frogspawner

I'd already found it, mate. But after Mr Middleton's opening salvo above, I knew the matter was in good hands - so now I can rest easy...

I agree (assuming your opinion of MRQ's Physical Runes is that they are a bad idea). Fancy that! :shocked: At risk of appearing unqualifiedly critical or just generally snobby - that 'trailer' is 100% daft! (A laugh, though...) I did say I'd only read the MRQ SRD, so I trust Mr Tindalos is able to properly judge the value of my criticisms. I didn't say everything Mongoose publish is bad - just their rules - and that I won't be buying the other stuff. I have no interest in the 2nd-age setting. And, although I'm sure you can manage it with a lot of hard work (and maybe you have, I'll never know), but it must be difficult to produce good setting material for a poor rules system - especially since some of the poor design affects the wider world (particularly their runes-as-physical-objects mistake). I didn't want to bore Hound with point-by-point evidence qualifying why true RQ/BRP is better than the Mongoose rules. So MRQ being 90% worse is just an estimate. Since you want facts, I'll go through the MRQ SRD and get an accurate figure sometime - but not today, and probably not this week. (I'm busy, setting up a game under rules which use the best bits from BRP, RQ2/3, RoleMaster, C&S, Dragon Warriors, AD&D1&2, D&D3.x - I'm no rules snob - but nothing from MRQ). Hound of Tindalos just wanted opinions of where it's best to start, so I told him... ...RQ2.

Which is very good - and looks better to me than the only other one I've seen. Perhaps it could be a bit darker?

Now that is a particularly twisted market - we don't want to go that way! (And let us salute the Mac-users among us... ) Not me - ain't been there for ages. Yes, very interesting...

Assertion, not evidence. I'd say that 90% of MRQ was worse than the pre-existing RQ versions. The only good things in MRQ were the ideas of: (1) a mechanism to reward roleplay; (2) dropping strike-ranks; and (3) not having to track both Total HPs and HP-per-location. But the actual implementations of even those ideas were bad. I didn't miss your point. Having lost that one, you are just trying to make another. But I cannot agree with the view that we should buy bad product from Mongoose (or anyone) in the hope they will then make enough money to publish better stuff later! It works like this: first someone publishes a good product - then customers buy it. I have seen the MRQ SRD, and so I will not be buying Mongoose's stuff - it is sub-standard. But I have bought BRP - and soon I will have bought it three times! Hound of Tindalos: Please do not think we in the BRP/RQ community are all argumentative so-and-so's! But I just can't let this guy's untruths go unchallenged. (When he first came to this forum - from the MRQ one - he described this place as "too civilized", btw !)

'Insignificant' to convert. If you want to - we don't all want to power-game like that... You seemed to be equating old with bad and new with good - which is clearly wrong. When there's an in-print version that's better than the oop versions (or even just as good as...) And with reason - MRQ isn't as good as true RQ/BRP. The only advantage MRQ had over true RQ was that the Mongoose version was in print. Thankfully, with the arrival of BRP, that's gone! But, great though the new BRP book is, it doesn't have everything you'd need to start a fantasy campaign (treasure, religions), has plenty that's irrelevant (modern, supers, futuristic), and has a lot of options (which are initially confusing for a beginner). Hound of Tindalos: Buy RQ2 - you won't regret it! It's not hard to find on e-bay, and should only cost you about 10 quid (20 dollars?). Then if you have any cash left over, buy BRP - and update any rules you think need it.

Insignificant differences. Plus RQ2/3 do have an ENC system, btw. (And although Fatigue didn't come until RQ3, nobody used/uses it anyway!) RQ2 is best. Plus it's Apple Lane supplement if you can get it - doesn't everyone start in the Rainbow Mounds?

Hey! I cut my teeth on Tunnels & Trolls - I might still be playing it now, if I hadn't run out of six-sided dice... (Mind you, if it hadn't been for T&T, I might've made the investment in Original D&D stuff - and now be reaping a tidy little profit! So Boo! to you, KStA! :mad:)

I'm not so sure - people often mention something that's "St.Andre's Fault".

YES! That's just the one I was hoping for (though trying not to lead the witness). Thanks yet again, Mr.D!

Oops! Just realized I didn't answer the first question... Yes, seconded! RQ2 is absolutely the right book to start with. Preferably, get the boxed version, which also includes Apple Lane (classic beginner scenarios) and Fangs (stock monsters & characters).) It scores over RQ3 by having nice extras (atmosphere, treasure tables, religious write-ups, chaotic features, etc) all in there.

Yes, I'd prefer it to be that way, too, but I'm still not clear about it, even after Mr D's help. Let's use a simple example so I might be able to understand: A dagger (d4, Impaling) does a critical hit which is also a success for Martial Arts(dagger) (and let's assume the attacker has no damage bonus, and the target is armoured). Is the damage... A: 4 (max rollable for crit only) B: 4 + d4 (max rollable for crit plus rolled MA bonus) C: 4 + 4 (max rollable for crit plus max MA bonus) ...?

