Paid a bod yn dwp

47 minutes ago, styopa said:

Sorry to be that guy but:
1) if one doesn't have 58 min to watch the video, could anyone recap meaningful announcements?

2) if this is full of interesting bits, wouldn't this be be a thing that should be mentioned on the chaosium blog and/or in the email blast?

The next 4 releases, with the last out by end of year at latest:

1. The Smoking Ruins. Linked scenarios set in smoking Ruins by Chris Klug

2. RuneQuest starter set - think Cthulhu starter set - Basic RuneQuest.

3. Pegasus Plateau & other stories - micro scenarios/ encounters.Easy to run for Gms. By Steffy Devan( probably spelt her name wrong), Helena Nash, and John Wick.

4. Gms Sourcebook - including lots of gm advice, Heroquesting, treasures 

• Also there was talk of an adventure by Steve Perrin, and the last adventure by Greg Stafford in what sounds like a sandbox in a new part of Dragon Pass?
• Intersting talk on expanding into new areas of Glorantha. Starting with the Lunar Empire. There’s a manuscript for Kralorela with associated campaign arch, and also the west and the invisible God being developed by Jeff.
• There’s mention of scenarios pack set in one of the islands of Seaopolis. 
• The 2 part book Gods of Glorantha is written, but waiting for art.
• Two book return to  Pavis & The Big Rubble by Robbin Laws.
• Two Adventures set in the Upland Marsh, one a fleshed out adventure by Greg Stafford.
• There’ll be a Grazelander Campaign book( not sure the author?),
• A Praxian Campaign Book by David Scott.
• New Troll Pak will have an adventure/s taking non trolls “into the troll lands”

Very intesting discussion on art direction in RuneQuest....and Jeff loves ducks.

That about sums it up, worth a listen though.

On 4/7/2019 at 11:59 AM, Paid a bod yn dwp said:

 

OK heres my edited summary of what i strongly feel is RAW now (if i can say that):

Damage < Location HP

• All Hit Locations: No effect beyond total HP loss.

Damage >= Location HP

• Arm: Arm is unusable; adventurer drops anything held with it.
• Leg: Leg is unusable; adventurer falls prone, takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds.
• Abdomen: Both legs are unusable, adventurer falls prone and takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds. Adventurer bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless abdomen is treated or healed.
• Chest: Adventurer falls prone, can take no actions, bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless chest is treated or healed.
• Head: Adventurer is unconscious, dies in 5 minutes unless head is treated or healed.

Damage >= 2 × Location HP

• Arm or Leg:
  • If limb suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit or cumulative hits, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts. Further hits to the limb beyond x2 will only pass on damage to Total hit points
  • Otherwise, no further effect.
• Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
  • If location suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, or cumulative hits, adventurer is unconscious, bleeds 1 HP/round until location is treated or healed.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.

Damage >= 3 × Location HP

• Arm or Leg:
  • If limb suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; limb is severed or maimed, adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts. Remember no need to record damage to a limb (only Total Hit points) beyond x2, hence why only a single hit will sever a limb and not cumulative hits.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.
• Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
  • If location suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit or cumulative hits, adventurer dies instantly.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.

 

• This is based on limbs having a x2 max cap to damage they can receive, and also a x2 cap max damage they can receive from a single blow.
• Head, chest, and abdomen locations do not have a cap to damage that they can receive from a single blow.
• So wounds for limbs are tracked up to x2, and wounds for other locations - head chest and abdomen are tracked up to x3
• The x2 damage effect for limbs can be triggered from cumulative hits, as it's stated "An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow." So it stands to reason that x2 can be reached with cumulative hits, but not beyond that limit.
• It is only the x3 severing effect specifically for limbs, that has the peculiarity of needing the damage to be from a single hit.  Which nicely simulates a big chop  

I feel pretty confident now that this is the full story. But obviously we shall wait to see what a considered opinion from Jason Durall says , if its different then we're in errata territory.

With this reading in mind it’s worth looking back at RQ2 (the chassis which RQG is built from). The reasoning for “limbs” not being able to take more then x2 in a single hit is given as:

”A modern, high velocity, bullet, hitting a limb hard enough to put it out of action, will probably kill the owner of the limb by hydrostatic shock. The slower moving ancient weapons do not have this effect. Therefore a character cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow.”

