Darius West

I think there are several types of Nobles in Sartar, but Richard S. has a good take on it.  A noble in Sartar is someone groomed for leadership, but there is also a measure of inheritance about it, though Sartar is pretty meritocratic and inclined to offer nobility to anyone who is a proven leader or a wise enough counsellor to warrant the attention of the local Ring.

Clearly anybody with a lineage that can be traced to the Royal House of Sartar is a capital "N" Noble, and has likely been chased by Lunar assassins their entire life by 1625.  Post 1625 they may be running from Argrath's assassins too, after his coronation.

A Hero is likely considered a noble regardless of birthright or lack thereof.

Any child of a Tribal King would be classed as a noble.

Any member of the Clan Ring of a Tribal King is a noble.

A Clan Chief is a noble.

Members of a clan ring are also nobles, but of a lesser variety.

Rune Lords and sometimes Rune Priests are lesser nobility.

Clan weaponthanes, thanes in general, and godspeakers are the lowest rung of nobility.

It seems fair that you can choose a spouse of noble status to have a measure of that status conferred upon oneself too, but that doesn't count for much if you are proven incompetent, foolish, intemperate, or profligate.

It is interesting to see the direction the rules are going in.

I am presently looking over the rules related to Shamanic Self-Resurrection, and I think I'd like a little clarification about them if people have the time.  Obviously some of these questions are very much up to the GM, but I'd like to hear what other GMs think, and what our resident Rules Lawyers think.

(1) If a shaman self-resurrects within an hour (a listed cost of 4 POW) does that imply that they have spent 4 POW to get themselves back to 1hp or is the cost actually 4 POW for each point of Spirit Magic Healing they perform from their deceased condition? 

(2) It seems that the longer you wait, the easier self- resurrection becomes.  At what point does it become free?  A year?  A century?  Can you actually GAIN POW if you remain dead long enough (I'm thinking about Jaldon Toothmaker and his long  death-sleep absences, and the Pendragon "sleep" rules for magic).

(3) It seems apparent that Shamans can completely refuse to enter the cycle of death and rebirth, choosing instead to hide out in or near their bodies.  Can they spend POW to cast disruption on scavengers who want to eat their remains? 

(4) What condition do Shaman bodies have to be in to be capable of self-resurrection anyhow?  Is cremation final for an Oakfed Shaman, or can they be fanned back from the embers of their pyre?

(5) If a shaman dies, what happens to their fetch if it is embodied in an animal?  Does the animal die?

(6) Do crystals and items attuned to a shaman become immediately de-attuned at the moment of death, or is the connection a little more resilient than that?

(7) As a related topic, if a Rune Lord or Rune Priest dies, and they have an allied spirit in an animal, does the animal die immediately?  I ask because some Shamans are also associated with cults that offer Allied Spirits.

(8) Is a shaman who dies able to summon back the spirits they previously had bound in crystals and matrices, a la the RQ3 "shamans learn the names of spirits once they defeat them, and can use those names to re-summon them" rules?  

On 10/23/2023 at 9:28 AM, Erol of Backford said:

...and also it seems the Pavis cult possessed a sorcery grimoire...

There may have been more than one Pavic Grimoire.  The Pavic cult of Iffinbix (associated with the Office of the City Sorcerer) also had an associated Grimoire.  Iffinbix was an Earth Cult which taught and used Sorcery.  They have squat square windowless temples with slanting slate roofs that can only be safely entered by someone who has consumed the root of an agipith plant. It is quite possible that the many Iffinbix temples were linked by teleportation circles that allowed them to be used as a communication network by the human communities of Rubble Survivors during the time the Rubble was closed, before the Dragonewts' Dream.

On 10/14/2023 at 12:11 PM, EricW said:

Argrath was pretty open about his draconic connection and other odd affiliations. I’m surprised the Lunars didn’t try to stir up old ways divisions.

I'm sure they will try.  

On 9/17/2023 at 3:06 PM, vegas said:

Executive summary: The demographic data stated and implied in 5e sources don't all fit together. Morien suggests we should assume a much larger population of Britain versus Book of Uther. I would suggest this creates new problems and severely over-shoots at fixing the discrepancies. Instead, real-world demographics and history suggest we should keep the population of Logres as indicated in BoU and reduce the average size of households in manor populations to reconcile the data.

