulb babies" in her arms that she lets people pull up?
6. What is the distribution range for potatoes? Is it a Lunar thing? Pamaltea? Esrolia? Sartar?

No.  There was a mention of potato bread p40 and potatoes p54 in Cults of Prax but these have since been redacted.  

A Goddess of Edible Roots is Thilla (Cults of Runequest: Prosopedia p121).  There will probably be similar goddesses all over gloratha but they have less impact than the grain goddesses.  

3 minutes ago, Jens said:

Raises the interesting question of whether spirits can participate in worship ceremonies, and in particular contribute MP.

Ancestors can IIRC.

A simple plot device to cover up missing ducks would be to insist they had been killed in the Great Duck Hunt and furnish Lunar bounty records as proof.  Eye-witness testimony?  Good luck in finding a jury that will believe anything a duck says.

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

Why not? If a Yelmalian High Llama Rider, who cannot ride a horse due to taboos, gained a Kuschile Archery skill, why wouldn't it apply to a High Llama?

Because then he would be a really shit mounted archer compared to other high llama riders.

40 minutes ago, Agentorange said:

The Gloranthan bestiary  page 85 says of wolf brothers

"...Only  enchanted rune metals can harm them as well as magic. thus they will be fully affected by a Fireblade put on a Bronze weapon. "

But....both RQG core rules p262 and the RBOM say of fireblade "this damage cannot be magically resisted because it is real physical damage from the heat of the fire"

In other words the damage is NOT magical but just physical damage. So shouldn't wolf brothers be unaffected by Fireblade ?

Just play it so that the fireblade harms the Telmori despite the heat being non-magical and have the local Lhankoring Temple destroy themselves in an academic feud trying to resolve the matter.

I think speculation about how the Unholy Trio bought Wakboth into the world should take into account that Orlanth knows Wakboth long before his supposed birth (KoS, the chequered battle). 

Personally (and I have said this before), Wakboth's origins was probably described by an ancient poet as "Madness was his father, rape his mother and disease the midwife at his birth" with subsequent scholars taking the expression literally. 

SMM - The Dara Happans were purging their religion of Carmanian influences in the "Yelm is not that!" movement. A secondary wave of reformation "She is that" lead to the recognition of Daroria. 

On 11/20/2023 at 5:31 AM, SMM said:

Is Creator still part of the Lunar pantheon?

Under a new name:

Quote

Daroria is worshiped in the Lunar
Heartlands as the cosmological mother
who was the source of the entire
divine cosmos.

Prosopedia p28

2 hours ago, g33k said:

Maybe Storm Bull?  Does their "detect Chaos" ping on Gark-zombies & similar undead, but not ping on ZZ-zombies...?
 

Storm Bull is an associate of Zorak Zoran.  Looking at the Create Zombie spell in the Red Book of Magic p38, it has the runes darkness and death and the statement "Zombies do not have the spirit of the original owner bound to them; instead, they are mindless magical constructs, like animated skeletons." which is also how they are portrayed in the Bestiary.  

The description of Shun Mun in the Guide p572 - a city owned by Gark - describes the corpses as being animated p572 rather than as RW zombies.  However since Gark has the runes of Chaos, Harmony and Unlife, his priests (as opposed to his metabolically challenged rank-and-file) would register as chaotic.  

I've seen a statement, not in this thread, that Nontraya is nonchaotic.  Nontraya is described as chaotic in the Guide p706.  

24 minutes ago, g33k said:

Except that (rather confusingly) the Humakti seem to have no problem with ZZ-style "undead."
Somehow ZZ is doing something different.

I'm not sure that Humakti seem to have no problem with Zorak Zorani style undead since the two cults hate each other.