Nevermet

New bad theories about Maniria:

The Ryzel hills are the body of Aroka.

Entru is the Horned Man

Hi there.  I was curious if I could get some input on something.

I'm slowly working on some ideas on Maniria, trying to update it to bring it in line with RQG mechanically and setting-wise post-Guide.  In that vein, I'm starting to work on Homelands.  Here's what I have as a list of potential homelands:

1. Manirian - Rural Orlanthi tribes of interior Maniria
   • Includes the Bastis, Nimistori, Solanthi, Legrosi, Ditali, and Dokoli
      
2. Trader Prince & Citizen - Urban population linked more to the Manirian Road than the land
   • Includes most of the Trader Prince cities
      
3. Wenelian - Survivors of Slontos along the New Coast, culturally and politically distinct from the Trader Princes of the interior
   • Includes Kaxtorplose, Fay Jee, and Peelo
      
4. New Fens - Marsh-dwelling culture comprised of a blending of Ralian immigrants and Slontan survivors
   • Includes Handra
      
5. Auloring - Slontan survivor population that fled far up river 
    
6. Hsunchen
   • Pralori elk
   • Mraloti boar
   • Caroni mountain goat (very rare)
      
7. Ramalian - Slontan Survivor Population that fled to the extreme southwest of Maniria
   • Includes Valekos, Alatan, & Khorst
      
8. Veskarthan - The Volcano worshippers of the West Hills, Howler, and Pelushi that are religiously and politically affiliated with Caladraland, even if they are politically independent
   • Includes Solung

Part of the problem is I'm not completely sure when it is appropriate to make 2 homelands, or make 1.

For example, there appears to be a rather dramatic urban/rural split between the Trader Princes and their Manirian "subjects" that (at least for the Solanthi and Ditali) threw in with Greymane.  Another example is the Aulorings, who I could conceive of as part of the New Fens homeland, or as something distinct.

And yes, I realize "maximum fun" is a standard, but it's a very abstract one for this question.  Does anyone have suggestions about how to conceptualize homelands?  Does my list seem like it makes sense?

I no longer live in the US, but my entire family does, and I can still vote there.

I hope for many things to happen there.  Some are more likely than others.

As for the original question, I appreciate the shorthand of being able to tell my players a little something about a site or a person or something from the runes they find.  I feel it is useful to maintain feel without requiring they memorize a lot of setting info.

7 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

All I know is that if I was in glorantha I would have the fertility rune embroided on my trousers

Belintar, as depicted in recently shared art: "Pfft.  Trousers." 😉

Somebody goes on a heroquest to create a Loper Light Cavalry unit.

Not sure who or why, but it happens.

Also, more generally when it comes to Chaos in Maniria:

• Lots of random Chaos monsters coming out of the scars of the Flood and the Devastation.  The Poison Shore likely is a horrible place to live.  There are likely pockets in the New Fens that nobody wants to touch, but as Handra grows they will need to figure out how to cleanse them.
• The sorcery of Ramalia will clearly get Chaotic.  Most of the time, societies and polities in Glorantha are rather gray: There is something noble about them, and there is something unjust about them.  Given that Jeff has described Ramalia as a giant concentration camp... I think it is safe to say it is an exception.
  • (As an aside: PC mercenary heroes hired to help liberate Ramalia is definitely part of the hero wars.  Whether or not they win is another matter.)
• Hero Wars prophecy of Maniria: An Army of Broos shall attempt to breach the Arstola.  They say that, high in the Mislari, there is an empty city, their lost homeland, and they have come to reclaim it.  They say to all who will listen that upon their arrival, Ragnaglar will live again, and madness shall flow like water.  ...But who believes a Broo?

29 minutes ago, Darius West said:

I'll see you and raise you seven mothers.😜

One of the interesting things about late 3rd Age history in Maniria is I am absolutely sure there are Lunars who see it as a land of opportunity.  "What's that?  Tons of natural resources and Godlearner ruins?  A local warlord who wants to build a dynasty by burning Esrolia?  Half-Forgotten blue moon magic?  Oh, I'm f#cking there!!!"  But, sadly for the Lunars, they don't get too far: We know they are trying to influence Greymayne, and they succeed at that halfway through the Battle of Pennel Ford, but ... it also doesn't go well.  With the Lunars pushed out of the Holy Country, Maniria's future is only related to the Lunar Empire in the most indirect ways.