RuneQuest Classic p20

With the reasoning explained I think it’s easier to accept the same ruling in RQG. 

It goes on to say:

“Thus a 2 point arm hit for 5 points will only take 4 points of damage off the total Hit Points, the remaining point of damage having no effect. Further blows to the arm will affect the Hit Points of the character.”

Its the same ruling that is used in RQG.

The only difference in RQG is you have a x3 threshold in place of RQ2’s 6pts past the x2 limit in a single blow for severing/maiming limbs

Edit: Apart from the above it’s the same set of rules and outcomes. In fact I’m beginning to wonder whether RQ2 explained it better?  RQG is more exhaustive mentioning rules details for head, chest and abdomen which are only really inferred in RQ2.

Most importantly RQ2 explains the reasoning for the different rulings for limb damage, which I now feel after this discussion is an omission from RQG. 

3 hours ago, 7Tigers said:

Or it could to be included in the Grazelands book...

Everyone here should watch Jeff and Jason’s latest video choc full of RuneQuest announcements...

...I’d just like to add I’m SO pleased Chaosium went with the change to the RuneQuest logo   It’s spot on. This thing sings. 

On 4/6/2019 at 6:42 AM, Jeff said:

I love it when people were willing to post their pictures of the new books on social media! Fills me with joy!

And why not?... Thank you Chaosium. Bowled over by the quality and quantity of material in the RuneQuest slip case set. Incredible work. Thank you! Diolch! 

@Jason Durall Not sure if you've registered this in the second printing?... but this example on p147 of RQG is clearly wrong:

Quote

Example: Harmast has 4 hit points in the head and a total of 10 hit points. He takes 10 points of damage in a single blow. His armor protection (1 point) is subtracted, meaning he has suffered 9 points of damage in the head. He takes 9 points of damage to the head, which is more than twice his total for the head hit location, but less than three times. It knocks him out. Harmast is now unconscious, with 2 total hit points remaining and will lose 1 hit points each melee round until First Aid or healing magic is applied.

It should be:

" ...with 1 total hit point remaining and will lose 1 hit point each melee round until First Aid or healing magic is applied."

or alternatively change one of the other values to make this example work

On 1/29/2019 at 9:52 PM, trystero said:

Here's my summary of how I think damage effects actually work by hit location. Interested to see whether this is how everyone else parses the rules.

Damage < Location HP

• All Hit Locations: No effect beyond total HP loss.

Damage >= Location HP

• Arm: Arm is unusable; adventurer drops anything held with it.
• Leg: Leg is unusable; adventurer falls prone, takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds.
• Abdomen: Both legs are unusable, adventurer falls prone and takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds. Adventurer bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless abdomen is treated or healed.
• Chest: Adventurer falls prone, can take no actions, bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless chest is treated or healed.
• Head: Adventurer is unconscious, dies in 5 minutes unless head is treated or healed.

Damage >= 2 × Location HP

• Arm or Leg:
  • If limb suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.
• Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
  • If location suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, adventurer is unconscious, bleeds 1 HP/round until location is treated or healed.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.

Damage >= 3 × Location HP

• Arm or Leg:
  • If limb suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; limb is severed or maimed, adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.
• Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
  • If location suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, adventurer dies instantly.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.

OK heres my edited summary of what i strongly feel is RAW now (if i can say that):

Damage < Location HP

• All Hit Locations: No effect beyond total HP loss.

Damage >= Location HP

• Arm: Arm is unusable; adventurer drops anything held with it.
• Leg: Leg is unusable; adventurer falls prone, takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds.
• Abdomen: Both legs are unusable, adventurer falls prone and takes no action this round. May fight from prone position in following rounds. Adventurer bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless abdomen is treated or healed.
• Chest: Adventurer falls prone, can take no actions, bleeds to death in 10 minutes unless chest is treated or healed.
• Head: Adventurer is unconscious, dies in 5 minutes unless head is treated or healed.

