Darius West

On 7/4/2023 at 12:58 AM, Squaredeal Sten said:

As i understand it if you go back to the RW bronze age, poetry and literature ore one:  Literature is oral rather than written,

Literature is always written, by definition.  Purely spoken artforms would include poetry, oratory or story telling, with considerable overlap between all of them.  As a song is essentially a poem sung in time to music, it also crosses this line I suspect.

25 minutes ago, metcalph said:

It doesn't say so in the rules and it's existence has never been acknowledged in published materials.

I'm pretty sure it showed up in Griffin Mountain but I can't be bothered digging for it. 

In any case, if you can cast a detect paper spell or a detect iron spell, by comparison it is a hell of a lot easier to detect a the presence of a rune.  Or do we want to get really specific?  I mean, logically we could have a Detect Illuminate spell and that would be just as plausible as a Detect Mostali spell. Substance is a very broad term, but an active rune like a Chaos Rune definitely has a reality in Glorantha, as reality is based on Runes.  I mean, if you can Detect Life, why not just Detect Life which has an active Chaos Rune? It seems a lot more plausible that detecting every form of dead Plant Rune or dead Beast Rune that could feasibly be of a thinness that would constitute paper.  Don't get me started on Detect Enemies aka "Detect every living, spirit, or undead thing within range that would wish me harm if it knew I was here" spell.

6 minutes ago, metcalph said:

It's not clear whether it has any special powers in doing so.  RQG p344 says it's summoned "for a spirit combat
attack on a target that has already revealed its Chaotic nature".  The Red Book of Magic p95 just says Chaotic target but both versions do have the sentence "If the spirit appears and does not detect a Chaotic spirit or soul, the Spirit of Law departs without making any attack" suggesting that a spirit could fail to sense a chaotic in its vicinity.

Personally I choose not to make a weak spell even more useless.  I mean, according to you, the Waha initiate accuses someone of being chaos and attacks them, then calls on the spirit, and if they are chaotic then the spirit hits them in spirit combat, and if not, then too bad, they have a dagger ax in their head, but no harm, no foul, they aren't chaos, just a big misunderstanding. 

I prefer to treat the spell as an "ultima ratio khanum", that sends a spirit that can tell if someone is chaotic with unerring precision so that a Stormbull initiate making noisy claims of chaos can seek a ruling from the Waha Khan before acting totally precipitously. It allows Waha to be more useful and potentially de-escalate the worst excesses of Stormbulls.  it seems more appropriate to the setting, and MGF, as it means that Summon Spirit of Law actually has a social purpose as well as a second rate military application.

Just now, metcalph said:

Funnily enough I don't think this exists.  At the very least, it's too broad a focus and should be broken down.  This would be there would be spells to detect the likes of Ooze, Disease or Unliving but a borad spectrum detect chaos spell has not been described in the literature AFAIK.  

Detect (substance) can include Detect Chaos as it would simply identify creatures with an active chaos rune.  It was certainly never a problem in RQ2.

On 6/28/2023 at 1:07 AM, mfbrandi said:

Continuation of the discussion in the Ethilrist thread.

Now, according to Greg — and who am I to argue? — a Chaos Taint is real but not physical. It can have effects in the good old efficient causality sense.

So:

• If you are born into a society of crazy bigots, you are the one who will end up with a Chaos Taint, not them (so long as they live down adhere to their own low standards, anyway).

  Reveal hidden contents

Replacing “what my society thinks is evil” with “what I think is evil” would get us nowhere in rehabilitating the idea of morality. It might be fun for a psychologised notion of Chaos Taint as self-punishment, but we wouldn’t want to beat up on people for beating themselves up — that would be cruel — so it wouldn’t give a reason to despise those with the Taint.

Ahh, the philosophy of Chaos Taints, what an interesting topic.

So let us consider how you can obtain a Chaos Taint...

(1) Being born into a chaotic species

(2) Joining the cult of a Deity with a Chaos rune.

(3) Performing the Chaos Gift Rune Magic of the Seven Mothers.  There may be other examples of magic that passes a chaos taint this way.

(4) Obtaining a Chaos Feature through means such as eating Chaos Ooze.

(5) Breaking taboos and performing heinous acts such as rape, cannibalism (sometimes), and incest.  You know, things that "crazy bigots" really object to.

Now, how do we recognize who has a chaos taint?

(1) The Stormbull/Uroxi Sense Chaos ability.

(2) The Detect Chaos spirit magic spell.

(3) Waha's Spirits of Law

(4) Visual identification of a chaos feature mutation or trait that is obviously out of keeping with the species.

(5) Adverse reaction to the touch of truestone

(6) Falling into 1d4+1 pieces when coming into contact with a trollish "stone to kill chaos".

And of course there is one way to hide a chaos taint apart from leaving town whenever an Uroxi shows up...