Also, at no point am I claiming Ompalaman Ogres are uniquely good at corrupting political institutions and bending them to their goals in Genertela as a whole, just that "normal" Ogres generally don't do that.

I really enjoyed this

I am now trying to think of anything worth typing.

yep.  I am, promise!

5 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Your Glorantha Will Vary, but it is worth pointing out that the description of Lonisiland and the Haradlaro in the Guide bears absolutely no resemblance to the fan "Haranding" description in Tradetalk. Lonisiland is the most traditional "Orlanthi" part of Esrolia and bears the most resemblance to the Ditali and Solanthi.

Thanks for this.

My (limited) understanding of the Harandings come primarily from Stafford Library sources at this point, though the lines between "Entruling", "Manirian", and "Haranding" is a bit blurry.  This isn't a criticism, mind you; I'm just acknowledging the continuity issues are a bit tangled still on this (relatively peripheral) setting issue.

Addendum to the above: it involves Newtlings spiritually unifying with a wyvern, cuz why not

A Eurmal cult becomes a powerful force in Maniria, much to the chagrin of.... everyone.

However, they are quite effective at ruining the best laid plans of the Elves and the Ramalians, so it's not all bad.  Just mostly bad.

I haven't wrote one of these in a while.  So, I am returning with what I hope will be a fun discussion of Maniria: CHAOS!

Usually, I start with a general background post or two, and then go into some specifics.  I'm not going to do that this time for a few reasons.  First, there is almost no discussion of Manirian Chaos in the Guide, so it is harder for me to summarize the "canon" position.  I suppose that could mean Maniria is an extremely low Chaos region, but (1) where's the fun in that, and (2) that seems extraordinarily unlikely given its history.  So, instead, this post will start with a quote from Jeff, and then I'm going to babble about Manirian Ogres who I argue are distinct, because I'd imagine Ogre culture varies by region as much as human culture does.

So, over in the thread on the Holy Country, Jajagappa quoted Jeff:

On 3/13/2021 at 5:57 PM, jajagappa said:

And what's going on in Maniria, you might ask.

The early Third Age was spent stabilizing the lands from the disasters that ended the Second Age. As is common in such turmoil, Chaos found the opportunity to strike and grow. Mallia spread wide her maw, broo raped their way to strength, and a small ogre kingdom tried to gain ascendancy along the Vankthi River before being smashed by otters, newtlings, and an unusual collection of werebeast magicians summoned for the special occasion.

So, two things catch my eye in this quote:

• As most would expect, a massive catastrophe like the Sinking of Slontos creates fertile ground for Chaos to flourish.  I'd also imagine the Devastation of the Vent created a similar Chaos bloom in eastern Maniria also.
• Less expected, however, is the phrase, "a small ogre kingdom tried to gain ascendancy along the Vankthi River."  I want to make sense of that

Lets acknowledge that Ogres aren't "Chaotic Stupid": they aren't so blindly committed to Chaos that they aren't able to plan or coordinate action.  That said, they don't tend to take over or rule.  Partly, this is because of their magical resources: Cacodemon doesn't really give people the resources to become rulers.  Also, it's a matter of context: a small network of Ogres on the margins of human society will likely try to erode that society rather than foment revolution.  However, this second point is false in Maniria after the Sinking.  An Ogre in Highwater could be forgiven for looking at the destruction, shrugging and going, "Well.  Mission accomplished I guess?  ...Now what?"  

What comes next, it appears, is an interim state of affairs where Ogres create and rule a state-level society with the intent of collecting the resources necessary create a stable flow of humans to eat, and to conduct a large number of Cacodemon rituals.  Yes, the eventual goal is still complete ruin of everything (ALL HAIL THE CACODEMON), but compromises must be made in the meantime.

