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Jeff posted over on the RQ FB page, and I thought it would be useful to cross-post here since he is a fascinating character, and there are some great tidbits within.

More notes people might enjoy. This time, Sir Ethilrist.
Ethilrist is sometimes thought to be an incarnation of Hrestol. He encountered Hrestol himself in the middle of Hrestol's own quest, ravaged Hell, and Ethrilrist gained great loot and his herd of 2600 Black Horse demons.
And yet. Ethilrist's followers worship Hrestol as a god and Ethilrist as demigod. And somehow gain Rune magic from Hrestol (!). And the magic includes such strange things as Shield, Darksword and Control Demon (and I've even seen rumours of Command Chaos!). And yet, Ethilrist is known to offer worship to the Invisible God, and trains a few sorcerers to serve him.
Some think there are deeper secrets known only to the inner circles of the cult. That Ethilrist worships the Eternal Hero, or even the Anti-Hero or the Hero's Shadow. Others claim he is a secret Arkat and that his cult is an Arkati fraud. Ethrilist knows the Red Emperor well (and personally dislikes him, although often serves him), many of the Feathered Horse Queens, and many others. He has likely long since transcended anything resembling Malkionism, but it is known that his runes are Man, Mastery, and Darkness. However, the Troop as a whole is commonly identified with Darkness and Harmony.
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3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Jeff posted over on the RQ FB page, and I thought it would be useful to cross-post here since he is a fascinating character, and there are some great tidbits within.

More notes people might enjoy. This time, Sir Ethilrist.
Ethilrist is sometimes thought to be an incarnation of Hrestol. He encountered Hrestol himself in the middle of Hrestol's own quest, ravaged Hell, and Ethrilrist gained great loot and his herd of 2600 Black Horse demons.
 

So Ethilrist dates back to the First Age?  I did not know that.

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6 hours ago, John Biles said:

Ethilrist dates back to the First Age

I didn't read it like this.  If your encountering someone on a HeroQuest, then that doesn't make you necessarily contemporaneous (with about 5 attempts to make the red squiggles go away). 

Also:

10 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Ethilrist is sometimes thought to be an incarnation of Hrestol

I'd interpret that being an incarnation would mean not being contemporaneous...

But thanks muchly Jajagappa.

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On 10/30/2020 at 4:51 AM, Stephen L said:

...

I'd interpret that being an incarnation would mean not being contemporaneous...

...

I think the point is that there's Something Odd going on.

Conflicting accounts, contradictory accounts... that may, somehow, still actually be correct...  Or maybe not.
 

The thing here is:  not only Your Gloranthat May Vary, but Your Glorantha MUST Vary, if it is to make sense...

Edited by g33k
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13 hours ago, g33k said:

Conflicting accounts, contradictory accounts... that may, somehow, still actually be correct...  Or maybe not.

Perhaps Ethilrist is the Shadow of Hrestol?  

It's also interesting to see the overlap of Rune magic from a western 'master' suggesting that there are simply multiple pathways from which to invoke the powers of magic. 

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16 hours ago, jajagappa said:

It's also interesting to see the overlap of Rune magic from a western 'master' suggesting that there are simply multiple pathways from which to invoke the powers of magic. 

I think that what Hrestol became a Saint Master for and the Rune Magics that one can obtain from him are different things.  

This really riffs upon what Jeff said about practical God-Learning (for the Loskalmi).  Instead of worshipping the Gods, the Brithini would have rune paths in which they acquire Rune Magic to be better fighters.  But there were some places they couldn't go without losing their way (and dying of old age).  Hrestol with his contact with the Invisible God on the other hand was able to go down Darker Paths and get stronger magics.  So while the truths that he teaches is admirable to the Malkioni, the magics that he obtained in using those truths is  far less praiseworthy (and played up by the Rokari and the God Learners to defame the knights Men-of-All)   

One could worship Hrestol to obtain those magics (which would be decidedly unmalkioni) and something practiced only by barbarians.  The more orthodox route, which Ethilrist would IMO pursue, would be to follow in the path of Hrestol and gain the same magics that he did on his quest.  

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10 minutes ago, metcalph said:

I think that what Hrestol became a Saint Master for and the Rune Magics that one can obtain from him are different things.  

This really riffs upon what Jeff said about practical God-Learning (for the Loskalmi).  Instead of worshipping the Gods, the Brithini would have rune paths in which they acquire Rune Magic to be better fighters.  But there were some places they couldn't go without losing their way (and dying of old age).  Hrestol with his contact with the Invisible God on the other hand was able to go down Darker Paths and get stronger magics.  So while the truths that he teaches is admirable to the Malkioni, the magics that he obtained in using those truths is  far less praiseworthy (and played up by the Rokari and the God Learners to defame the knights Men-of-All)   

One could worship Hrestol to obtain those magics (which would be decidedly unmalkioni) and something practiced only by barbarians.  The more orthodox route, which Ethilrist would IMO pursue, would be to follow in the path of Hrestol and gain the same magics that he did on his quest.  

