daskindt

30 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The human Kitori would speak both Heortling (i.e. same as Sartarite) and Darktongue. The trolls would speak Darktongue, though AA traders would know Heortling.

When did Esrolian and Heortling dialects begin to separate?

Sorry to necro this thread, but my question is Kitori relevant and thought I would try to keep it all together.

What human language would the Kitori of the Hero Wars era speak? Those centered around the Troll Woods?

Would they speak a variant of Esrolian, as they came from region?

Would they speak a variant of Heortling, as they’ve occupied a region between Sartar and Heortland for several centuries?

1 hour ago, g33k said:

KS campaign?

Kickstarter campaign for Fantasy Grounds 2.

There was an official comment on Facebook (I believe) that they’re working on it, but it will be later. They said it was being worked on while the KS campaign was live, but RQ support wouldn’t be coming as part of the KS.

15 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

Will Elmal get a nice subsection?

Don’t hold your breath. Seriously. Just don’t.

On 5/9/2019 at 8:25 AM, Robin "RoM" Mitra said:

I have a Broken Tower question, too, and hope nobody objects to using this thread.

I am running the Broken Tower scenario in my Eleven Lights series, with player characters coming from the standard Red Cow clan. For that I relocated the tower to Wulfsland on the old Maboder territory. What are your suggestions how Jomes Wulf could react once they break him the news of Idrima's existence and her temple on his land?

I’ve wondered about how/where to transplant the Broken Tower for the Eleven Lights campaign. I might steal your idea. Thanks!

10 hours ago, Jeff said:

The old conflict between Elmal partisans and Yelmalio partisans reappears!

Simple way of looking at this - the Elmal (sub)cult is associated with Orlanth, the Yelmalio cult is neutral. The gods fought in the Gods War, but also cooperated together in the Gods War. Orlanth has few non-Chaotic cults he cannot cooperate with on at least a neutral basis - he is the King of the Gods after all. He's hostile to the Seven Mothers, but not an Enemy, The Red Goddess is an Enemy as are all Chaotic cults.

Yelmalio is suspicious  … of himself?

Quote

Yelmalio is friendly towards most Fire and Sky deities, although his cult stands outside most Fire and Sky religions. However, as a result of their intertwined history, the cults of Yelmalio and Elmal are mutually suspicious of each other. Because of aid given in the Darkness, the cult likes and is liked by elves.

What propaganda will the partisans promulgate next?

16 hours ago, Shiningbrow said:

There's a difference between 'cult' and 'god' (and, that's even assuming the god is actually the same! Saying they are would be very God Learner-ish)

Certainly, Elmal is a Sun god - but the cult of Elmal is not the same cult as Yelmalio, and I reckon they'd both be willing to fight to the.. first blood?... to argue the point.

Stormbull is Hostile to Yelm and Yelmalio (Yelm reciprocates, Yelmalio is Neutral)... I haven't seen any ratings for Elmal, but being part of the Storm pantheon, I'd bet it's not that bad... I do wonder what Y & Y would think of Elmal (and vice versa).

You’re relying on a very pre-RQG retcon understanding of Elmal.

Forget the past twenty+ years of Elmal’s development and mythology.

Yelmalio is Elmal+.

Everybody says so.

Learn to love Yelmalio.

Everybody does.

Yelmalio has always been Elmal.

Everybody knows.

Yelmalio is beloved by everybody.

Hell . . . In the next edition, we learn that there has always been a Sun Dome at the Castle of Lead in Dagori Inkarth.

Yelmalio and Zorak Zoran are buddies.

There’s a whole trilogy of buddy comedies planned that details their wacky adventures.

Everytime Zorak Zoran uses his Fire rune, he quips to Yelmalio, “Jealous, little Elmal?”

They glare at each other. Then Yelmalio cracks a shimmering smile and they both laugh. Zorak Zoran slaps Yelmalio on the back, a bit too hard, and then they laugh some more.

Create a list of events that are relevant to your campaign and have the characters use that modified Family History.

I used the Coming Storm to create a Family History for our Red Cow saga starting in 1616. We also drew on Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes. We only used the events from the RQG Family History if the Coming Storm explicitly detailed how the Red Cow interacted with those events in which case we included them (often with some customizations).

A friend undertook a similar project to create a custom Family History for the Colymar campaign in S: KoH.

I image the project is far easier though if your campaign is based upon a narrowly defined community.

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Only bits and pieces. A number of the Colymar clan tattoos are depicted in the RQG Adventures Book. And then the visual elements shown in artwork including through Prince of Sartar. Clearly there must be cult tattoos as well.