Damage >= 2 × Location HP

• Arm or Leg:
  • If limb suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit or cumulative hits, ignore  HP loss to limb in excess of 2 × location HP, ; adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts. Further hits to the limb beyond x2 will only pass on damage to Total hit points. Note the Maximum damage from a single blow to a limb is limited to x2 the limbs hit points, which can pass onto Total hitpoints.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.
• Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
  • If location suffered 2 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, or cumulative hits, adventurer is unconscious, bleeds 1 HP/round until location is treated or healed.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.

Damage >= 3 × Location HP

• Arm or Leg:
  • If limb suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit, ignore total HP loss in excess of 2 × location HP; limb is severed or maimed, adventurer is incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts. Remember no need to record damage to a limb (only Total Hit points) beyond x2, hence why only a single hit will sever a limb and not cumulative hits.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.
• Abdomen, Chest, or Head:
  • If location suffered 3 × location-HP damage or more from a single hit or cumulative hits, adventurer dies instantly.
  • Otherwise, no further effect.

• This is based on limbs having a x2 max cap to damage they can receive, and also a x2 cap max damage they can receive from a single blow.
• Head, chest, and abdomen locations do not have a cap to damage that they can receive from a single blow.
• So wounds for limbs are tracked up to x2, and wounds for other locations - head chest and abdomen are tracked up to x3
• The x2 damage effect for limbs can be triggered from cumulative hits, as it's stated "An adventurer cannot take more than twice the possible points of damage in an arm or leg from a single blow." So it stands to reason that x2 can be reached with cumulative hits, but not beyond that limit.
• It is only the x3 severing effect specifically for limbs, that has the peculiarity of needing the damage to be from a single hit.  Which nicely simulates a big chop  

I feel pretty confident now that this is the full story. But obviously we shall wait to see what a considered opinion from Jason Durall says , if its different then we're in errata territory.

On 4/5/2019 at 5:47 PM, styopa said:

No body part can 'pass on' to body hp anything over 2x that part.**

Actually this is what myself and few other used to think what was written in RQ2. As youngsters we skim read and missed the distinction in the wording between Hit locations and limbs. I think RQG has helped make this distinction a bit more obvious with the bulleted points ( though admittedly  its taken this discussion to make me see the rules as written in RQG) 

On 4/3/2019 at 1:37 AM, Tupper said:

The reason I say 2 is that in order to figure out whether you've reached maimed status, you'd have to associate the subsequent wounds with the limb.  If the damage gets recorded as "general/total" HP damage, it could be hard to tell where it came from (of course this interpretation - as noted above - would conflict with Jason's earlier comment on the questions and answers thread). 

This is why x3 severing hits to limbs can only occur through a single hit, not cumulative hits. Limb wounds aren’t recorded after x2 limit has been reached. It makes sense as subsequent hits probably wouldn’t hit the exact same point on the limb necessary to build up to a sever.

First Aid skill

Going off on another related tangent - I think the whole idea of healing specific associated wounds is only tied in with the first aid rule.

I think i mentioned this before, first aid was introduced in RQ3, which only went up to x2 wounds max, unlike RQG and RQ2 which go up to x3. As you can imagine applying first aid skill in RQG creates a discrepancy with associated wounds and healing - wounds received to the limbs after the x2 limit don't count, but do register with total hit points.  First aid worked in RQ3 with the x2 limit, but feels wonky in RQG for this reason.

To be honest I'm surprised that Chaosium have stuck with the RQ3 first aid skill which necessitates more book keeping. I thought RQ3 style of more book keeping was something they weren't particulary keen on in RQG? Perhaps in light of the wonkiness with RQG and how limbs receive damage( no recorded dam to limbs after x2, only to total hit points), the First aid skill should be rewritten for RQG? 

I've brought up this point in the core rules question thread.

@Tupperok big apologies  - there is one aspect I’ve somehow overlooked here...

Limb locations can indeed get to the x2 damage effect from culmaltive hits( as Jason says). It’s only the x3 severing effect that has to be from a single hit with “limbs”. Further damage to a "limb" after x2 limit has been reached only goes to Total Hit points, not the limb hit location.

This makes sense as you don't count further wounds to limbs(only total hitpoints) after x2 has been reached. It’s therefore only possible to trigger the x3 severing effect from a single hit, not cumulative hits. 