And now I get to the weird bit: to help build their Kingdom of Ogres, Manirian Ogres worship another Chaos deity that will help maintain & centralize political power.  This Chaos deity is rarely worshipped in Genertela by anyone, but the Ogres of Slontos would likely know about him: Ompalam, the God of Slavery and degenerate centralization.  Ompalam would be a perfect secondary deity to Ogres with dreams of creating a kingdom that would export Cacodemon cults into the rest of Genertela.  Manirian Ogres whisper dreams of centralization into the ears of the Trader Princes, Greymayne, and the Takers of Ramalia.  Order today for lawlessness and destruction tomorrow.

There will, of course, be purist Ogres who oppose Ompalam's worship by Ogres at any level, and there will be zealots who think Ogres should really give up on Cacodemon and prioritize worship of Ompalam in the name of tasty tasty humans.

....Does this work?

Newtlings are fallen Dragonewts... who can be redeemed and return to Newt status.

On 7/17/2021 at 9:04 AM, Eff said:

We know that Arkat worship was maintained in Halikiv and Guhan by Uz in the cult of Arkat Kingtroll. I think this is probably not directly related to the seven listed incarnations, because what we know about Arkat Kingtroll (offers a pathway to understanding sorcery, Arkat as the greatest of Uz, who successfully hid in human skin for decades before bursting out, Arkat the founder of a realm where Darkness could walk freely on the earth) suggests most, if not all, of these variants. So perhaps instead Arkat Kingtroll is a unified vision of these seven which is only really available to trolls.

I love this idea so much

IMG, Gagarth is popular among certain Haranding warbands.

On 7/5/2021 at 7:28 PM, moonwolf8 said:

It turns out the villagers are descended from the supporters of a group of God Learner Hero Questers who were trying to replace Orlanth with St. Hrestol in the story of freeing Heler the rain goddess.

Exhibit #1,347 on why Maniria is just permanently screwed up thanks to the Godlearners

😉

I really wish I had more to say or comment, since this is Important Stuff (tm)

10 minutes ago, simonh said:

See up-thread, but basically Greg was a student in Wisconsin for a while.

sorry I missed that

Hmm

I think I could imagine a "What my Grandfather Told me" type document for vampires and ogres.  I can't for other chaotic sentients.

In both cases, there's a disdain for the world as it is, though ogres and vampires go in extremely different directions.

Ogres wish to feast upon humans and destroy the the landscape by summoning the cacodemon.  I'm quite sure ogre religion & spirituality is about how the very fabric of reality is evil and must be ritually destroyed to allow for some sort of good end or rebirth.  They know they are outnumbered, though, so they work through conspiracies and secret families.

Vampires, OTOH, don't consider themselves chaotic IIRC.  They simply feel no need to be constrained by the "natural laws" of Glorantha, including the laws of life & death.  They are egoists and nihilists to an extreme.

I asked this on FB, but could someone explain the "Wisconsin era" thing?  

Jeff hinted it may be a political dicey thing in some way, so I can accept if the answer is "no".

...yeah, I guess it is easy to explain, huh

sigh... I hate when I'm accidentally pretentious lol

One of my goals this summer is to get through some of the Stafford Library and try to figure out this, and the versions of the Orlanthi pantheon more generally in Maniria.

I strongly suspect Stormbull has a presence of some kind, and that if anything, it will somehow be a mirror of Prax, since I generally assume that Maniria is generally a mirror of Prax (don't ask, can't explain that)

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

I would go with finishing a thing, although that is easier said than done. I have 3 supplements that I am working on and two more than I am sketching out, so I am the last person to comment on finishing things.

Don't bother too much thinking about what people will want to buy.

If you don't think it will sell many copies, be careful with how much you spend making it. Cut down on artwork costs, use stock art, think about whether you need an editor, think about whether you need a fancy front cover. That reduces the reliance on whether people will want to buy it.

What people want to buy:

• Background
• Scenarios
• NPC Writeups

Maps have that special little place that people like maps but don't often buy them for some reason. I have bought all the Jonstown Compendium maps and have found them useful.

Other than the ideas, the easiest thing is writing it up.  it's the other stuff like artwork and layout and everything that makes my brain bluescreen.

Also, when it comes to Glorantha, I think in terms of HQG rules which... lets just say I need to expand that lol

But this is probably not the right thread for me to ask more questions and have a panic attack