metcalph

26 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Would a dwarf soul go to the underworld and meet up with Daka Fal? If not, I don't see how there could be anything identical to Resurrection. (especially if, as asked above, dwarfs don't have souls (as humans consider them).

Dwarves don't have souls in the same way they do not have sexual differences.

26 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Dwarfs practice a type of sorcery, and there's no real good reason (actually, there is**... :p) for them not to be able to repair it using Maker Magic.

Using Maker Magic is an admission of defeat.  The Material World is the Highest Form of Reality and the other worlds are inferior worlds warped by rogue magics.  The Dwarves do not use Maker Magic to commune with the World Machine for they are in the World Machine every single day.  Instead they use Maker Magic because they are not totally of the World Machine and that their own Souls hold them back.  Maker Magic is a necessary recalibration of the Self rather than a vision of the Divine.

That said, there are many dwarves who have fallen into error and believe otherwise.  They are Perverts - Report Them.

26 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

(**however, there's the issue of 'growing' a new arm, which should be frowned upon, as going against makers... but, I suggest, there'd be similar magics that could attach an arm - but won't need to be from a fresh corpse - they could just make/shape one out of other substances - clay?? In Bestiary, it says that Jolanti get repaired the same way that weapons and armour are, so it wouldn't surprise me if the same is true for the dwarfs - ie, some sort of Repair spell... (which makes me wonder, since dwarfs don't use spirit magic, would a Repair spell work on them? Can they heal naturally??)

Dwarves can and do use Spirit Magic.  It's not Proper for them to do so.  Jolanti and Nilmergs are Tamestones which Dwarves would like to be but manifestly are not.  Repair spells do not work on their flesh.  There are artificial arms in Glorantha (Aruzban Ironarm although Greg once told me he thought his arms reached the ground).

Instead of regrow limb, the mostali would be more likely to surgically attach a spare limb from a fresh dwarf corpse.  If loses were particularly heavy, the limbs might be noticeable mismatched so you might see a dwarf with two right hands.  

Braindead dwarves have their brains scooped out and a special control module for a small nilmerg to operate as if it were a mecha.  The control units are expensive though and the dwarves use them only when a particular dwarf's body is reuired - ie it is one of the select few that can enter a magic vault.

I think that some iron dwarves take an alchemical conconction that turns them into a revenant (Bestiary p123).  These would be used to guard isolated places of critical importance.  

As for Dwarven Humakti, their name for the God is Iron.  

2 hours ago, Darius West said:

Zzabur is/was mortal.  We can be sure he broke caste, and used spells to increase his longevity.  Now, however he has been zapped out of existence along with Brithos since the Second Age.

Zzbur is a God who thinks he is mortal.  And I doubt he has broken caste or destroyed himself.

Probably Zzabur.

18 hours ago, svensson said:

@French Desperate WindChild @metcalph

And yet the tribes have consistently been portrayed in multiple editions as highly biased against horses and the people who ride them. Horse riders are singled out in raids, the horses themselves draw fire,

The canonical of contact between the Horse Riders (ie the party) and Praxian Horse Haters is the Borderlands scenario: To Giantland!  There the Praxians, miles away from the nearest US Calvary fort, do not immediately shoot our heroes and their mounts full of arrows and leave them to die in the Wastelands.    Instead they bar entrance to an oasis until the party can prove itself in a slanted contest.  Yes, the Praxians don't like horses in the same way that many Europeans do not like Russian Tanks but that hatred is not a visceral one overall.

18 hours ago, svensson said:

the PJs are written as having a tenuous perch at the edge of the Plains because of excessive raiding by all the Tribes.

I dunno where that comes from.  The Pol Joni live in the Good Place and the Better Place which are good grasslands and their hold is hardly tenuous.  

4 hours ago, Ian A. Thomson said:

Are Yanfali and Humakti Rune Lords expected to fight ritually whenever they meet?

My brain tells me that this is a thing. Yet another part of my brain says that i made it up

Was this ever a thing, am I extrapolating from some other ritual contest I once read about, or am I just making the whole idea up!!!! :)

CoR: the Lightbringers says "The two cults are respectful rivals of each other." p109.

The nearest example of a ritual combat from a rival cult comes from Trollpak p99

Quote

The high holy day of the [Zorak Zoran] cult is Darkday of Death week
of Dark season. On that day, cultists like to challenge lone
Humakti to single combat and then gang up on him for an easy kill.

