M Helsdon

9 minutes ago, Joerg said:

So, do I have a problem that we find no sorcerous magic in the cult of Issaries? Not really. He probably traded it away.

I wouldn't be too surprised if some special Issaries magic was originally sorcerous in nature: Lock, Spell Trading, Path Watch, Create Market all seem likely candidates, but especially Spell Trading.

The Trade Rune certainly might embody the Combine/Separate aspects of sorcery.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

But note how the Speaking Folk and the Book Folk of Danmalastan disappears from the protection of Zzabur, and how we find a Speaking God and a Knowing God joining forces with a certain Storm God.

The origins (and usage?) of Tradetalk by the Theyalans and the Malkioni (via Jrustelan influence?) is an interesting aspect as well.

12 hours ago, Pentallion said:

Cross breeding elementals to make a more powerful strain of god?  Please, tell me more.

You must read the full Xeotam Dialogues in addition to the portion quoted. There's more in Revealed Mythologies - Stafford Library volume VI and a little in The Middle Sea Empire, volume VIII. As I understand it, as the powerful elementals interbred, they mixed their essences and powers to exhibit new capabilities.

However, whilst the Malkioni evolution and devolution of the descendants of the Erasanchula True Beings into the Burtae Mixed Deities is a convincing model, personally I'm not entirely convinced it is the entire story. The conflicting Theistic, Mystic and Animalist demonstrate it isn't the only, and not necessarily, the correct version (but then, the contradictory in-world sources make Glorantha more... real). For example, it is possible to be God Learnerish and identify, for example, Besos, Urox and Storm Bull as the same god, but even if they are one-and-the-same, it is probable that their Runes differ: I don't know what the Runes of Besos are, but I suspect they aren't Air and Eternal Battle.

2 hours ago, aumshantih said:

I'm intrigued by this story you mention of Brithini waking up animal people.   Where can one find it?

I'm having difficulty finding the reference, but in the Guide you'll find that Brithini consider themselves the only True Men (pages 108, 215) and abhor intermarriage with outsiders, considering it akin to bestiality (page 407).

Additional - still looking through books, but the distinction between the True/Original People and the animal people is given here:

“Are all races of mortals or Men of the class of Ifaldor?” asked Aanor.

“Not all,” replied his Master. “Most inhabitants of the world are of the race known as Hsunchen. This is the reason for the similar dialects between the savage, animalistic races of the world. Only when the race is of the Ifaldori lineage does the language differ, for each type of Srvuali has its own tongue which it passes onto any which may be descended from it.”

“What’s the origin of the Hsunchen?”

“In the language of the Kralori, the word means Children-of-Animals. The various nations of the Hsunchen are all descended from some animal god or another, with one of the parents of the race being of another class of god.”

“Then that’s the reason the Jonatings of the north are called the Bear-People?”

“Yes. In fact, before the War of the Gods most of the Surface World was people by the pure races of the Hsunchen. There were Goat-People, Horse-People, Cat-People, Bull-People, and many others. But due to the influences of the War of the Gods and the War with Chaos the nations mingled, losing their brotherhoods with the animals. To my knowledge, the Jonatings of the north have lost most of their form communication with the bears; the Basmoli Lion-People of the Mislari Mountains to the south have retained their brotherhood with their beasts but have fallen in savagery; the Pralori of the south have retained their brotherhood with their beasts, but much less than they were; and the winged Vrimaki of the farthest east have retained their kinship with their bird king brothers; are the only remaining Hsunchen whose strains are unpolluted enough to claim direct blood relationship to the beasts, although there may be others in the world I have not heard of.”

“What advantage does this kinship have, other than that they may sometimes communicate directly with the animals? It would seem to me that the intermingling of the races would strengthen the races of men, just as cross-breeding between Elementals made a more powerful strain of god.”

“Not so. When the men could talk with the animals they could also talk more easily with their god ancestors, thus gain Power from these gods with ease. Their magic was strongest when they kept their lineages pure. This is evident now, for the Brithini and Tamali, whose blood has been kept relatively pure over the ages either through isolation, as with the Brithini, or fear of association by other races, as with the Tamali, are the most powerful races on earth as far as communication with their ancestors goes.”
http://www.glorantha.com/docs/xeotam-dialogues/

39 minutes ago, aumshantih said:

It seems to me that the Bisosae of Pelanda lost their Hsunchen nature in the God-Time.   

 

If the Brithini story of them 'waking up' the animal people to become 'human' is true, then the majority of humans in Glorantha, or at least Genertela are descended from Hsunchen? If true, then the majority of Orlanthi, as an example, are ex-Hsunchen.

It is purely my speculation that the Bull God of the original Tawari may have been Urox, simply wearing a different mask. For example, according to one story Urox's minotaur offspring inherited their bull's head from their father, and their human body from a daughter of Uleria. Another has the minotaurs the offspring of Urox and Eiritha. Hmm, I wonder if Eiritha is related in some way to the Cow Goddess, Esus?

And given how the Bisosae retained their bull-riding and cattle-herding ways they didn't lose all the trappings of their Hsunchen ancestors.

The Westerners described any creature they were unfamiliar with as krjalki, so labelling the Tarjinian Bull as a Chaos Monster might indicate it was only alien to them.

