M Helsdon

It should also be in the recent RQ2 reprint. I typed it in for Rick.

Vanntar appears to be a special case - and it is also very new. It's organization seems more like Sparta than other more established Sun Dome Temples, in that it has around two thousand initiates, who are formed into two regiments, one of which is available for hire, whilst the other ensures the helots don't run away or revolt. Other Temples seem to have a larger population base, and probably no large numbers of helots.

Concur. Most, but not all Sun Dome temples in the Lunar provinces provide mercenary regiments to the Provincial Army; based on the location of some, they may combine their available troops to field a regiment which is probably provided in lieu of tax, tithes and tribute. I believe that Harald has said that the temple in Imther musters a regiment for the king (in lieu of tax?) who prefers to sent them to the Provincial Army instead of warriors of his own tribe. The farmers will serve in the militia, and some will probably either join the Temple professionals by choice or be selected. The period of service in a Templar regiment appears to be about 20 years, and I would suspect that after that time, the retired Templar either gets a land grant, or is retained to be a trainer.

You are using your definitions at maximum extent. Such a broad brush conveys a washed out color. For Hill Barbarians, most of the Orlanthi of Saird, Tarsh, and Sartar are, in historical terms, heavily urbanized. They are only barbarians in the eyes of their enemies. In general terms, the Orlanthi demonstrate distinct jumps in social organization and complexity, having the stages: clan, tribe, city confederation, state (ruled by a high king/prince). Whilst you can find examples of each type in the 'Barbarian Belt' most in Dragon Pass are at the highly organized/urban stage. I'm sorry, but again that's combing three very different styles of fighting into one. Greek phalanxes were notorious for only having limited articulation: the Spartans and Thebans were among the best but it was severely limited. The Macedonian phalanx was better (but declined during the period of the Successors) because the phalangites had intensive training. The Greek phalanxes at Marathon demonstrated not a capability to manoeuver, but its lack. Their line was stretched to be longer than the Persian line, and when the two met and the Persian flanks collapsed inevitably the Greek flanks converged inwards where the Persians were being more successful. No complex manoeuver: just a very limited battlefield where the Persians could not employ their archers and cavalry, and their infantry were not equipped for close-in shock combat. The Greeks were very lucky that the Persians chose an unsuitable beachhead and didn't have time to reach better ground. In many ways the Sun Dome culture is a fusion of Dara Happan and Storm, but - their style of fighting is very different (yes, they both fight in phalanxes) but their weapons and shields are as different as the Macedonian and the Greek (until late on the Greeks created phalangites). There are about 1000 members of the Yelmalio cult amongst the Aldachuri, most of them belonging to the Vantaros tribe. Some 40% of all adult men of the Vantaros belong to the cult of Yelmalio, concentrated in three clans. The Yelmalio cult is the largest disciplined military force in the Far Place and is under the direct military command of the cult’s Light Captain. As a result, even though the Yelmalions are outnumbered nearly seven to one by Orlanth cultists, they have managed to obtain ascendancy through their military heft (and with plenty of support from their Lunar allies). The important thing to take note of is disciplined, which denotes an organized formation, and given the contact with the Golden Spearman cult to the north can only be a battle hedge or basic phalanx. If you read up on citizen-soldier phalanxes, you'll find that the majority of men forming the phalanx had very minimal training; most city-states put more emphasis on general physical conditioning than the development of military skills. Pretty much. Not entirely dissimilar to the ones the Zulus used. The Greek spear was about 2-3m long. Mercenaries made a great deal more money. The Sicilian debacle demonstrates the lack of professionalism of the Athenian citizen-soldiers and their amateur generals. Any good history book on warfare should make it clear that phalanx (which in the original Greek simply means battle formation) is a very basic formation. One is even depicted in Sumerian art. It is also worth noting that the equipment of a hoplite wasn't a Greek invention: the helmets display Urartuan influence, whilst their round shield may display some Neo-Assyrian influence (there's evidence of Greeks serving as mercenaries in the Neo-Assyrian army). For a basic (very basic) overview, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx#History You've used an enormous wordage simply because I referred to a trade route, not ever claimed as a major route. For a brief overview of phalangite and hoplite: A Comparison of Hoplite and Phalangite Phalangites often wear lighter armor than hoplites, with only the officers and front rank wearing bronze cuirasses. Their shields are a little smaller than standard hoplite shields, lacking the wide rim. However, given the weight of the sarissa, the overall load of their equipment is comparable to that of a hoplite. The hoplite holds the spear in one hand, whilst the phalangite must use both hands. In battle the sarissa is held near the butt-end and the phalangite puts their full strength into a two-armed thrust. The hoplite uses a shorter spear, held near the middle, and can only thrust with one arm. Their posture differs: a hoplite in the front rank takes a frontal or three-quarter stance, striking from behind or above their shield; a phalangite, holding his sarissa in both hands must stand side-on. This affects their minimum spacing. A hoplite in close order requires a space approximately a meter wide to fight effectively (with a width of 60 cm the absolute minimum); a phalangite about half a meter; this is reflected by the diameter of their shields. A machairaphoroi, thrusting with a sword, requires a spacing of 90 cm, and at least 1.2 meters if throwing a spear and slashing with a sword. In the front ranks, the hoplite can hold the spear over- or underarm (but usually the former), but the phalangite in the front ranks wields the pike at roughly waist height, in part due to the shield slung on one arm, and because of the length and weight of the sarissa. This means that unlike hoplites, phalangites cannot interlock their shields, and their file spacing must accommodate the sarissae extending from the ranks behind them. When a sarissa-phalanx engages a spear-phalanx, the hoplites are at a disadvantage. They cannot reach their opponents until they have avoided at least five spearheads. If an enemy can get through to the first rank of the sarissa-phalanx, its length means the sarissa cannot be used in close-in combat. The phalangite must either rely on a comrade in a rank behind them to hold off the foe, or defend themselves by dropping the pike and drawing a sword. For an illustration of the different spears (non-canonical):