12 minutes ago, svensson said:

As for 'The PJs don't care what the Praxian tribes think', I would think that the one thing the Bison and Sable tribes would agree on is ridding the Plains of the Non-Covenant heretics and their filthy beasts! Should that be the case, the PJs would be well-advised to find some sort of accommodation with the Tribes, or else their very existence would be in jeopardy.

The actual statement about Waha and Horses is "Waha dislikes horses, for they are animals of Yelm, the sun god, and are not of Eiritha." (CoR: the Lightbringers p143).  That's a long way from ridding the Plains of all horses.  

Edit: and the Pol Joni themselves have 7% Waha worshippers (CoR: Mythology p155), so the cult itself is somewhat flexible on the matter.

I kinda think that politics circa 1630 has been utterly changed.  Perhaps a good comparison might be Roman Britain before the legions left and afterwards.  Given that in 1620, the Trader Princes were being supplanted by Greymane, I don't think anybody is going to remember them circa 1630.  

The main change is that Harrek and his Wolf Pirates rule the seas.  There's going to be loads of Wolf Pirates (think Sea People invasion) at the coastal ports, not just Yggites but also Quinpolics, Teshnans, Umathelans, Fonritans, Masloi and Teleosans.  All of them are seeking to make a name for themselves and quite of few of dreams of becoming a king of someplace.

Caladraland with its shitty coastline will be less vulnerable to Wolf Pirate raids than elsewhere BUT it also has the largest collection of diamonds in Glorantha.  So there's no way the Wolf Pirates are going to pass this up.  They will have likely seized Porthomeka and are using it as a base for sending epic armies into Caladraland.  I think by 1630, the low temple will have been besieged several times and sacked once but the High Temple and its treasury lies out of reach.

Given that the High King was a creature of Belintar, I really don't have much hope of its survival around 1630.  The High King with his crown was probably killed in battle and his head made into a drinking cup.  Power has instead become centered into the Dual Priesthoods - the civilized priests of the Volcano Twins and the savage priests of the Vent.  The main army of Caladraland is not the tribal militia but ironically bribed wolf pirates and prisoners-of-war recruited into fighting for the two Priesthoods.  With the demise of the High King, the local tribes are pretty much independent.  They do send their best fighters to fight for the Dual Priesthoods in return for access to worship at their temples but do so largely as skirmishers and raiders.  There's no sense of a larger country to fight and die for nor are they as daft to go fighting toe-to-toe with the Wolf Pirates.  Also assisting the Dual Priesthood is Gemborg in return for a steady supply of oil and coal.  Their aid probably comes in the form of iron weapons, and siege engines flinging disorder kegs and chained shot.  

Rhigos has probably been smart and paid hefty tribute to the Wolf Pirates in return for independence.  They would still have gangs of Wolf Priates doing pub crwals and the like.  

9 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The Wasp Riders are not part of the Kitori, and I think are generally considered neutral at best, and often foes. (I picture the wasps raiding and attacking Kitori beetle larva for food.)

I really don't see how the Wasp Riders could be foes to the Kitori considering their location.  The only people they are said to be hostile to are the (obscure)  Bee People of the Holy Country (KoS p86).  And why would they need to raid the Kitori when the latter could quite easily give them beetle larva via other means?

Most of the information about the Kitori comes from:

Quote

The Kitori tribe in the Troll Woods of the Holy Countrypeculiar one, for it includes a troll part and a human part, each equal to the other, though they do not interbreed like foul tusk riders. Many, both troll and human, think the Kitori take the Argan Argar ideals to excess, but outside opinions will not change the tribe’s ways.

Trollpak p52

There's also the Become Other runespell (Red Book of Magic p16) which for 3 points allows someone to change from troll to human (or vice versa) up to half a day.  

I imagine they have separate clans with the human clans worshipping Argan Argar and Ernalda and the Troll Clans worshipping Argan Argar and Kyger Litor.  Judging by how the Kitori have treated their human neighbours over the centuries, their human  members identify as Kitori more strongly than they would as Orlanthi.  I think the human clans are paired with a shadow clan of trolls with the local Argan Argar cult providing common clan leadership.  