(1) Illumination.

While there are a few ways to remove a chaos taint, including bathing in the secret sacred waters of the Zola Fel, such as was done by the Cleansed One.  As this was a Hero Quest of the Zola Fel cult, it is possible that other cults have other means to remove a chaos taint that are not common knowledge.

Within the rules as written, I assume that Chaos Taint comes with activating the Chaos Rune within you, in much the same way that joining a Solar Deity activates your Sky Rune.  This is demonstrated in the Bestiary as every chaotic race has a certain Chaos Rune percentage.  Non-sentient chaotic species don't have this, but only because it isn't relevant to their stat blocks as they don't cast magic.

In this sense Chaos Taint is real but not necessarily physical.  On the other hand, when I GM I generally play that  a Chaos Taint does carry an unobvious chaotic mutation, only becoming apparent in mutated and appallingly bizarre organs only visible when the body is torn asunder like Wilbur Whateley when he was mauled by Napoleon the guard dog due to his unnatural smell, but other GMs may feel more charitable.

On 6/29/2023 at 4:56 AM, g33k said:

Is there "art" for pleasure, or mostly just for religious purposes?  Dance, music, poetry, theater, literature?

Song is probably the first art form humans invent, even if it is just chanting, according to anthropology.  This is born out by the speech centers in the human brain, such that when they are damaged, it is often possible to bypass them by getting the patient to sing what they want to say, suggesting that the musical part of the brain is an older system.  Singing is the oldest form of music, save perhaps for percussion, and I can't see any Gloranthans who wouldn't know what singing was.

Music is an outgrowth of singing, and benefits from the fact that while not as portable as the human vocal cords, are still pretty portable.  I'm sure most Gloranthan households will probably have a drum or a flute or perhaps even a more elaborate stringed instrument if they are wealthy.  In its purest form, music is a language of expressing emotion without words and it leads to...

Dancing.  Which is moving one's body in time to music.  We know that Glorantha even has choreography as it is mentioned in the Polaris write-up.  While dancing can be improvised, sometimes there are steps to follow, and patterns to observe.  The moment you have singing and a percussion instrument, dancing is likely invented soon after.

Poetry is an outgrowth of singing.  You employ clever words and rhymes in song, but to then recite them clearly so people don't mishear them becomes an artform in itself.  Poems might be short amusing doggerel, but can also be elevated to a major artform where epic poems with timeless and even mythical themes are played out by a major artist over many nights as a form of noble entertainment, as perhaps a more refined form of story telling.

Sculpture is an outgrowth of the human ability to notice simulacra in nature.  We know that Gloranthans have idols to venerate, but the practice likely starts with wood carving and noticing that a "stick looks just like a fox's head" or a "turnip that looks just like a thingy".  With a few nicks from a flint knife, it might look even more like a fox's head...  Early sculpture will be limited to wood and bone, then will progress to fired clay, and then on to stone, as it requires metal tools to work the harder material unless one is prepared to spend generations using friction and another stone to grind a shape.

Painting begins with body painting, probably using ochre, but giving things a pleasing color has pretty universal appeal.  As this requires an understanding of pigments and fixatives, as well as surface preparation, the idea of painting on a canvas isn't likely a well developed idea in Glorantha.  Instead colorful art will likely take the form of embroidered tapestries and wall paintings and decoration. 

As John Biles rightly suggests, given the issues of Hero Questing, it is likely that theatre is not a developed art form in Glorantha.  What Gloranthans likely enjoy instead is a series of Passion Plays every Sacred Time where they may even be called upon to participate, even if it is only to play a tree or sing in the chorus.  These plays will likely be spoken poetry, and will inform the people about the legends.  It is probably the most interesting and entertaining thing that happens all year.

Literature requires a well educated society and a means of mass producing written documents of an entertaining kind.  It is unequivocally true that there are plenty of books in Glorantha, but they are mostly housed in temples of Learning Gods like Lhankor Mhy, Irripi Ontor and Buserian.  This is likely to be a very rare art form that is appreciated only by a select class of intelligensia.  Certainly we have some very old novels, such as the Metamorphoses by Apuleius to suggest that such art predates printing presses.  Whether the novel presently exists in Glorantha is up for debate.  I am prepared to suppose that it may have existed during the 2nd Age God Learner era, but it likely doesn't exist anymore.

Architecture and even monumental architectural edifices definitely exist in Glorantha.  This is an artform that the Mostali excelled at and which other races have learned to mimic.

Perfumery is an artform in its infancy in Glorantha, as it requires a background in alchemy to even consider the issue.  The dyeing of cloth is more commonplace, but the use of bleaches, mordants and pigments is also a form of alchemy, albeit a more commonplace mystery in most civilized places.