Remember that Pendragon is set in a period when the population is rural in a way that modern demography doesn't handle well.  There will be people living in forests, hills, plains, and mountains in far greater profusion than the urban centers will suggest.  This is the age of the Manorial Economy, when things were extremely decentralized and your manor house could provide almost everything a knight needed, and the main thing that designated a town or a city was how many days a week the local market was open for.  Urban centers likely held under 10% of the population during this time and even a village of 400 people was a pretty big concentration of capital, with most people living close to a hamlet at best.  But... for all that, rural population density was a lot higher than today.

On 10/18/2023 at 4:20 PM, Shiningbrow said:

Oh, I know how it could be used. And that's profiteering nicely.

However, I was thinking in the context of lying to the entire congregation about needing to make this super-powerful enchanted object, because X deity said it should be so.... I don't think I can come up with a 'definable material object' for that.

I suppose the possibilities would largely depend on the deities where the enchantment is taking place.  Still, there are logical limitations on what is possible.  Say, that gives me of an idea for another topic...  Lottery Swords.

On 10/20/2023 at 8:31 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

 

1625, initiate of Babeester gor. Esrolian heavy infantery

spells Axe Transe, Shield, Slash =3RP / disrupt, , strength. skills : focus on 2H axe (>90%), orate & battle (target 75% if possible) , First aid (25%),  Animal Lore(25%), Plant Lore (25%).

then find a daka fal shaman in your family and start to learn spirit combat

 

1625  -1628 (end of the year). focus on 2H axe (>150%  need 60%) battle ( >100% need 25%), orate( >100% need 25%)

initiate Daka Fal

and learn shamanic skills with the rest : 90% = 4years * 50 =200 - (60+25+25)

learn bladesharp 4

add 1 RP per year (spell as you wish), and keep 1POW -> POW =19 = 15 + 8 -1(initiation) - 3 (rune pools, I prefer bab's pool -> 6RP)

 

1629 - 1631: focus on shamanic skills ( 100%. I would say that your spirit combat is > 120 or 150 ? ) and new pelorian (30% + comm bonus of course) then +20% in intimidate

add 4 RP in bab's (10) now your POW is 21 (19 + 6 - 4)

1632 become a DF shaman

depending on your success, try to obtain "spell extension (bladesharp is good)" then "soul expansion" (until 24, not during the initiation but during your career ?)

learn skills to become Eurmal initiate

POW: 15 (21 + 2 - 8 )

Fetch: 8

1633 visit Peloria, find a Eurmali murderer subcult. intimidate him/her. If you fail, kill and find another one. Then become murderer initiate.

learn crack (2) and strike (1)
then kill the eurmali.

 

for skill, raise Orate and shamanic skills. If your battle is not yet 100% try to get it

 

POW: 14 (15+2-3)

Fetch: 8

1634 back to your land

Find another eurmali, intimidate or charm. learn lie (of course what did you believe 😛 ). No need to kill the eurmali but if it is your pleasure don't hesitate

POW: 14 (14+2-2)

Fetch: 8

Bab's RP = 10 / Dak's RP = 1 / Eurmal RP = 5

1635 +

skills do what you want

Raise your POW  and your Fetch.

you are now able to hire a full army and conquer your own queendom.

with your battle skill you know if your army is superior of your opponent.

when your army is the strongest, use orate and lie to convince other to flee or betray (less deads in your army, next battle would be easier

when you army has 50% chance, use orate and lie to convince other to flee or betray. Now your army is the strongest

when your army is the weakest, challenge in a duel your opponent. Use Orate and lie to convince the ennemy that one death of a champion is better than hundreds deaths

You are your own champion (use bab's + eurmal murderer). In all cases your reputation will gain +10% or more per year. Powerful people will join you, you may visit godtime and become more and more powerful.

 

1650 age probably cannot impact you anymore. You have your own herocult, get POW sacrifice from your worshippers (= all your general, guards and politicians who want your protection). Nochet is undoubtedly your capital city. Ernalda priestesses are under your protection anywhere (if required with thick heads, like the feathered queen... well you are eurmal the murderer right ?)

POW 24

Fetch 100

Hero pool 20+,

Visit emperors (red, wind, east, west...), seduce them, tell them that their business are their business and their business stop at the boundary of your business (Esrolia ? + Sartar ?  + Seshnela ? and of course any Earth temples)

Make friends with merfolks.

Make friends with local anything (trolls, malkioni, ...)

Declare that under your rule, anyone can worship anyone if they keep peace with farmers  and merfolks

No tax for those who don't farm the Earth (wood and mine is considered as farming the Earth) but merchants and travelers have to organize and manage roads in harmony with earth temple.