The path which Ethilrist took was Hrestol's, at least in part, but the path his cult takes is not. 

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I do like the comment about Ethilrist not personally liking the Red Emperor, despite fighting for him on various occasions, and knowing him well. (Maybe that's why he doesn't like him, knows him too well.) It's little touches like that, that humanise the otherwise almost unknowable demigod type characters running around. (Like the fact Harrek is rather fond of waffles*)
The question arises though, did Ethilrist like previous Red Emperors, or is it just the current one who he dislikes?


(*Harrek the Berserk may or may not actually like waffles. YGWV)

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22 hours ago, jajagappa said:

It's also interesting to see the overlap of Rune magic from a western 'master' suggesting that there are simply multiple pathways from which to invoke the powers of magic. 

The section in the back of the HW players' book that explicitly laid out sacrificing to saints and such comes to mind. It was more expensive in terms of HP spent on advancement to gain magic the "wrong" way, but it worked.

HW had playable-level detail on the county, Atroxic church. and the Troop, which is rad. 

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56 minutes ago, JonL said:

HW had playable-level detail on the county, Atroxic church. and the Troop, which is rad. 

I'm guessing that the Atroxic Church will be changed. The HW version is all about austerity/dourness/purging of sin and that kind of thing, I am not sure if that fits in with the current RQ/Glorantha vibe.

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13 hours ago, John1000 said:

I do like the comment about Ethilrist not personally liking the Red Emperor, despite fighting for him on various occasions, and knowing him well. (Maybe that's why he doesn't like him, knows him too well.) It's little touches like that, that humanise the otherwise almost unknowable demigod type characters running around. (Like the fact Harrek is rather fond of waffles*)
The question arises though, did Ethilrist like previous Red Emperors, or is it just the current one who he dislikes?
 

Ethilrist is a hard-bitten Malkioni mercenary warrior; the current Red Emperor is basically old, sad Elvis, who lacks the energy to even be creatively decadent.

I have to imagine that the Red Emperor ruling despite being useless annoys him deeply.

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Ethilrist's dislike for the Red Emperor probably stems from earlier Masks - I doubt that he had much opportunity to meet with Argenteus. He will have served under the previous masks, though.

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Maybe Ethilrist has some manner of Heroic insight to see past the Masks to whatever semblance of essential self lies beyond, and doesn't like that. Who knows. 

 

Also, I agree with @John1000, it's a neat detail, a little "Alexander the Great gets told off by Diogenes"-vibe to it, in the sense that we get to see how remarkable historical characters interact.

Edited by Sir_Godspeed
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On 11/1/2020 at 11:42 PM, Jape_Vicho said:

May I ask why is the Troop identified with Harmony? Maybe I have interpreted their lore wrong but to me they always looked pretty Disorder.

After they've fed their enemies to their horses, there's no disorder left.

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On 11/1/2020 at 3:42 PM, Jape_Vicho said:

May I ask why is the Troop identified with Harmony? Maybe I have interpreted their lore wrong but to me they always looked pretty Disorder.

Probably the same reason that Jar-Eel the Razoress, most noted for murdering the Pharoah, has Harmony, when she leaves a trail of bodies in her wake.

 

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8 hours ago, John Biles said:

Probably the same reason that Jar-Eel the Razoress, most noted for murdering the Pharoah, has Harmony, when she leaves a trail of bodies in her wake.

If she were most noted for killing the Phaorah, wouldn't she be "Jar-eel the Murderess"?  No, that's the nickname of Argrath's favorite trickster.

More seriously and less biased, there's many things about her that, IMO, are more notable than killing the Phaorah.  Her Razor, her Lyre, Beatpot, being an Inspiration of Moonson, fighting Harrek, and storming Whitewall (or was it Boldhome?)  Six without really thinking very hard.

I do like your take on old sad useless Fat Elvis.

Edited by Rodney Dangerduck
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13 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

If she were most noted for killing the Phaorah, wouldn't she be "Jar-eel the Murderess"?  No, that's the nickname of Argrath's favorite trickster.

More seriously and less biased, there's many things about her that, IMO, are more notable than killing the Phaorah.  Her Razor, her Lyre, Beatpot, being an Inspiration of Moonson, fighting Harrek, and storming Whitewall (or was it Boldhome?)  Six without really thinking very hard.

I do like your take on old sad useless Fat Elvis.

She isn't called the Razoress because she's good at shaving people.  She goes out and kills people for Monsoon.  Murder is her job and it's what she's good at.

And Argath's massive bodycount is another issue.

To be fair, Beat-Pot Aelwin is a demonstration of her Harmony Rune in action  

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On 11/4/2020 at 12:49 AM, John Biles said:

Probably the same reason that Jar-Eel the Razoress, most noted for murdering the Pharoah, has Harmony, when she leaves a trail of bodies in her wake.

 

Well but that actually makes sense, because his Disorder creates Harmony, in the same way Death creates Life, and Sedenya's Chage works towards the definitive Stasis. 

(JK. Unless...)

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