Troll Art probably deserves a special mention, as it incorporates smell and texture in a way that human arts don't.  A human will breathe in next to a trollish cesspool and gag, while a troll will breathe in and smell a symbol of their whole community, united and even somewhat equal in their representation.  Trollish hovels will seem to be eclectic piles of stinky trash to humans, who only experience with their eyes, but to Trollish darksense, they will be filled with interesting juxtapositions of textures that their hands and even ears can differentiate, as well as interesting smells that may both comfort or attract interest, the way a sculpture might in a human dwelling.

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

We need to remember most PC are in the Fanatic/Extremely committed/Monomaniacal power acquisition category. Most people will not attend all holy day ceremonies, spend all free time developing new skills, learning new magics and obsessing about new magic items. They will slack all they can, never offer themselves volunteers, try to have minimal contact with powerful obsessed people like priests, shamans, sorcerers and PCs, and prefer if their interactions with the ruling powers are limited and very clear. 

I agree with this approach.  I think this will change depending on how much survival stress the ordinary people are under though.  If there is a war on or a natural disaster, they will definitely get more involved I think.  There is also a difference in regions where most adults are initiated into a cult.  They may not be fanatical, but they may also not be quite so slack, as this is their archetype they are serving, and there are tangible results.

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

They will prefer a bard in the local public house than traveling one day (even less a week) to see the Puppeteer Troupe. Hide their families when a troll caravan gets close, even if they will assemble in the militia if they are called, hoping those weaponthanes can solve the situation before the trolls reach the clan territory.

Agreed.  I suspect that most people will be leery about leaving their "tribal" territory, and will consider the nearest city to be the center of civilization and the nearest town to be huge and scary.

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

I have them preferring to sacrifice POW to the clan or town wyter so the chieftain can bless their unborn child, than spending days or weeks at the temple learning the magic, the myth and the power. And when they party at the harvest festival, of course they are thankful, but they do it because all their friends and relatives are there, not because the aloof mother goddess will appreciate it. Because if you draw her attention, interesting things will happen to you.

I think passions have a lot of importance in this.  High passions will mean more fanaticism, unless they are fears.

On 6/30/2023 at 9:45 PM, JRE said:

You do not want interesting things near. Interesting things is what sent so many people following Kallyr, and how many came back? It brought us the long winter, the Lunar raiders, the Telmori raiders and even the Lismelder. And now even the Grazers and some strange pirates are robbing our cattle.

Agreed.  Most ordinary people are happy pragmatists, willing to skate on by any troubles if their lives are somewhat comfortable.  They don't have the death wish necessary to become adventurers, and will only fight when it is pragmatically necessary.

Why is nobody actually talking about The Torvald Fragments and their history?  Lhankor My was the original custodian of the Eternal Book, which was stolen by Zzabur in the God's War.  Parts were recovered and became the Great Scrolls.  During the Second Age, the LM hero Torvald recovered the Alien Combination Machine and several Great Scrolls, and these became the foundation for the Torvald Fragments.  My understanding is that Torvald operated out of the Great Library in Nochet City, and that is where the original Torvald Fragments are presently housed, and is the origin point for LM sorcery.  If this is imperfect info, I am very eager to hear about it and would love to know where the sources are to be found.

On 4/11/2019 at 10:24 PM, GianniVacca said:

Good question. We had a Humakti-sanctioned duel in our RQ:G game last night and our warrior killed Branduan Hodirson. Now the GM has this threat of having to pay wergild looming over us.

Well that shouldn't culturally be the case.  A duel is a fight conducted in public with witnesses.  There is no issue of secret murder, and the participants are operating under the golden rule that they are prepared to do unto others as may be done unto themselves.  A death in a duel is under the protective aegis of the Death God, and should be considered a form of ritual performance.

Weregild is for when violence is unsanctioned.  When a drunken Uroxi kills a serving boy with a backhanded punch to the head... Weregild.  When two hotheaded farmers arguing over a fence line draw daggers and one dies... Weregild.  A formal and witnessed Humakti duel?  No weregild there.

9 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

I began to warm and chill
To objects and their fields
A ragged cup, a twisted mop
The face of Jesus in my soup
Those sinister dinner deals
The meal trolley's wicked wheels
A hooked bone rising from my food
All things either good or ungood…

Do I detect some Bad Seed?

31 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

One of the few things Greg was very clear on was that "the Lunars are not the bad guys".  You can give them black hats in your game, but then Your Glorantha Has Varied.

For the record, I think your points are questionable, but I'll leave that to others.

An Empire of Broos run by Ralzakark?  Seriously not the bad guys?  Anyone who thinks that should go and become a citizen of that empire and see what they do to you.  It is going to take some seriously demented illuminated doublethink to convince anyone that a Broo empire is not the bad guys.

On 5/22/2023 at 4:39 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Reading through Black Spear and seeing how green the map on p.70 looked I recalled Prax in general not being lush and green...