Yeah. I really like the detailed Colymar clan tattoos in the RQG Adventures Book. It’s just extremely limited in usefulness. I’d love to see a more general guide to Sartarite-Orlanthi cultural tattoos. Common themes and motifs that cross clan and tribal boundaries and unify the whole culture.

6 hours ago, Bill the barbarian said:

Any of the HQ material that creates clans has clan tattoos i would think. I think I have even seen mention of what some of the rankings mean... I know that Sartar Kingdom of Heroes.does have examples of tattoos for all (?) the Colymar Clans. Now, is this available with more clan tatties or info on them somewhere in the public domain? Or can we post them here from Chaosium products? @MOB?  @Ian Cooper ? is yes, with accreditation and/or... what?

Cheers

There’s very little detail, that I can remember, in the section on tattoos in Sartar: KoH. It’s part of what prompted my question. It alludes to tattoos tied to rank and social status, but I think there’s only a simple example, so I wondered if there is a more detailed visual guide somewhere.

Has anyone done a detailed visual guide to Orlanthi tattoos? I’d be interested to see common motifs and symbols used to denote rank and status beyond just runes or clan tattoos.

10 hours ago, Marty Jopson said:

I hear what you say @EpicureanDM and @lordabdul about the laundry list of names and places. I think one of the issues I have, and suspect it would be an issue for any new-comer to the game is the tendency of Gloranthan material to be written in character. Consequently the text makes the assumption that the reader is also in character and thus has a pile of background knowledge on the setting - hence the laundry list. It's great for Glorantha-philes who can then see all the subtle nuances being brought out. It is also a good way to highlight the way there is no absolute morality in Glorantha and "alignment" is relative. But for a newb it is confusing. To be honest, I find it a bit bamboozling despite playing the game in RQ1, 2 and 3 iterations - I was never into reading up on the background at the time. I think this is a real problem for RuneQuest and its potential in the future. Was a beginners set / box / book being planned? I hope so and I hope that the powers that be( @Ellie, @Jason Durall, @Jeff ) make sure to do blind testing on complete Glorantha newbies - i.e. hand them the game and see how they cope with no other input.

Thanks all for the recommendations. I will pick up Kingdom of Heroes and the Voices pdf. I will let you know how I get on...

Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes and Voices are excellent intros. Voices is one of my earliest memories of being introduced to Glorantha and understanding the importance of a character’s religious cult.

Building on those two sources, the character creation chapter of The Coming Storm is an excellent intro to a Sartarite campaign for players. It’s for HeroQuest, but mostly system agnostic information that is easily applied to a RQ campaign. The Coming Storm can give you a richly detailed Sartarite clan to use as the foundation of a campaign, although the book is set in 1618.

King of Dragon Pass is also an excellent introduction to Orlanthi culture in Dragon Pass. If you can get your players to play a few hours of that, they’ll have a focused and richly detailed intro to the Orlanthi and the weirdness of Glorantha.

I find the Glorantha Sourcebook (and the GtG) to be a very poor introduction to Glorantha for someone that hasn’t already committed to taking the plunge.

On 7/9/2018 at 6:00 PM, jeffjerwin said:

Waterday, Illusion week, Sea Season

Fireday, Illusion week, Fire Season

Clayday, Illusion week, Earth Season

Freezeday, Illusion week, Dark season

High Holy Day: Windsday, Harmony week, Storm season

[See Cults Compendium, p.232]

The new Glorantha calendar lists

Waterday / MOVEMENT week / Sea Season

Is this an error? Waterday of Illusion week seems to better match the overall pattern.

Communities.

One of the best systems in HeroQuest Glorantha is the system for codifying and interacting with communities. I really hope a similar system is planned for RQG to help cement the importance of your Loyalty (Clan) passion.

On 5/3/2019 at 1:48 PM, Rick Meints said:

Then why make the comparison? I feel this is comparing Apples and Oranges. Comparing the core rulebook of RQG, or the Bestiary, or the GM screen pack to a campaign pack like Sartar: KoH or Pavis: GtA when they have very different purposes seems odd. I could see comparing the RGQ core book with the HQG core book, but a rule book and a campaign book have very different content goals. It would be like saying the Argan Argar Atlas fails because it doesn't have enough rules content in it, or spells in it as opposed to the rulebook. The same could be said with comparing the Guide to Glorantha with Snakepipe Hollow and saying the Guide fails because it doesn't have enough scenario material it with stats. I can see why you like the HQ scenario books a lot, and am not trying to argue over whether you prefer them, but saying the RQG core rulebook pales in comparison to them is a very different thing.

