M Helsdon

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

So, what about Harrek and social organisations? Leader of a horde? Check, and we find the same for Conan. Leading a core of dedicated followers? Check for both, again. Came up through his native cult? Check for Harrek, and I admit ignorance for Conan. Got formed by mercenary jobs for decadent civilization? Check for both.

And with Harrek there's always the question: did he possess his god, or did his god possess him? Or are they symbiotes?

Another 'sword & sorcery' hero who manipulates and uses organizations (he predates them all) is Karl Edward Wagner's Kane. Another writer who died too young.

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 5:44 PM, Joerg said:

I never got my eyes on a complete set of the novels, and all I read started in medias res with a fully grown and mightily angry barbarian.

There only ever was one Conan novel, before the pastiche writers got their hand on the property. Much of the widespread assumptions about Conan are derived from movies and comics. It's interesting that the Weird Tales covers painted when the stories were first published tended to show Conan in sensible armor and garb. Conan wasn't as brooding as Kull, but he's not the simple barbarian either, with his own brand of Howard's angst. Now some of the themes in the original Conan are dated, and there's the usual background racism of the period when Howard was writing, but Conan's greatest love, Belit, was a Semite and some of his most loyal followers were African.

As for his youth: he was born on a battlefield and took part in the storming of an Aquilonian settlement in Cimmeria in his youth, and by the time he was a teenager was thieving in Zamora. He swore by Crom, but Crom wasn't the sort of deity to help out. No DI from Crom.

47 minutes ago, pachristian said:

So here's a question for you Conan, and Fafhrd and the Mouser fans:

Conan had support during his career from a number of religious groups (especially Mitra) and Fafhrd became an acolyte of Issek the Jug (and both he and the Mouser enjoyed the patronage of certain magicians...)  so none of them were totally cut off from cults and other groups. If you chose to be independent then you aren't going to be penalized other than by lacking the benefits (and responsibilities) a cult provides.

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Ok... I was working under the assumption that ghouls are necrophagous undead that feed on corpses that can be fairly ripe. Your comment makes them rather a type of classical cannibals or ogres that herd captive humans for consumption.

Cannibalism is one way to become a ghoul... cf the King of the Ghouls, Brangbane.

17 minutes ago, Joerg said:

So: Are we talking about live human abductees kept and fed in byres, or are we talking about abducted corpses (which may or may not have been alive at the time of abduction) stacked away in byres while they ripen to perfection?

Live human 'cattle' available for slaughter and consumption are more convenient than waiting for a battlefield or looking for corpses, especially when the predominant culture in Dragon Pass burns a high percentage of its dead, and buries the rest where they can be guarded. As ghouls have to devour a corpse a week or start to decay, meat on the 'hoof' is a necessity.

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

On the topic of necrophagy - there appears to be a niche for ghouls in Dragon Pass. This seems to indicate a certain amount of unburied or at least sloppily buried dead in the region - victims of robberies or raids left unattended or only provisionally interred, victims of accidents.

The ghouls are very 'proactive' - their society is a mockery of Orlanthi traditions, based on cattle, and cattle raiding - but their cattle, whom they keep in byres, are human.

19 hours ago, styopa said:

I'm curious if Greg and MAR Barker ever crossed paths?

The Professor reviewed Cults of Prax in the Gryphon #1 Summer 1980, and Greg responded in the same issue. Unfortunately the Cult Compendium only includes Greg's response, but the review is interesting. 

A set of silhouettes I threw together when generating those used. Note: no impala in this line up; the horse is one of the larger breeds.

2 hours ago, soltakss said:

Whereas Dragonewts rode Demi-Birds, that were effectively feathered dinosaurs.

Only in as much as all birds are descended from dinosaurs.

The demi-bird is closer to one of the Phorusrhacidae 'terror birds', and I used them as the basis of the silhouette in HeroQuest: Glorantha.

1 hour ago, Iskallor said:

Why the need for pictures and trying to find something that fits?

A picture paints a thousand words... Often little details in an illustration can provide many cues and clues to what is depicted.

There's another canon illustration of a Bolo-lizard in RuneQuest: Foes, page 83, which I also used as a source for scale. The Bolo-lizard has similar forearms and 'fingers and claws' to a Therizinosaur, which would make sense for a herbivore scratching around for food in Prax and the Wastes.