Any thoughts and thank you.

The fact is, Prax is starved for timber.  This carries over to Sun County an New Pavis.  Strangely enough the Aldryami aren't particularly interested in chopping down their forests to support human civilization either.  As you suggest, they may sell seeds, but then there is the issue of growing plantation timber in an area where nomad raids are plentiful and timber is in short supply.

In terms of arrows, the Praxians use a plant called arrow cane to provide the shafts of their arrows.  It grows well in arid conditions, and there is no reason why the followers of Yelmalio-Tharkantus wouldn't use it too.

In my Glorantha, Thrandred Clubfoot makes a seasonal caravan journey into Sartar where he picks up a load of timber which collects at Herongreen, and takes it east into Prax, where a certain proportion is earmarked for New Pavis and Sun County.  This amounts to many wagonloads, and is the sort of volume that mules couldn't hope to carry.   The caravan is a popular one due to its regularity and strong guard presence, and he picks up many other smaller merchants to join it.

On 5/28/2023 at 8:35 PM, mfbrandi said:

I get that, but suppose the Lunars had all sprouted third eyes and wormlike prehensile tails, and that they levitated for three hours every evening. What then? In my book, that still wouldn’t justify genocide.

No, what justifies the genocide is the fact that the Lunars have set out to destroy other people and their cultures, and THEN, when the tide turns, the Lunars choose to turn to the Enemies of All Existence, Chaos, and casually adopt those powers en masse, so they can continue with their plan, because their initial efforts had failed.  

4 hours ago, Snugz said:

Hello, a spoiler in case my players are on here-- don't read on, guys!

Why the Lightbringer Quest?  Perhaps try a Humakt or Zorak Zoran Hero Quest?  They are both deities associated with Arkat.  If Foyalfine were questing for the Unbreakable Sword, then it would make sense that he meet Arkat, who is likely still the owner of it.  There could be no better proof of his status as an Arkati than to own such a weapon.  

On 5/21/2023 at 2:25 AM, Erol of Backford said:

I assume Gonn Orta worked there for a while when he was young.

Like Conan in the movie?  (😆)

On 5/27/2023 at 2:34 PM, Richard S. said:

I don't think she exactly followed the "one adventure per season" model 😃

And that is one of many reasons why she failed.  Had she stuck to the one adventure per season model she would have renewed her RP.

On 5/22/2023 at 3:28 PM, soltakss said:

Professional intermediaries such as Heralds. 

I'm not sure Praxians have heralds, and I'm not sure Broos would understand who they were and what they represented.  I'm sure the heralds would be a bit butt-hurt if their important social role was not respected and they were captured by broos.

16 hours ago, soltakss said:

You send an intermediary, you don't deal with the Broos yourself.

FFS who in the Dark Hells would you send?  They will then implicitly be one more person in the shameful conspiracy.  One more mouth to spread the info, or blackmail you.  How many people would willingly do business with broos as an agent on your behalf?  How could you trust someone who consorts with chaos?  It will all end in tears and secret murder, I'm sure.

2 hours ago, Eff said:

So, they're like historical real-world mercenaries except they engage in somewhat more bestiality? 

I don't think broos have the same work ethic and grasp of economics as condotierri or landsknechts.  They at least understood that a reputation for unreliability meant they wouldn't get hired or re-hired.  Plus there is the whole thing of, "who in their right mind hires chaotics?".  I mean, if you worship Waha or Stormbull, surely you are inviting divine retribution by fraternizing with the enemy of all creation?

21 hours ago, Eff said:

Why would you suspect that? 

Because Broos are disease carrying, rapey and murderous, and offering them pay means getting up close to them?

On 5/18/2023 at 8:38 PM, mfbrandi said:

Indeed. We are all closer to cardboard cut-outs than Platonic forms.

I doubt archetypes are platonic forms.

18 hours ago, soltakss said:

They could, but they often hire out as mercenaries, so this is unlikely.

I suspect hiring broos as mercenaries is an extremely stupid thing to do unless they are extremely cheap to hire.

13 hours ago, mfbrandi said:

My tip for all the cultists out there: don’t worship god in your own image, leave the all-too-human gods to sarcastic atheists like me.

I think there is a strong tendency for humans to want to be gods.  Carl Jung for example was appalled by the fact that so many women wanted to become and be treated as avatars of the Mother Goddess.  It's all pure narcissism, of course.  It is also fair to suggest that anyone who doesn't understand that they are not an archetype is not spiritually advanced enough to achieve much spiritual growth/self knowledge either.  

That "My name is Legion" quote is much better than my Holy Trinity example. thanks mfbrandi.  👍

That being said, I'm not sure Yelmalio is a demon.  I didn't say you're wrong, just that I'm not sure.🤭

5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

 

Okay, you got me, I stand corrected....