The Tawari may have been driven out or exterminated in Fronela, but they have descendants elsewhere, as the Bisosae of Pelanda, who came from the south according to the Entekosiad, certainly had descendants. And if this is so, then the Tawari's Bull God might be related to Bisos, also known as Urox and Storm Bull. The Tarjinian Bull may not have been a Chaos monster?

That would be the Carmanians: they even had a shah.

;-)

There's no "major fortress" on recent maps; there seem to be numerous lesser fortresses throughout Marcher County.

I suspect any definitive answer is going to have to await the Holy Country book.

According to the map on page 246, Guide to Glorantha, that isn't so.

Bandori is clearly stated  in the text as Esvularing, but even the Brithini city of Refuge in Bandori is not Esvularing, though allied with them, and is described as part of God Forgot. Marcher County is not described as Esvularing.

Knight Fort appears to be one of many such fortifications in Marcher County, built to defend the Holy Country from Praxian Raids. Marcher County has a population of around twenty thousand, and lies within the 'province' of God Forgot; the military of this region consist of well armed members of the soldier caste, the Horali. They rely upon crossbows and disciplined formations, and fortifications. God Forgot is inhabited by people who follow rigidly the Brithini forms of life and government, and ruled by the Talar. Earlier, they were influenced by the God Learners, especially the Zistorites but are now very orthodox Malkioni.

See the Guide material on God Forgot.

Orlanthi women elect to become Vingans in different ways: on initiation and sometimes in war. There's a reference to many women dying their hair red, the mark of the Vingan, after some of the tribes of Sartar lost many of their male warriors in fighting the Lunars.

Orlanthi women aren't passive: Ernalda's 'There is always another way' seems to contrast with Orlanth's 'Violence is always an option' but it is simply less direct. In a clan vote on a Weaponstake, any woman with a meat cleaver, sowing kit and pot can vote. Note also how many Queens there are and have been of Sartarite tribes, a role that is rarely without conflict.

Nor do other troll variants. Trollkin are only born to Mistress Race, Dark Trolls and possibly a few others.

The Guide to Glorantha states that Tusk Riders are weird human-troll hybrids.

The Dragonewts were powerful and widespread before the Chaos Age, but when Chaos began to destroy them, they only resisted in two places: they Resisted in Stength in Kralorela and Resisted in Weakness in Dragon Pass. Since Time began Dragonewts are only found relatively near those places, for everywhere else they permitted themselves to be destroyed to prevent their entanglement with the non-draconic world.

For similar reasons, True Dragons are only found near where their kin survived, but these are relatively small: only a few miles in length. In contrast, the Star Dragon is immense and the Stella Draconis constellation covers a significant arc of the Sky.

Griselda is certainly alive and well in Pavis: Gateway to Adventure.

Tales of her adventures are told by Olav Dickinsson; anyone in Pavis Oldtown can point him out to you. Griselda apparently made it known she didn't want 'no scribe telling tales of her in no Guide.'

Argrath seems to be both a personal name and a title: the Argrath, the Liberator. Until the prophecy is fulfilled, the Argrath could be anyone - male or female.

They aren't entirely human, and bear the mark of troll ancestry as well; some sources say this interbreeding dates to the Great Darkness before Time but more reliable sources indicate the troubled times at the end of the Second Age. Their skulls are human, save for the troll-like elongated face, diminutive tusks and the ridges at the back of the skull attached to their jaw muscles.

The skin-walker Tusk Brothers, despite the similarity in name, are different in nature and behavior to the Tusk Riders.

Argrath will have his failures... and without Kallyr it is doubtful he would have so many successes.

Kallyr became Queen of her tribe, the Kheldon, conquered a sky god and bears his jewel on her forehead, fought at Boldhome, in the Righteous Wind Rebellion, in her Starbrow's Rebellion; will aid in the defense of Whitewall, defeat the Lunar Army in the Battle of the Auroch Hills, will  take part in the ritual to raise the Boat Planet, befriend the Star Dragon, be involved in the Dragonrise, defeat the Lunars at the Battle of Dangerford, defeat the Lunars in the Battle of the Queens in which she is killed, and returns to the Sky World to be with her lover.

Players in the forthcoming Coming Storm campaign will have an opportunity to meet Kallyr.

Hmm, looking though the lists of deities of the Orlanthi pantheon, and enemy deities of the Orlanthi pantheon in 'King of Sartar' there's: Aldrya, Arache Solara, Asrelia, Babeester Gor, Brastalos, Chalana Arroy, Eneria, Ernalda, Esra, Esrola, Ginna Jar (?), Glorantha, Grandmother Mortal,  Huraya, Inora, Iphara, Kal, Lady of the Wild/Verala, Mahome, Mallia, Maran Gor, Pelora, Ty Kora Tek, Uleria, Vinga, Voria; Artia, Deloradella, Ithas, Kyger Litor, Mallia, Rausa, Shepelkirt (the Red Goddess), Sinjota, Thed.

Bear in mind that I used the pronunciation guides in Cults of Terror, Trollpak and the Prosopaedia in ‘Gods of Glorantha’ to create that list, and the information may no longer be valid. I would also suggest that the pronunciations given are valid only in a particular region - perhaps Dragon Pass, as even within the Theyalan languages there will be variations and different dialects.

Word versions of the three documents now exist, derived in part from OCR scanned versions...