Nevermet

2 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Easy solution: Write Jonstown Compendium supplements and use them to pay for other RQ supplements.

Write Jonstown Compendium supplements people are willing to buy and use them to pay for other RQ Supplements.

Between actually finishing a thing and finishing a thing others want, I fear I am dead twice over. 😉 

Jeff is gonna bankrupt me with how gorgeous these books are

I love this.

ooo... Lodril is Entru!  THATS A FUN ONE!

....I need to drink less coffee.

5 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

ITYM the Horny Man.

Thought that was Lodril 😉

Entru is just another name of the Horned Man.

1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

I mean, just ask them!

Do... Do I have to?

Wrong thread... trying to figure out how to delete...

Noted!

(Also, Ive lost the ability to react to posts, so the posts are gonna keep flying)

(And I hope my Manirio-mania isn't getting too old)

1 minute ago, Jeff said:

The pseudo-Malkionism in Maniria is pretty far-gone from Rokarism. They accept the Invisible God, and recognise the Trader Princes as the talar caste. The Trader Princes claim descent from Froalar and Garzeen, and thus worship Issaries as their direct ancestor.  Their cult practices are by now nearly indistinguishable from Lightbringer worship elsewhere in the Holy County, except that the Trader Princes gain their power and authority from their descent from Issaries. The Orlanth and Ernalda cults dominate the rural majority, although the local Grain Goddess is often worshiped independently, and Caladra & Aurelion, Lodril, and Heler are comparatively significant cults.

In short, they don't look much at all like what was in Blood Over Gold.

Yeah, I didn't think they looked like the BoG Asharan Church any more.  I also assume whatever veneer of Malkionism that exists in Maniria ends with the city walls - the Manirians of the forests and hills probably feel the Invisible God is something the City-Folk get to worry about and isn't their problem.

And thank you about the Garzeen comment - i've been wondering about that!

3 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Maybe in Arrolia? Carmania?

Possibly?  I'm not an expert, but but I'm very curious about how Lunarism mutates separate from the Empire in Arrolia.  And as for Carmania, they definitely have a notion of "Righteous Truth" that I feel isn't quite the same as Rokari logic.

But, I mean... I'm me, which at this point is a sadly predictable thing: If there is an indigenous form of (Henotheistic) Malkionism broadly construed among the Manirian Trader Princes, I'd argue it is about diplomacy and argumentation more than logical proofs. (And IMG Kaxtorplose, it begins with engineering, be it literal or metaphorical).

5 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

So does this mean Rokari-dominated areas actively suppress cults?

That's been my understanding on them for quite a while now?

I'm now imagining Malkioni sects that still accept Malkioni materialism & monotheism - that the foundation of Creation is an invisible God and the basic forces of the universe They created - but rejects LOGIC! as the way to access it.  In short, an ecstatic Malkionism that insists emotion and feeling are as valid for understanding the basic forces and imposing ones will as Reason, if not more so.

EDIT: Or, if I live down to my self-imposed title of being an Asharan sophist, the development of personal virtue and the knowledge it creates is more important than logic and the knowledge of proofs.

...I may have had too much coffee.

I understand the need to prioritize publications, but I'm very curious to see what a Malkioni religion & culture looks like in a Chaosium publication.

The Sourcebook is great.  IMHO, someone could run a lot of solid games and have a handle on the setting with that and the RQG slipcase trio (GM-screen, Beastiary, core rules).  If your goal is to run and play games in the heart of the setting, that'd be plenty for you.  

The more you want to really do deep dives that border on academic research on the setting, including setting games in other times & places, then that's when you go for the other stuff.

Only things I have to add:

• Castelein is currently a rather undefined figure.  In Blood Over Gold, he was a saint and a source of merchant wizardry.  In the Guide, all we know is he (1) started in Ralios, (2) forged a trade route to Esrolia, (3) married a spruce Aldryami and had a half-elven child, (4) went to the Underworld and returned, and (5) his body and possessions were turned into 52 relics used by Trader Prince wizards.  Partly based on that last point, he was a Malkioni IMG, but that's not something I can prove through extant texts.  Whether he was an ascended master or not goes even farther into IMG (I have outlandish and irresponsible thoughts on the matter).
   
• Like Caselein, one can argue about Kaxtor's life and whether he was a Malkioni, though again like Caselein I believe he was a Malkioni.  However, he is definitely considered an ascended master by the inhabitants of Kaxtorplose, where he is viewed as a human incarnation of the Invisible God.  Outside that small city, he's probably only known to a few Arkati in Ralios.
   
• I'm not 100% sure, but I think that Atrox may qualify as an ascended master, though nobody in the Third Age follows his teachings save for Ethilrist's Black Horse Troop.

Also, skimming the Guide, here are some other ways the Reforestation could intersect with western Hero Wars:

• Hezel Darong
  • a new (?) chaos goddess and her followers invade Karia
  • A new Elven forest may actually be seen as the cavalry arriving against this enemy, as opposed to attacking humanity.
• Garundyer & the Throne Kings Alliance
  • I don't know Garundyer very well, but a hero looking to revitalize Orlanth worship and open up High Llama Pass to increased travel will likely not be a fan of The Reforestation
• The 5 Arkats
  • I doubt but am unsure that any of the Arkats will really be pro-Reforestation.  Some may be more actively opposed, however.  Arkat the Troll will likely not be a huge fan.  I forget if Arkat the Peacemaker returns, but if he does, he could be reasonably ok with Reforestation under the right circumstances.