Yelmalions are Orlanthi? Well, they were... thus all the tension between Yelmalio worshippers and Orlanthi. Um, shield-walls can move (forward), until they lock shields. A phalanx is a shield-wall; historically the term for a shield-wall phalanx of spears was a battle hedge. Pedantism. Not hillfolk in culture or manner of warfare. Unfortunately I cannot perceive your previously unstated assumptions. Yelmalion militia will fight in files (see the description of Far Place Yelmalions in WF#15). You need to read up on phalanx warfare. A disorganized phalanx is useless, but a phalanx can be organized with minimal training. You are confusing a phalangite phalanx with a hoplite phalanx, which uses a much shorter one-handed spear and a different shield. Far less precision, which is why it could be adopted as a formation by barely trained citizens. A basic phalanx is a shield-wall with spears. Not like the Greek, which weren't professional, unless they were mercenaries (who mostly served abroad where the pay was better) or Spartans but part-time citizen-soldiers. The Greek city-state phalanxes were basically formed of militia. You believe there is hardly any transit trade, but that isn't a fact.

There's quite a bit of overlap between the Solar and Storm pantheons: Chalana Arroy/White Lady, Rigsdal/Polaris, and perhaps Yelmalio/Elmal, and probably others as well. The pantheons as viewed by the two human cultures are distinct in outlook (Solar: hierarchal leaders, Storm: chosen leaders)... but then both cultures may only perceive aspects of their deities, not the entirety, because the gods are just so big...