Edit: I've edited my previous post to include the point above.

10 hours ago, Lightning Lord said:

Am I reading things right and there's supposed to be an extra discount for people who have the pdfs and the a hard copy of the corebook? Or does the "you have all three pdfs" coupon already cover that?

Yes  - you get a discount coupon for the the core RQG rules in the slip case, if you've previously bought the hard back, pdf, or both

On 4/4/2019 at 9:34 AM, Tupper said:

That reads to me like you can mangle a limb with cumulative damage (and to do that, they need to get above 2x HP).

Yes thats what Jason has said here, but its not what is stated in the rule book. I suspect, like you suggest he's rushed in without fully looking at the section in the book. Hopefully when time permits he"ll give this full consideration. Although what he has said certainly does apply to the core hit locations (head, chest, abdomen). Edit: it also applies to limbs up to x2, but not beyond. So only a single blow, (not cumulative) of x3 can sever a limb hit location.

Its stated that there is a x2 maximum limit to wounds (both from a single hit, or through cumulative damage) to “limb” hit locations. See quote below:

Quote

Thus, a 2-point arm hit for 5 points takes only 4 points of damage off the total hit points: the remaining 1 point of damage has no effect. Further blows to that arm affect the total hit points of the adventurer, however. RQG p148

"Further blows to that arm affect the total hit points of the adventurer, however" - This to me fairly clearly suggests that only Total Hitpoint's will be reduced from further hits to a “limb”location that is already at x2 limit. So no further wounds possible to a limb which is already at the x2 limit, sustained either through a single hit or culmination of separate hits.

x3 damage effects from a single blow to limbs makes sense to me. They simulate massive blows, potentially severing the limb. Also i think the lower damage cap of x2 from a single blow and cumulative (to limbs) suggests their lesser overall importance in the hierarchy of hit locations. Core hit locations (head, chest, abdomen) are more vulnerable being the vital areas, so I can accept the different rulings - Those being the higher x3 damage cap, which potentially allows more damage to pass onto Total Hit points through cumulative hits, as well as single blows, not to mention outright death from big x3 hits.

What would help to clear the ambiguity would be if the writers had stated up front ( or in a box text section) that a limb is tracked to x2 max wounds, and head chest and abdomen is tracked to x3 max wounds. I think stating those specific limits up front would help massively with interpretation. As such its inferred by the rules in the text, but a more obvious boxed section would help.

1 hour ago, Tupper said:

I also really appreciate (as the OP) everyone who's contributed to this thread: it's really helped my understand what's going on in this section.😇

No problem - I can honestly say I’ve never looked more closely at a set of rules than this  

Thanks Chaosium - slipcase ordered earlier today.  Really nice touch to allow us to reuse RQG coupon on the slipcase edition. Many thanks 

Reading the book my feeling is still that “limbs” are x2 limited (not just from a single blow) So no need to track wounds to a limb after x2 limit. A massive x3 from a single blow will sever the limb. It seems to model as I touched on before, the limbs being not “as” vital as the core hit locations, allowing the slim possibility of being able to fight another day.

Whereas head, chest, abdomen have a cap of x3 wounds that can be reached culmaltively or through a single hit. So you will track wounds to those locations upto x3 leading to *checks notes*...death. This is inline with what Jason is saying.

So death by a thousand cuts if it’s one of the core hit locations, but not necessarily so for limbs.

On 4/1/2019 at 4:29 PM, Jason Durall said:

The effects of damage per location are based on total hit points delivered to the hit location.

For example, with a 6-pt limb, it doesn't matter if it's one blow doing 18 points or 18 1-point injuries, it is destroyed. 

I'll try to pop in to the official answers thread.

It's just a question of prioritizing new material moving forward into production or long periods of careful research and deliberation for questions. 

Hi @Jason Durall- The point of contention is that the rule book suggests a x2 damage limit to “limbs”, with further blows to the limb only effecting Total Hit points. That would mean that wounds in limbs are only tracked up to x2. Is this correct? Does that therefore need to be corrected in the core rules?

I’ve addressed this in my question in the core rules thread. 