I wasn’t ever attempting to compare apples to apples. I’m comparing the HeroQuest line, which is seemingly being sidelined and de-prioritized, with the new RuneQuest: Glorantha line, which is cannibalizing the resources and materials that might have gone into new HQ products.

HeroQuest releases have always been slow, but as focus has shifted to RuneQuest it is becoming even slower. Because we’ve gotten products like RQG, the Bestiary, and the GM Screen, other HeroQuest materials have been delayed or cancelled. Further, projects planned for HeroQuest are being diverted and repurposed for RuneQuest.

This is why there is a comparison. Because we’re going to get a 1625 version of Whitewall for RuneQuest, we’ll never see the planned version of Whitewall for 1618 HeroQuest. Further, before we get richly detailed sourcebooks, we’re getting general purpose RuneQuest products. Even the general view in RQG fails to match the standards of HeroQuest. Compare the details of the cults of Ernalda and Orlanth in HeroQuest Glorantha with the same cults in RQG. It isn’t even close. These products lack and focus and depth of the HeroQuest products that we were receiving and likely mean the repurposed content for RuneQuest will lack the depth that we would have gotten for HeroQuest. Products we were ready to receive for the HeroQuest line are being delayed to make room for much more generalist products to be produced for RuneQuest.

I could go deep into the details that are included in the sources, but I’d rather move this back toward the positive affirmation of the HeroQuest product line it was intended to be initially. The material for HeroQuest has been excellent and provides all the basis I need for a game set in Glorantha, even if we’re using the RuneQuest system. There’s a streamlining of RuneQuest and a regressive retcon in favor of RQ2 that I find deeply regrettable as the excellent material developed for Hero Wars and HeroQuest was much stronger and more culturally and mythologically complex and satisfying.

32 minutes ago, g33k said:

Maybe a "Hero Cult"?  He's a known historical figure for the Orlanthi, founder of a (now defunct) Dawn-era Vingkotling tribe.

I don't think he figures as a demigod or "full" deity in any canonical resource (I could well be mistaken!), but Everyone'sGMV...

Most Red Cow approach Orlanth through the guise of their ancestor Ulanin the Rider. He grants them a different focus on their magic than the typical Orlanth Adventurous cultist.

9 hours ago, Rick Meints said:

I'm surprised that you feel the HeroQuest material has more mythological and cultural material than the CURRENT RuneQuest products. I can see why you feel Sartar: KoH has more depth than an RQ2 or RQ3 supplement, but I don't think that will hold true for anything published for RQG.

Sadly, while sales of HQ remain a fraction of RQG sales, we can't match the art budgets.

I recognize that it’s not a fair comparison as I’m looking at RQG, the Bestiary, and the GM pack and comparing them to products like Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, Pavis: GtA, The Coming Storm, and the Eleven Lights. I want a deep dive into the cultures of Glorantha and to see how their mythologies affect their cultures. RQG does a great job of weaving Glorantha into the fabric of the game and is far and away the absolutely best visual depiction of Glorantha in the history of the world, but it gives a very generalized portrayal of the cultures. I like the Family History idea, but I miss the deep dive into Clan creation and the use of the Orlanthi Clan as a character in the campaign, as examples. We created a customized Family History for our Red Cow saga using all the details in the Coming Storm to create events, but all the great detail is coming from the HQ sources.

The Sartarites, for example, fare very poorly in their treatment in the various RQG products thus far when compared with S:KoH and the Red Cow Saga. And I say that also having access to the GenCon draft of the Gods of Glorantha. Even the enhanced Colymar details in the Gamemaster Screen don’t really feel like they add a ton to the existing material on the Colymar in S:KoH (other than art and lots of mechanical system bits for characters). Again, the art is the most notable exception. Where they do differ, the RQG material seems to conflict with and contradict the HQ details for no good reason.

RQG has gone very broad in its view of Dragon Pass and lots of the the interesting details and nuance are getting erased or obliterated. The write ups in the RQ Gods book pale in comparison to the cult write ups in the various HeroQuest sources, primarily because the HQ sources take a narrow cultural focus and are trying to cover all the important gods of all the major pantheons.

I’m enjoying seeing the new RQG products and plan on continuing to buy everything as it is released, but I also plan to continue to draw upon the HQ sources to fill in the cultural details of the world because I don’t expect RQG to release comparable products for a very long time. This year, we’re expecting to see a Starter Box, a couple books of adventures, and a GM book. Nothing like Sartar: KoH or Pavis at least until 2020.