.As for how the Kitori are encountered in the field, they might have mixed contingents  with human pike and troll skirmishers.  They may have access to the Wasp Riders who live in their lands and whose relationship with the Kitori is unclear.  The Wasp Riders would worship Gorakiki-Wasp which would be associated with Argan Argar - so are they part of the Kitori, allies or what?

14 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

If one happens to awaken a certain demi-goddess from a certain published scenario, and marries that demi-goddess (even if it's only a year marriage), would that not make them an Heir of Vingkot? Certainly their child would be... no??

The demigoddess was a wife of Vingkot and a daughter of Tada.  This is not normally thought to make one an heir although William the Conqueror did try a similar argument.

A semi-serious post which was provoked by a recent thread about the Engrioni (wot Greg used to call the knights and the Men-of-All).

Cults of Runequest: Mythology p100 states that Malkion "was Pure Reason within the Perfect City but came
forth to descend into the material world".  Wot Hrestol and subsequent followers were doing was to reverse that descent so that they might rise towards Pure Reason.  Since the Malkion knew the entirety of the Law in teaching others of Caste, the Men-of-All hope to Ascend by combining all Castes within themselves.

How this might work is increased Rightness gains per caste mastered (instead of 1, you might get 2-4) but the downside would also be larger.

Can't find an online image but if you have seen Dune 2, there's an excellent shot of a gladiatorial arena in the Kingdom of Ignorance operating under the Black Sun.

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Vargast has a lot of expensive stuff on him, worth well in excess of his ransom value.

In RW terms, this would be known as negative equity.  Clearly Vargast has made some bad decisions in his past.

The biggest and best border control method for Tarsh is the Glowline.  I dunno if intrusions into the glowline can be magically sensed but there could be a detachment of Lunar magicians at the Temple of the Reaching Moon using their spirits to watch the border.  They would also have Moonboats to provide troops at short notice.    The formal points of entry into Tarsh from the south would be lightly guarded, not because the Lunars have nothing to fear but because they can retaliate effectively.

Beyond the Glowline, the Lunars simply have not bothered.  The land is largely conceded to their neighbours such as the Shaker Temple and the Grazers.  Constructing a foward defence or forts and customs points in those lands is more trouble than it is worth.  They may have a consulate in North Post to allow prospective visitors to purchase a magical totem for trouble free passage beyond the glowline.  But in terms of the Bush Range, the Shaker Temple or the Red Dragon Valley, it's largely "Don't Care".

I suppose if you want to keep something from the Wolf Pirates, they might feel entitled to a reduction in the ransom offered and then go after you to retrieve the item that you took.

9 hours ago, Ironwall said:

Thanks for the answers theyve helped a lot but now i have another question. Where does Ehilm and Galanin fit into the ralian orlanthi pantheon. I take it they are local variants/replacements of Yelm and Yelmalio. There is also an extinct sundome if I remember correctly is the more mainstream Yelmalio cult still in Ralios?

Until the Solar Book comes out, we have to make do with inferences from the Prosopedia.

EHILM:  Doubled Fire Runes.  p33 "Among the Orlanthi of Ralios and Fronela, Ehilm is the Sun God".

GALANIN:  Doubled Fire Runes.  Beast. p42 "(T)he Sun Horse, who carries the solar disk Ehilm across the Sky Dome"

I would suggest that Ehilm's cult is Solar worship mounted to the cult of Galanin.  Most worshippers are simply initiates of Galanin with horse-riding magics.  The rune levels among them can become initiates of Ehilm with access to his fiery magics.  They wouldn't have Sunspear (as that seems to be a Dara Happan thing)

FWIW something else that I noticed:

GAMARA: No runes given.  "She  is depicted as a horse pulling a chariot with the solar disk" p43.

YU-KARGZANT:  Fire.  Life.  Death p141 "Yu-kargzant is depicted as a solar disk surmounted atop a golden horse."

It seems to me that the Pure Hose People were influenced by the God Learners when they were allies in Prax and that's how they made the transition from their God is the Sun Disk drawn by a chariot to their God is a Sun Disk atop a Horse.  The Life/Death duality in the Grazeland cult might be the result of their adoption by Ironhoof

In terms of religion:

Delela has more beast cults (like Yinkin, Storm Bull and Odayla).  There would also be some Draconic mystery cults floating about the region (perhaps known as Drolgard - King of Sartar p123).  Instead of Yelmalio, they would worship Ehilm (although there is a Yelmalion temple near Karia p397).  