5 hours ago, trystero said:

@Tupper, I chose another 2 points intentionally, to illustrate the difference that Jason's answer above makes. Here's my understanding of how my example works, in more detail:

• Before combat, uninjured: My arm is at 3 HP (its full value), and I'm at full total HP. Life is good.
• After a 7-point arm hit: My arm takes 7 points of damage and drops to −4 HP (and I'm incapacitated and can take no action beyond healing attempts, because the arm has now taken at least 2× its original HP). But total HP loss from a single arm or leg hit can't exceed 2× the location's HP, which in this case is a 6-HP limit, so my total HP only drop by 6, not by 7.
• After another 2-point arm hit: My arm takes another 2 points of damage and drops to −6 HP (and is severed or maimed, because it's now taken 3× its original HP). My total HP drop by another 2, so I'm down 8 total HP.

So the first hit does 7 points to the arm, but only 6 to your total HP. The second hit does 2 to the arm and 2 to your total HP.

Again, this is my understanding; I'm interested to hear whether others see it differently.

Trying to go with Rules as written, this is all correct apart from a limb cannot go below x2 wounds, so the limb would be at -3 not -4.

Jason’s comment doesn’t make sense in regards to “limb” damage, as it seems to suggest that you track wounds up to x3, where as the rule book suggests a limit of x2, with subsequent hits only going to Total Hit points...A x3 hit to a limb from a single blow is a special severing Hit, but damage from which is only tracked up to x2... pretty sure we’ve run through this all previously in this thread. 

I hope Jason will give proper consideration  in the core question thread. As it seems he’s in part contradicting the rule book. Although if my understanding is incorrect then the rule book needs revision.

22 minutes ago, Jason Durall said:

The effects of damage per location are based on total hit points delivered to the hit location.

For example, with a 6-pt limb, it doesn't matter if it's one blow doing 18 points or 18 1-point injuries, it is destroyed. 

I'll try to pop in to the official answers thread.

It's just a question of prioritizing new material moving forward into production or long periods of careful research and deliberation for questions. 

Thanks very much Jason. It’s just a technicality which I think I’ve summed up fairly concisely in my related question/s  in the core rules thread - apologies for my persistence, I’ve come across a few people that had difficulty with that section of the book so thought it apt to get an official answer.

@Jason DurallBe great if we could get another round of official answers over on the core question rule thread, now that the RQG slipcase is imminent. 

Be good to tie up these loose ends. Makes it easier for us to help out on the forums then too. 

Yes quite fancy having a 2nd printing. This is the incentive I need 

Yeah I’m not entirely clear on the statement. It sounds like it goes against what rick said on the forum. Do we really get to offset the costs of the  corebook in the slipcase if we’ve bought the 1st printing? Very happy if that’s the case, but I shall hold back on celebrations as others have said until I’ve heard more from chaosium. 

Someone suggested that the Gloranthan classics line didn’t have the npc stats, or economised to save space. 

I opted for the originals of Griffin Mountain and borderlands. Nicely remastered, formatting is an improvement 

The idea is to use it as a “simple” initiative system. I don’t think it’s intended to use it as a more complex tapestry tacticle movement. Broader brush strokes are better. Once your engaged in melee then movement no longer matters in terms of SR

IIRC RQ3 encouraged a more involved use of SR for movement, but RQG is inline with RQ2, which uses a broader brushstroke.

You just want to know who goes first, if they’ve got a bit further to go before they enter melee, then add the appropriate SR penalty. 

6 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

If we ever substantially revise the Guide to Glorantha it will be to make it a 4 book set of 8.5" x 11" books of about 256 pages each.

Thanks for the info. I’d be interested in a revision at some point when time allows, though as others have said, new stuff is priority. Though maybe new Chaosium could do both?   Keep up the good work 👍

6 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

There have been a few questions about discounts on the second printing of the rulebook. In short, if you purchase a PDF, you will get a one use coupon that can be used towards purchasing the printed version of that product. 

Almost all of our books get revised slightly when they get reprinted. That's a natural part of the process. We find typos or other small mistakes, clarifications, and similar, and we incorporate them into the next printing. We have done that with the majority of our books, since the majority of them go through more than one printing. Chaosium has done this for decades. 

Thanks Rick. Just wanted to clear that up. Looking forward to seeing the slipcase set.