I want a deep dive source book into the Lunar Empire. Something like Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes, but for the Lunars. Or a new Troll sourcebook(s). It just doesn’t seem like we’ll see anything like that for quite a long time. In the meantime, as exhaustive and broad as the new RQG books have been, they don’t come close to touching the deep immersion that was offered by the HeroQuest line for the last decade+.

I really, really hope we continue to see HeroQuest sourcebooks set in Glorantha.

I was excited about the return of RuneQuest, as it was the game system that introduced me to Glorantha, but the more I interface with the new RuneQuest the more I yearn for the rich mythological and cultural detail of HeroQuest.

I debated between HeroQuest and RuneQuest for my new campaign and we ultimately decided on RuneQuest, but I can’t tell you how often I wish I had pushed harder for HeroQuest. Even so, we’re playing 11 Lights and almost all my prep and research time is spent with HeroQuest materials. Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes is better than anything ever published for any edition of RuneQuest, imo.

The only place where the new RuneQuest material surpasses the HeroQuest sources is in the art and production budget. I would love to see the HeroQuest books with the art budgets of the new RuneQuest line. Still, I prefer the setting as described in HeroQuest and we can apply the updated visuals to the world from the RuneQuest materials.

Thanks again for all the lovely work put into HeroQuest Glorantha. I look forward to any additional books you’re able to produce, even if we have to wait a long time in between.

15 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

There's different levels of "severing" from society - I was just dealing with this with a new PC in my own campaign.  

It can range from the extreme where the person severs all former ties to kith, kin, and clan to "I sever myself from my former life and take up the Sword Death, and pledge my service to my chief or king", but effectively still in clan/tribe. They may (or may not) have given up Love(family). Loyalty might well be to the Chieftain/King rather than explicitly the clan/tribe, or might be dedicated/loyal to the clan/tribe.  I do think there's enough room for Humakti to work.  Gagarth, on the other hand,... 

One of the players in my Eleven Lights campaign is a Humakti. We made her a Red Cow redsmith that had looked up to Jordarn the Clash as a mentor. When he was killed by Rostakus Twice-Outlawed, and Broddi accepted compensation, she swore herself over to Humakt and swore that she would avenge Jordarn and achieve justice. She quickly got the chance to face Rostakus in a duel, but was defeated when he critically struck her sword arm (nearly destroying her sword in the process). Now she has to figure out how she will honor the vows she has made to avenge Jordarn.

We play her functioning under the ritual of sheathing under most circumstances so she can continue to function alongside her clan members.

It bugs me that armor doesn’t have any effect on Movement. Maybe I’m mistaken, but it seems like some types of troops historically went less armored to improve their speed and mobility. peltasts for example are famed for being lightly armored and highly mobile. That mobility helps them outmaneuver heavier troop types like hoplites.

From what I can see in RQG, there isn’t any really penalty to wearing armor and carrying a bunch until you entirely exceed your ENC limits.

On 4/15/2019 at 1:41 AM, David Scott said:

Like this one from Sartar Kingdom of Heroes

https://www.glorantha.com/docs/sartar-clan-generator/

 

This is another awesome system for HeroQuest. The Family History in RQG is very cool, but it misses out on the whole create the clan because your clan itself is an important character in the story.

On 4/14/2019 at 4:59 AM, soltakss said:

With both the clan rules from Dorastor Land of Doom, those in Red Cow and the rules for Sacred Time in the RQG Rulebook, there are a lot of rules for Clans.

What would be useful would be something to tie them all together, whether something official or a fan-page somewhere.

I’m missing the rules for Clan Support and Resource Crises from HeroQuest. Is there an equivalent in RQG? I’m running the 11 Lights in RQG, but I haven’t found a satisfying way to depict the fluctuations to the clans resources in RQG. HQ has a great system for that.

On 4/13/2019 at 6:32 PM, klecser said:

What about the Sartar Companion?

For the last week I've been thinking about getting the Glorantha Sourcebook, but I'm now wondering if the two Sartar books are more relevant for "day-to-day" game execution.

Sartar Companion has some great material, but there’s a lot I also skip over. I consider Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes far more essential and valuable to a campaign based in Dragon Pass. Definitely more valuable background information than the Glorantha Sourcebook.

The art in the Glorantha Sourcebook is beautiful though and far more illustrative of the current aesthetic for the world of Glorantha.

I would love to see Game Aids, although they were not my first choice. Minis and spell decks and other physical accessories would be lovely.