 

1652 thanks to merfolk, visit Magasta, seduce him, get power from him.

Then you may decide to stop the Flood or...

you are eurmal the murderer initiate after all, and you can breath in deep water, so what's next

then visit the emperors, intimidate them, by offering them back all their drowned warriors bodies. Tell them that if they are not able to manage their business on earth as they don't know water... they have to ask themselves if their business should not be only middle air and sky. Earth and water should be the Queen's business, thanks goodbye.

This is great!  A very detailed plan, and a good abuse of the rules as written.  I am a little surprised that you didn't opt to abuse the possibility of a knowledge religion due to the training and earning advantages they provide.  Nevertheless, a 100POW Fetch is pretty indomitable, and this puts you in the lead for the Great Meataxe imo.

On 10/16/2023 at 9:34 PM, Shiningbrow said:

Just to rain on your parade - Divination Block relates only to a "definable material object". I'm not seeing how you'd make that work in this instance.

(personally, that seems a complete waste .... ok, sure you can't get who actually held the knife, but you could see or get information about the event through other questions/targets)

You raise a good point, but a definable material object can be made the subject of a lie and then div blocked.  For example:  This ratty old yurt is actually Yada's (son of Tada) underpants, and it grants great herd fertility, so why not trade one of your tribal treasures for it?

23 hours ago, g33k said:

In general, they "could" be; but often won't be revealed:  the Eurmali's Lie will be believed!  Why waste Rune Points checking on Known Facts???

By Lying to many at once, you also get the mutually-reinforcing community-driven "oh yes, everyone knows that!" effect.
 
And yes, Phil -- you clearly despise munchkinnery every bit as much as you despise the Lie spell.

Now imagine stacking that with Divination Block from Lanbril.

On 10/13/2023 at 8:35 PM, Shiningbrow said:

I just realised that I've been a complete non-Munchkin!!!!

Although the Lie to get a great Enhance INT spell fired off, I figure those hundreds of POW that the congregation is putting into the enchantment would maybe be better for more powerful spells - especially Rune spells!!!

 

I'm not going to go through the RBoM to decide which one would be best to win this competition's various categories.

THAT'S the spirit !

On 10/4/2023 at 7:25 AM, EricW said:

Argrath cheated 🙂

Yes. He's illuminated.  Illumination is indeed cheating.  This was Arkat's fundamental point, and it broke Nysalor/Gbaji.

15 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

This message brought to you by Mostal. Mostal - accept no growth, only making.

Tumors are growths, after all.

On 10/10/2023 at 1:44 AM, Joerg said:

Just takes a head...

That entirely depends on how overt your Thanatari is.  Heads are large, and hard to explain in public.  It is far less risky to just bookworm your way through scrolls and books in a library, especially when there are multiple copies and one might not be missed.  Consume Mind is far more high risk, but the rewards are great too.

On 10/9/2023 at 7:51 PM, Ian A. Thomson said:

I am working with several of the rumors and ideas from the original material,

I really want to say more, because the more I consider it, the more it makes sense in terms of being a place where some of the core goals of Pavis were explored (but Spoilers!)

It will be quite a large piece

Unequivocally.  The BKP is a big site, and may well go deep underground.

17 hours ago, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

I don’t know of any cases of pre-Wakboth non-awful Chaos that has survived

They are called plants actually.  They are one of the earliest manifestations of the Primal Plasma that is polluted by the Unholy Trio and becomes the Chaosium.

On 10/6/2023 at 8:29 PM, Ian A. Thomson said:

This is currently being rectified, but will not be in Vol. 04

I am eager to hear what you plan to do with the Blind King's Palace, Ian.  I am pretty sure that the worst monster in the place is a vampiric centaur with a colossal strength that would scare a Great Troll.

I am surprised that nobody is suggesting Lanbril and Thanatar in combination.  I mean, (consume book) "Who ate my library?" (casts divination only to discover it is Divination blocked).  

On 10/7/2023 at 11:57 PM, mfbrandi said:

He is pretty much the definition of what Storm Bull and company are against:

• [I]f some [anti-Chaos] cultists recognize, suspect, or receive reports of people asking odd questions or acting in a Socratic manner, they may strike out-of-hand to destroy the incipient Chaos before it spreads.
  — Cults of Terror (Classic), p. 86 [emphasis mine]

If we have to choose between eccentric old guys who generate aporia in the agora and the thugs who have taken it upon themselves to murder them, I side with the philosophers every time. And if this hastens the end of the world, the unexamined life was not worth living, anyway.