Both Greek hoplites (Athenian, Spartan, Theban etc.), Macedonian phalangites and Roman legionaries (both pre- and post-Marius) are way outside of the "Bronze Age" envelope. However, Glorantha has hoplites, phalangites, and even soldiers who fight a little like legionaries (though not in cohorts or maniples). In fact the presence of regimental units is distinctly not Bronze Age, except perhaps in Bronze Age China. If you think the Greek hoplites were an urban landowner class, you really need to read up on the topic. I'm not particularly interested in a is Glorantha Bronze Age or not debate, when it comes to military matters, because it's the sort of absolutist pedantism that contributes nothing to the world or its discussion -- but I would note that in the Bronze Age Near East, soldiers were mostly recruited from the rural populations around a urban center, because most of the urban centers simply weren't that big. Hillfolk? Yelmalio Temples are mostly located to defend lowland farmers, at least in Saird, Vanntar and Prax. Yelmalion militia in any significant battle fight in their files and half-files, alongside other militia files, in a phalanx. That's a very different topic, as there are Yelmalions out in the wilds who would not fight in a phalanx. In such areas, they are more likely to fight as skirmishers: as archers and javelin throwers, but I'm not referring to the Yelmalions in Far Place. Actually, a basic phalanx requires relatively little training. Most Greek hoplites (other than the Spartans and those who made a career as mercenaries overseas where the pay was much better than being a mercenary in Greece) underwent very little training compared with later phalangites and legionaries. What it needed was for every man to know his place in the file, he has neighbors to either side in their files, and the formation has strong cohesion moving forward or engaged. it's one of the reasons why a phalanx is a very basic formation, probably going back to the earliest citizen-soldier armies in Sumer. If flanked or pushed back a phalanx was in trouble, and it took the Greeks some nasty lessons to realize the benefits of light infantry and cavalry - there always were poorer (who fought as skirmishers) or richer (who could afford a horse and its upkeep) but neither were major components of polis warfare, until relatively late. In the canon Gloranthan army lists you will find hoplites (but not in the sense of Greek citizen-soldiers, but professionals), phalangites, peltasts and hypaspists (the latter not in the Homeric sense but in the Macedonian). The flow will be sufficient to wash debris out of the marsh; it may be last year's (or the year before that) flotsam, but it will still be a hazard. If you've seen a dead tree swept downstream (and there are surely plently of those in the Upland Marsh) you'd know just how dangerous they can be. And such a flood will take weeks to dissipate. You've just proven my point. Yet Vanntar lies upon a trade path (in your terms B roads). Caernarfon and Bangor connect to the M1 by the A55 which is mostly a dual carriageway...

Oh dear. They become Templars after being recruited. The recruits will mostly be drawn from the militia, who live in the surrounding rural areas. In the Ancient World, rural recruits were often preferred over urban recruits, as being tougher and more resilient. Probably correct, save for officers. The Templars are phalangites... Militia training by spearmen has to involve training in basic formations. The militia don't just patrol and train, but are a likely source of auxiliaries. A hoplite or phalangite phalanx is very vulnerable on its flanks, and these are usually protected by lighter armed troops. Serving in the militia is a training step to becoming a phalangite, providing basic training. Each militia unit consists of files (even their patrols are formed of files and half-files), and in wartime they form a citizen levy which fights in a phalanx, probably deployed upon the flanks of the phalangite phalanx, or, for those who are archers, as skirmishers. When the Creek-Stream River is in flood after the thaw, whilst it will be a trade route downstream (with some additional risks as there will be flotsam being washed downstream), upstream travel will be much more difficult and very slow. Early in the season, road travel north will be more practical. Road usage will vary by season. You are assuming that travel conditions are not affected by weather or season. Karse has quite a hinterland, and as noted above, travel conditions are not a constant.

But not what you said... Do you believe that all the phalangites mustered at Vanntar or Goldedge live in those places? Most recruits will be drawn from the surrounding rural clans. Please note: I said a trade route... There's more than one route, and the route trade takes very much depends on where you are coming from. Vanntar isn't far from a Royal Road heading to Karse using trade paths (running via Centaur Cross to Whitewall), and sits on an alternative route, requiring transshipment across the Mirrorsea.

Vanntar is astride a trade route to Nochet, and given the migration and increase in the population of the city since the Opening, it isn't surprising that many Yelmalions have found there way there in sufficient numbers to populate the part of the city known as Little Vanntar. The position of the temples in Ralios and Fronela mark borders where the Templars were employed and have found employment since the First Age. They probably differ significantly in traditions and culture from the more central temple cities, but such survivals aren't improbable... Whilst many of the Alexandrias founded by Alexander in the east didn't last very long in some cases, they left a cultural and religious imprint that lasted a very long time.

In Kerofinela, the cities/temples of Goldedge and Vanntar raise regiments of phalangites: Goldedge raises one regiment which serves in the Tarsh Provincial Army; Vanntar supports two regiments - one available for mercenary hire, and the other overseeing the Ergeshi helots. These regiments wear lacquered leather/linen armor (which happens to be what most Macedonian phalangites wore: a linothorax of linen or composite manufacture is sufficient). Officers might wear bronze...