Lankst would be more influenced by lowlanders although they would avoid Arkati mystery cults and Wizards.  Their religious practices might be closer to what the God Learners taught rather than what the Heortlings follow.

Naskorion are Orlanthi heavily influenced by Darkness.  Argan Argar is prominent here and Arkat lurks behind the local Zorak Zoran cult.

5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I desperately tried to find what languages the Ralian Orlanthi speak, without success (even after writing to ask Jonas Schiött).

Anyone have any thoughts there? How many different languages between them (and what names - I was just boring and went with Lanksting and Delelan), related in what ways to the Central Genertelan ones, do they originate in Stormspeech the same way?

Both Lankst and Delela speak Theyalan languages (Guide p387 and p393) and be related to Stormspeech.  The standard assumption is that they speak dialects in the same Ralian language family.  If you are feeling adventuros, you could have the Lanksti speak a dialect of Talastari (since most of their settlers would have come from there) while Delela would speak a language closer to Old Pavic (to reflect its EWF-friendly history).  The Lankst would have a lot of Safelstran lingo while the Deleans would be influenced by the Husnchen.  

8 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

So where do the Ralian Orlanthi come from Mythically. Additionally what are the religious and cultural differences from the more known Heortling Orlanthi.

There's two waves.

The first wave was from the Vingkotlings in the Storm Age who liberated the locals from the Dwarves.  They are now the Safelstrans.

The second wave was historical during the World Council period and settled both the north and west.  They are now the people of Lankst and Delela.  There's been speculation that the Lankst and Delelans have differences between themselves but I think that's largely from the natives they loved among.

The only thing that makes me pause is that the cover piccie of the Lunar Book has not been released yet... 

10 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

Hello all

is there a RQG book (already written or planned) describing what is draconic way(s) for human being in dragon pass ?

rules + background.

There isn't.

The best way to handle it IMO would be get the Dragonewt Magic from the RuneQuest Glorantha: Bestiary p42 to P43 and use them to as Runespells.  Yes, the Dragonewts don't use Runepoints in their rune magics, Yes some Dragonewt spell effects last a lot longer than 15 minutes, but the human version of their magic would use both because they are using inferior spiritual senses.

The runic affinity in the Dragonewt Rune would be one's Spoken or Written Auld Wyrmish*.  Beaked Warrior magics require a minimum of 25% Auld Wyrmish to learn or cast.  Tailed Priest magics require 50%.  Full Priestly magic requires 75% and Draconic Illumination (which is based on the number of times you've spoken to a dragon).

*Spoken Draconic Magic is simple enough.  Written Magic requires the Magicians to make the required writing either on the ground or magically summoned lines of force (a la Doctor Strange).  There's also magical surgery but Draconic Magicians need that like another hole in the head.

14 hours ago, Snugz said:

Weird question: if you looked up in a fairly open space in Gloranthan Hell, would you see stars?

i.e. dead, weakly glimmering  stars in the Underworld "sky" (upper Underworld or something)?

Maybe former Sky Realm stars; or parodies/nightmares of them?

The stars could be the spirits of the inhabitants of the mundane cities - orange for storm, yellow for solars, red for moon etc. 

1 hour ago, davecake said:

I definitely don’t share this feeling. We’ve known the Praxians, a very anti-Chaos culture, will use broo as mercenaries. A temporary alliance with Chaotic beings for pragmatic reasons does not seem to make you Chaotic. I think Chaotic taint is a personal thing from personal acts. 

The action being disputed as to chaoticness is praying to Malia to avoid further suffering from the disease while exposing others to the same disease.  The "involuntary initiate" even sacrifices 2 points of permanent POW in the Cults of Terror rules and can become a voluntary initiate by simply seeking out a disease master.  That seems to me quantitatively different from making an alliance with Broos and more like accepting a Chaos Gift from the Lunars.  

27 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

In RQ3, Become [Other Shape] was a Trickster spell (Gods of Glorantha: Cults Book, p. 71) — or rather a set of Trickster spells, one per shape. I don’t know whether this is carried over into RQ:G.

It's the spell just above Become Other in the Red Book of Magic and is mentioned in the Eurmal writeup in Cults of RuneQuest: the Lightbriners at p56