2 hours ago, scott-martin said:

Love it. This is our last chance to see White Elf stuff, so why not have someone try to bring them back. 

Ditto all the detailed Elf Boats (and Blue Elf) lore that has circulated over the years but rarely found a home in the contemporary setting. Once they take to the sea again they are unlikely to abandon it immediately and we have a few decades to fill.

I admit that I don't really have a solid grasp on White Elfs, Blue Elfs, and Elf Boats

9 hours ago, Snugz said:

Maybe no longer (to be) canon, but maybe who cares-- [SPOILER]

  Hide contents

The elves are on the Boat Planet in Gathering Thunder and leap off early on, to do some secret quest at Flowers constellation, so yes they're gathering seeds, from "seafaring", and in the Sky Realm. (I do wonder if this is White Elf resurrection stuff too?)

 

Because I am silly, I am now thinking about Gloranthan Spelljammer.

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

Strange purple trees and forests?  Influenced by the Luathan to feed upon the blood of Man and give the land a twilit glow...  Something not even the aldryami were expecting, perhaps.

According to the Guide, the Reforestation magic required seeds acquired from across the world, all brought back to Arstola.  Figuring out how to travel to Teshnos and Pamaltela may prove difficult and require bargains with some unsavory folk.

And who are the most unsavory, but who are always ready to make a deal?  I'm sure the Vadeli would be all too happy to help.

EDIT: Correction - the Reforestation did not require seeds from Pamaltela, but they did need to get to Teshnos, which probably implies seafaring.

23 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

TLDR I think every forest will make its own choice and it will be exciting, but ultimately much of the new growth will be as transient as the illusory New Tama Forest the raccoons in one of my favorite movies conjure up as a last gesture and really not as a viable strategy at all. 

My knowledge is anchored in Maniria, which is a very different experience for the Aldryami than Ralios or Fronela.

However, in Maniria?  IMG, the Arstola Forest is dominated by a regime of Mreli who have learned much from watching the Gbaji Wars, the Godlearners of Slontos, the Only Old One, and Belintar.  For Arstola, the Reforestation is an act of not just ecological growth, but military expansion.  Push the Mostali into the earth, send the Uz back to Hell, and humans are either to be subjugated or dispatched.  According to the Guide, the New Forest isn't just inconvenient to land use but is "hostile to dwarves, trolls, and most humans." (emphasis mine).

Dissension among the Aldryami in Maniria take two forms.  First, I doubt that Tarinwood will perfectly share Arstola's plans.  Second, and more interesting for campaigns, the Trader Princes have two strong points of contact with the Elves: The isolated but powerful fortress of Tallcastle, kept safe by sacred agreements its humans dare not break; and Yolanda, named after Caselein the Traveller's Vronkali (not Mreli) wife and where she raised their daughter.  ...I strongly suspect that Tallcastle, Yolanda, and the Arstola leadership will not all have the same vision for Reforestation.

But I at least have an inkling of how this plays out in Maniria.  I have next to no idea how this plays our in Ralios, Fronela, or Carmania.

(Also, yes.  The Aldryami wear hats.  I don't make the rules)

12 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Yes, and they'll turn to 3-4 allies:  trolls (eat those forests!), dwarves (poison and uproot the forests!), possibly giants (stamp down the forests!), and everyone's favorite, Oakfed!  The fires are going to rage across Genertela!

For some reason, I didn't think of the giants. 

Also, part of me wants to put on my Aldryami hat and scream, "For Genert's sake!  Y'all should be on our side!!!"

Sorry for the thread necromancy, but Here's a question: How successful is the Reforestation, in terms of re-covering the land with dense, primal forest?

I realize the Aldryami goal is "a new Green Age," but I assume their goal for the initial Reforestation is what Genertela looked like at the Dawn:

Now, I'm assuming it isn't quite this successful.  But, one of the interesting things about the Reforestation to me is how much it interrupts the Hero Wars of the silly humans: Carmania (IIRC) is going to want to save Fronelan Lunar cities from the Kingdom of War.... but then the Reforestation pops up.  And in general, how does the Reforestation complicate the War Against War?  It also apparently will disconnect Guhan from Halikiv, and Doraster from Ralios.  Maniria is squashed.  And does the Reforestation reach west enough to frustrate Seshnela? (Probably not, though it will be isolated from some regions)

And I realize we've touched on this a bit in both this and other threads, but Reforestation is going to result in death and destabilization for human polities.  Farms will be destroyed wholesale, and I am unsure the entire population will be able to pick up hunting & gathering fast enough.  From a human POV, the Reforestation will be an ecological disaster.  Narratively, it is an out-of-the-blue wrinkle for Western Hero Wars (plus Carmania & Dorastor).

EDIT: Also, I'm kinda looking forward to the Char-Un being attacked by trees.  They've earned it.

EDIT EDIT: Plus things will likely be ugly in and around Rist.

1 minute ago, scott-martin said:

It's hard but it's the world we have.

Yeah, that's why I added my edit.