I believe Foes will become more accessible due to the Kickstarter? It includes a size comparison chart and several useful illustrations.

52 minutes ago, g33k said:

I admit to finding the Bolo Lizard disappointingly small... vs. the other Beasts, I had been envisioning something midway in size between the High Llama and the Sable...

RQ2 gives an average SIZ of 19; Impalas 13; Sables 21-22; High Llama and Bison 34-35; Rhinos 37. Bolo-lizards are pygmy mounts and so one of the smaller Praxian riding animals.

RQ2 Foes gives Ostriches a SIZ around 15.

These SIZ were taken into account when producing the silhouettes, bearing in mind that much of the apparent 'bulk' of an ostrich is feathers.

42 minutes ago, Tindalos said:

Anaxial's Roster gives their GL name as Camptosaurus elegans, and real life Camptosaurs could work quite well as a base.

All the Camptosauri were too large.

No known dinosaur quite fits, which is why the silhouette was a 'mash-up'.

56 minutes ago, Iskallor said:

Where does someone sit when riding a Bison? It looks like they and someone on a High Llama are the same height.

Perhaps I shouldn't have uploaded the draft (now deleted). No, the bison is slightly too large in that version, and the rider doesn't sit on the bison's 'hump' but well behind it - see Gene Day's illustration in Cults of Prax, page 43.

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

@M Helsdon what did you use as the Bolo Lizard basis for the size chart in HeroQuest Glorantha?

It was a composite - the body of a raptor with a smaller head, and modified legs - with the SIZ derived from the RQ2 description. I may have lengthened the neck a little to be more similar to the Nomad Gods counter.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Actually, the sources are quite unclear about this.

There's considerable detail regarding the structure and memberships of clans, steads and households in forthcoming Volume 1 of The Coming Storm.

2 hours ago, SNaomiScott said:

Hi all.

I'm in the process of getting ready to run a Glorantha game using RQ Classic rules (so many fond memories), and after browsing through the old HeroQuest books I've decided I'm mostly going to be limiting my players to the Heortling-controlled areas of Sartar as described in Thunder Rebels. While I'm impressed by just how much background information is given in this and the associated books, I'm still having trouble picturing the layout of a 'typical' Heortling Stead.

 

Not Heorting but closely related: there's a plan of a typical Steadholder's house in the oop RQ3 Dorastor, page 109. Basically an oblong with a front and rear entrance in the middle of the longer sides, with the hearth and living quarters, then private quarters to the right of the entrances, and stalls for livestock to the left of the entrances. The same publication has diagram's of richer buildings - a chieftain's hall and council hall on page 113.

The forthcoming The Coming Storm will also contain information about households in Sartar, including: A longhouse is a long, narrow, timber-framed building. The walls are of wattle-and-daub, the roof of tiles. The ceiling is open to the top of the rafters, which are used for storage. The floor is rough earth. Often, the building is divided into three portions: stalls for cattle, a single living space, and bedrooms. In richer houses the cattle live in a separate byre.

The Coming Storm contains a lot more information, so whilst it is written for HeroQuest there's a very great deal of general background in it, about houses, steads and villages.

2 hours ago, Iskallor said:

It's what i use as reference. My fave Praxian nation. I was hoping my players would choose them, but we got Bison riders instead.

 

Looks a little like Therizinosaur, a herbivore therapod, though the more recent recreations are feathered.

Not canonical, but perhaps something like this...

http://www.fancyscribbles.com/images/gallery/sketchbook/thumbnails/sketch_01.jpg

5 hours ago, David Scott said:

I wasn't aware of pygmy stats in Heroes (Ostrich clan yes). I'm not sure what you are referring to in Drastic Prax.

Drastic Resolutions Prax states: 'Characteristics are for normal humans, except SIZ is 2D4+2 and STR is 2D8 for men, 2D6 for women.'

Whether this is canonical...?

16 hours ago, TRose said:

True, but the Bantu are also the dominate ethnic group where Pygmy and Bantu mingle.

Intermarriage between Pygmies and non-Pygmies occurs in several areas: Bantu/Pygmy contact in the western region is several thousand years old whilst sudanic/pygmy contact in the eastern region is less than a thousand years old, based on genetic data. Neither indicates any mismatch arising from relative size.