About 500 years. Seriously, 3rd age is the original RQ setting - on the world of Glorantha, about the year 1600, usually in and around the famous Dragon Pass and/or the Prax desert and the city of Pavis, typically featuring heroic rebels struggling against the mighty Lunar Empire. This is the setting that made RQ great. 2nd age, set in the doomed past of Glorantha about the year 1100 before everyone was eaten by dragons and other disasters, is a new invention, usually involving struggles against the misguided God Learners, who sought to reduce nature and myth to simple game-like principles they selfishly manipulate. This is the setting that Mongoose publishing hope will make them money. I'm not keen. MRQ is called RuneQuest but isn't as good, having been spoiled by poor design, IMHO - and is more like D&D in style. BRP is much better - more like true RuneQuest (although Chaosium have lost the RQ name, due to legal shenanagins).

Yep (but the special damage v unarmoured is at GM discretion). Yes, I would argue that! But it seems MA doesn't benefit criticals... But, if you score a critical success, you don't "roll" your damage (normally)! OK, though, I hear what you're saying - it's like I suspected at the start: Martial Arts give no benefit to critical hits. Which seems odd Well I like this new version better - i.e. the under-statted have to roll at half skill. (But this is a debate for the Difficulty Modifiers thread... )

I think the poll is poorly worded. Even those of us who usually don't use Hit Locs, but only for Major Wounds and such, are having to vote FOR. No need for debate - there is a spot rule for aiming: make a difficult (half-chance) attack roll, and hit the location you choose.

Thanks for the (speedy) clarifications! But... "or"? Sorry, I'm still not quite clear on this. Shouldn't that be "extra damage and armour is ignored"? Brill! Whether or not the errant note turns up, that's exactly what it should be! Thanks again.

Yes, perhaps so. It says "damage is rolled normally", but you wouldn't roll damage for a regular critical anyway. (No offence, but I was hoping for a more authoritative answer, though... ...Mr. D?) Ah, but that's only against unarmoured opponents (and even then the option to do a special effect instead is at GM discretion). I'm not yet totally convinced that Martial Arts add to Criticals at all. But I'm glad you agree the wording is somewhat less than unequivocal. For the benefit of those yet to receive their copy, here're the relevant words about Martial Arts... "SUCCESS: If the rolled result is less than the skill rating in both Martial Arts and the appropriate combat skill, roll for base damage twice and total the result. Your character’s damage bonus is never doubled. SPECIAL: As above. If the combat roll is a special success, the additional base damage roll is added to the effects of the special hit, if any. CRITICAL: As above. If the combat roll is a critical success, any armor possessed by the target is ignored, and damage is rolled normally." (Re.: Apparent Total Inability to use weapons with less than the required STR/DEX) Thanks. But... yuk!

Similarly, I can't seem to find any reference to penalties for not having the required STR/DEX for a particular weapon. So is a character with less than the stated stats simply unable to wield that type of weapon?

Am I right in my reading of the BRP rules for these? Successful Martial Arts adds an extra damage roll to normal hits and specials, but gives no benefit at all to criticals? E.g. Daggers (d4,Impaling) would (when the attack roll is also an MA success of any degree) do 2d4 on a normal hit, 3d4 on a special hit but just 4hp (through) on a critical (which would happen anyway, without MA(dagger) skill)?

... and that's good enough for me.

OK, compared with CoC, I guess it's a Yes.

Sorry, but your poll is poo. I like Hit Locations - but I'm not using them because they entail time-consuming extra admin. Except, I am using them on my variant Major Wounds table, of course. I also am not a Gorp. How should I vote?

There is a Spot Rule for Mass Combat in BRP, but it just suggests a couple of very abstracted ways to handle it. Dragon Pass is a great idea for wide-ranging large scale engagements lasting days or weeks; for individual battles I'd use a variant of the "Hordes of the things" tabletop rules (itself a variant of DBA); for anything less - well, so long as you roll fast and the troops are pretty homogenous, use BRP...

Sadly, that's almost the exact opposite way around from an example given in the BRP book! Yes, it's a tricky call. Fair enough. But personally I find the opposite - multipliers are easy (factors of 2 I can manage!), but +/- modifiers muck up the critical/special/fumble values.

Character should matter. Memorable personalities are what it's all about - the system should stay in the background. You can't control their characters' behaviour (though it could be strongly suggested with clear-cut Glorantha-like cult roles). So one or two utterly bad bad guys should feature. I suggest Broo - played really over-the-top and gross, defiling anything they can get hold of. These players will probably want to kill things and take their gold. Something that vile clearly must be killed - so that should make them happy. But then they'll find they can't take the gold without becoming diseased - what a dilemma!