A number of terrestrial sun gods weren't just associated with the Sun, but with Venus (as the bright morning and evening star, not as the planet associated with Aphrodite, Venus, Ishtar etc.) This is a parallel with Lightfore which Greg doubtless knew of.

Raiding the neighbors of their cattle (and horses, sheep, etc.) is a respectable tradition. Killing is not, because it leads to blood feuds.

The Yelmalio cult is primarily native to the region just north of Dragon Pass - the portion of southern Peloria called Saird. For centuries, Saird has been the scene of both conflict and synthesis between the Storm and Solar cultures, so in that region except in the purely Orlanthi territories (and many kingdoms are mixed) Yelmalio is the Sun God of the uplands. The conversion in the Far Place and then Sartar was driven by Elmal worshippers going north to find help in fighting trolls (they came back with the Golden Spearman) and then a schism aided by Lunar interference, was instrumental in the reintroduction of Yelmalio into Sartar. In other regions beyond Saird and Monrogh's influence, there hasn't been a schism and the Elmal cult retains its original position, and no conversion.

A bit like the real world, where there were numerous sun-gods and goddesses - a subset of just the European ones: Alaunus, Albina, Alectrona, Apollo, Aurora, Belenos, Dažbog, Eos, Helios, Hors, Neaera, Neto, Saulė, Sól, Sunna, Thesan, Usil. 8-)

You have to dam the river first. From ancient Egyptian tomb painting we know they hunted hippos using a javelin or harpoon with a detachable tip to which a rope was tied; many such strikes were needed to seriously injure and kill the animal; the ropes meant that the hunter both retained the tips if they became dislodged (metal blades were expensive) and kept hold of the animal if they weren't. It was a slow and dangerous business, waiting whilst it bled out and tried to kill you. And this wasn't a task performed by an individual - you need others to distract the hippo and to also harpoon it. http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=157951&partId=1&searchText=copper+egypt+predynastic&page=2

Both the worshippers of a Second Age Yelmalio.

"In this area, I can see these thrown spears probably being used against crocodiles, hippos, or some other big animal that one could get close to with boats," Shea said. Speculation: note the probably. Hunting hippos from boats with javelins would be a good way of ensuring your genes are not propagated. Hippos are notoriously bad tempered and deadly. Only slightly safer to hunt crocodiles, especially as the boat (for which there is no evidence) might be no more than a flimsy raft.

RuneQuest Glorantha: Sun Dome Temple Culture/Religion: Heortling/Yelmalio (Sartar) Sun County Culture/Religion: Old Pavic/Yelmalio (Prax) Compare with: Pavis Culture/Religion: Heortling/Orlanthi

The Air Gods are the progeny of Umath, who was the result of the union of Ga and Aether. Copper is the metal of Earth and Tin is the metal of Sky, and their union resulted in Bronze. This is the mythic explanation of why copper and tin (even though not the same as the terrestrial metals) can be alloyed to make bronze.

Not exactly a battlefield weapon but a close-in hunting javelin. You gets what you pays for. If I were a peltast, I'd want a javelin with some range and penetrating power. In our ancient world, the most effective and strongest javelins were made from coppiced wood, which required long-term resource management. Making a javelin from split wood will provide you with an inferior javelin.

Only if it is mined as bronze. In Glorantha, bronze can be made by mixing tin and copper (or the Gloranthan analogues).

I suspect that Bronze made as an alloy of tin and copper might (but it takes a very long time - I have a piece of late Roman bronze and it hasn't corroded - yet, and the chemical breakdown depends very much on chemical composition of the soil), but iron rusts (it would be logical for the dwarves to sell iron to humans with this inbuilt design flaw).

Unfortunately the majority of Near Eastern (including Assyrian) bronze arrowheads suffer from extensive bronze disease corrosion (cuprous chloride in the copper alloy reacts with water to create hydrochloric acid which eats away at the bronze, and in turn reacts with the copper, ultimately resulting in a covering of green fuzz). After many centuries the original state of the head cannot be accurately assessed. Iron arrowheads rust, with a similar outcome. It is rare to find an ancient bronze or iron arrowhead in good condition, unless it is recovered from a very dry environment. Most of the ancient arrowheads you see on sale aren't very ancient.

Interesting, thank you.