16 hours ago, TRose said:

 That not true in Prax where the Impala tribe( And Bolo Lizard and Ostrich tribe) can give as good as it take.

And so would take captives from other tribes. The Bolo-Lizard Folk and Ostrich are both minor tribes, and the Impala have been driven out of Prax into Vulture Country. Whilst the Sables remain dominant as Lunar Allies the Impala tribe will remain out on the fringes of the Wastelands.

Relative numbers:

Impala 120,000
Bolo Lizard Folk 2100
Ostrich Clan 1200

16 hours ago, TRose said:

 I read some place(Drastic Resolution Prax I think) that the Impala tribe conduct more raids then the other tribes.

Much in Drastic Resolutions Prax is not canonical.

16 minutes ago, TRose said:

One problem I would see about raiding tribes for Wives/Husband although very common  in history, you have the size problem in Prax.

In our world where similar intermarriage occurs it is almost always Pygmy women marrying outside their group - in West Africa such Pygmy-Bantu marriages are not uncommon. 

1 hour ago, TRose said:

Did  the original 21 tribe of the Covenant of Waha include the Loper tribe? I know they range far and wide , but the only people who say they still exist are the tribes of Prax.

 

No, the Lopers weren't native to Prax or included in the Covenant. The Zaranistangi arrived from Pamaltela and went west from Prax, being defeated by the Seshnegi in the Second Age in 805 when they attempted to conquer Slontos. They reappear during the Hero Wars, being returned by a Melibite Hero.

3 hours ago, David Scott said:

The Pimpers Block market still exists. I'm not saying there's no native Praxians sold as slaves, just as a percentage of the population it's low. Conquered foes also covers foreigners. I can see raiding to order being profitable to some small bands and clans. 

Perhaps, but it seems to reflect the idea that selling captured foes who couldn't be or weren't desirable to be assimilated into the tribe was very widespread. Foreigners wouldn't be sent into exile by being sold to other foreigners at Pimper's Block.

Instead it appears to reflect a mechanism whereby a ransom could be obtained by forcing the prisoner's relatives to buy them back or else foreign exchange (coins, goods, especially metals) could be obtained. It seems to be primarily Praxians selling Praxians, and in sufficient numbers to draw buyers from the Holy Country and Lunar Empire. Prior to the invasion of Sartar by the Lunars, perhaps it was also a place where Sartarites could buy back kin captured in nomad raids.

Given the ongoing cycle of conflict between the Praxians whereby a tribe becomes powerful enough to dominate Prax, forcing its rivals into the Wastelands - until they come back sufficiently lean and tough to wrest control back - it seems a likely place for captured members of tribes defeated and driven off over the River of Cradles to be disposed of.

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

It really depends on who is being raided. Native Praxians are not ideal captives; they can ride any herd beast, survive in the Wastes, know the land, and understand the magics of their captors. So when raiding other tribes, the main goal is herd beasts - food, glory, wealth and marriage dowry. Taking native prisoners is just going to slow you down, unless you can render them harmless.

There's the (old?) canon example of Norayeep and her brother from Cults of Prax and:

Pimper’s Block is the name of a thriving slave market on the border between Dragon Pass and Prax. Here triumphant warriors come to send their conquered foes into exile for a profit, and here the defeated come to ransom their kin or cult mate. Buyers from the Holy Country and the Lunar Empire also are here to purchase whatever exotic specimens their masters require or desire.

7 hours ago, SDLeary said:

Remember guys, this is a typo quest. Rules don't worry about; RQ2 says one thing, CoP or RQ Companion says something else... The rules are supposed to be faithful to the original book. Contradictory supplements that came later are based on revised thinking. Choose one variant or the other, YRQWV.

The OCRed RQ file did not include the cults and other material, which was either sourced from other OCRed documents or typed in from scratch. The cults were mostly ported in from CoP and sanitized to a degree, whilst the new appendices were either typed in or ported in from another document. The Errata I used was from the RQ Companion. The original book contained numerous typos, most of which were caught prior to the release of the PDF. The extended page length derives from the way in which books are printed, to avoid blank pages.