Yeah, right, because Stormbulls/Uroxi routinely slaughter Lhankor Mhys...  That's sarcasm btw.  And who says that you can't have a Stormbull Philosopher who still hates chaos and illuminates?  I would suggest that it is better to have a properly informed opinion about why such things are dangerous and evil, because they unequivocally are.

5 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

So, to address directly @Darius West's challenging question - What cults do you join in what order to make the most heinously OP character? - the answer is "Eurmal", and probably Irripi Ontor (as @davecake has said above!) Two steps - finished! (the sad thing is, it's actually probably quite easy to do this...)

Would you care to discuss which Rune Magics from Eurmal and Irripi Ontor you think would synergize the best?

20 minutes ago, David Scott said:

You get the first one automatically, and there will be examples on how to expand an adventurer's illumination, it's mostly based on their teachers. Suffice to say, to get all of the listed one may take years.

Fair enough, so the player should start their character at age 21 with 1 cult but then gets illuminated up to steps 6 and 7 by age 28 then?  Assuming one illumination power per year? 

20 hours ago, davecake said:

You think the Arkati object to.. acting like Arkat did
 

Yes I absolutely DO think that Arkat looked back on what he had done, with the benefit of hindsight, and was sufficiently self reflective to think he had done things he regretted. 

I would go so far as to suggest that Arkat set himself up as the counter-argument in the flesh to everything that Nysalor taught; showing exactly what was wrong with Nysalor's teachings and philosophy.  It was likely the only way he could have defeated Nysalor, as Nysalor could only look at Arkat and despair that everything Nysalor had said was wrong, and horribly abusable.

As a result, I think Arkat realized that the what he had done should not be repeated, and that is why he set up the Arkati in the form they exist. 

This may seem hypocritical, but consider.  Is it hypocritical for a drunken uncle who "seems so cool" to advise youngsters not to copy his life choices?  Is it hypocritical for a daredevil stuntman who has broken every bone in his body over his career and is in constant pain but "seems so cool" to advise youngsters against copying his life choices? Sometimes the voice of experience does seem hypocritical, but it doesn't mean that it is, or that its advice shouldn't be heeded.

20 hours ago, davecake said:

You think the Arkati object to.. acting like Arkat did
 

Yes I absolutely DO think that Arkat looked back on what he had done, with the benefit of hindsight, and was sufficiently self reflective to think he had done things he regretted. 

I would go so far as to suggest that Arkat set himself up as the counter-argument in the flesh to everything that Nysalor taught; showing exactly what was wrong with Nysalor's teachings and philosophy.  It was likely the only way he could have defeated Nysalor, as Nysalor could only look at Arkat and despair that everything Nysalor had said was wrong, and horribly abusable.

As a result, I think Arkat realized that the what he had done should not be repeated, and that is why he set up the Arkati in the form they exist. 

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Note that these are not now automatic illumination abilities. of the 8 abilities, everyone gets the first most get 2 & 3, then they start getting rarer. Power to Ignore Cult Restrictions is number 6, and Immunity to Spirits of Reprisal is number 7. (from the upcoming Nysalor cult). It's a rare individual that gets all 8 (and maybe some unique ones too)

That is actually good to hear.  If you don't mind me asking, how do you obtain the powers after illumination?  I would imagine that 6 and 7 would be extremely coveted for any potential spy (and I like running intrigue scenarios).

3 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

The god may have an opinion — and enforce it with a big stick — but why suppose that the god’s opinion is correct?

Well, that God's opinion is supported by an awful lot more information and power than a human can possibly comprehend.

4 minutes ago, mfbrandi said:

Asking the youth of Athens to think about the nature of the world and the good — that is “corrupting” them.

Socrates was charged with a lot more than that.  He was an outspoken anti-Democrat.  He was a supporter of the Thirty Tyrants, the ruthless oligarchic clique who ruled Athens as a puppet state on behalf of deeply fascist Sparta.  Socrates was not only charged with corrupting the youth of Athens, but with failing to acknowledge the gods of the city and with introducing new gods.  Socrates was also the lover of Alcybiades who was famously impious and led Athens in their disastrous Sicilian adventure, who was held up as an Athenian youth corrupted by Socrates.  In short, Socrates was far from a saint.