Shiningbrow

I suppose I'm just surprised, is all. I thought the West would have had a number of people wanting to do it (or have it out there).

No angst intended.

@David Scott I was actually just trying to stick with RQ, and stay away from real world versions.

Your ideas on the RQ version are interesting, though, and the "can't have the Spirit Rune" sounds odd!

Are you also suggesting that God Learners couldn't awaken a Fetch? Or just saying that meeting the Horned Man wasn't sufficient?

3 hours ago, SDLeary said:

OK... so the way this is coming out sounds more like what might be called an allied sprit, but that's not really what I'm after. I'm trying to figure out a Gloranthan  equivalent to being "Touched" or "Born with the Sight". The thought of a child being born with an already awakened fetch seems that it could fit the bill. Perhaps on occasion, rather than three elemental runes, a child is born with two elemental runes and Sprirt.

SDLeary   

 

 

Or just have the Second Sight ability, with or without an awakened Fetch.

15 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

There's a book on the west in the works too. There's going to be ones for the West, East, an South.

I figured there would be, but wondering why it's after the east, and not on the list.

On 1/8/2020 at 3:25 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

For example, I know that we can find Orlanth in many countries, in many forms (I am not talking about subcult)

Heortling, Aeolianism, EWF, Carmanian, Safelstran, Henotheist, storm tribes in Pent ... maybe Arkatism ? (I don't realy understand what is Arkatism in third age or before)

 I have wondered why you couldnt be a membership of some/many/all of them.

Instead of Orlanth, what about Monrogh's changing of Elmal worship for Yelmalio... 

Obviously, PCs should be extremely biased, but players usually prefer munchkin, and would want the best of all possibles.

I'm curious - why is the East getting a book written up in.the short term, when it appears that many would like to see the West covered in more detail, especially given the significance of sorcery?

(Yes, I understand that the GM book, and/or perhaps CaGoG may cover some, but...).

14 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Maybe, haven't played enough tough combats to know.  But remember Rune Magic means most fighters have access to Shield and everybody has emergency Healing 6, both of which prolong combat.

For starting characters (and players), the question then becomes - when do you use them? Heal Wound should be obvious - but when do you want to put up the Shield - knowing you won't get it back any time soon??? (Sort of like D&D, but different enough to)

9 hours ago, Joerg said:

Divine magic is pretty useless for commanding summoned entities other than cult spirits or cult entities. There isn't any deity that grants spells to control the minions of its enemies. If you want to deal with potentially hostile spirits, you either need a shaman or some other magician able to discorporate and attack the summoned entity in spirit combat, beat it down to zero MP and then bind it into a (prepared) Binding Enchantment for an entity of that kind, or a sorcerer who has a spell to enslave that more or less specific kind summoned entity. The shaman's ability to jump into spirit combat more or less at will is at a big advantage as there is no need to prepare for a specific enemy.

Healing spirit.

Have a couple ready in advance, sic (🤣) them on the Disease spirit until it's MPs are low, then command them back into the enchantment.

Granted, 2 spells... But Healing spirits are much nicer to summon.

48 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Agree. If you somehow manage this without the formal training, you’re still a shaman.

Might as well try to say ”I’m not a sorcerer, I just so happen to know sorcery.”

In old RQ, that would be valid! Apprentice Bonding Ritual was required to be an apprentice, and you needed a Familiar to be considered a real sorcerer. However, you could still learn basic sorcery without that.

I'm under the impression that Argrath is trying to combine magical styles, including having people have something similar to awakening a Fetch, without the formalities of true cult-ural shamanism - hence this thread.

7 minutes ago, Crel said:

As to game balance, at the very least I suggest that any adventurer who learns the spirit magic spell Summon Disease Spirit will quickly be run out of town.

Anyone stupid enough to let everyone know they have and use that spell indiscriminately deserves to be run out of town! 

Although, having the immunity option is a smart move. A good Fast Talk should do the trick.

9 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Why should it be possible to awaken a Fetch without going through the education process? A Shaman is someone who has a Fetch, a second self in the spirit world, which gives them greater power within it. The abilities are a package deal with the Fetch. If you don't have a Fetch, you aren't a shaman, plain and simple. What a cult means when it says you cannot be a shaman and an initiate at the same time is that you cannot have a Fetch and remain an initiate of that cult. Worshipping your ancestors does not preclude you from being in a cult that forbids shamans, so long as you are not one yourself, and many cults, such as Kolat and Daka Fal, accept shamans into the priestly hierarchy.

In theory, your fetch could be awakened by Heroquesting.

The Abilities that come with it are (apparently) given by some entity (does the Bad Man actually give abilities ???), but can also be granted by other gods and as HQ rewards.

It's not the training per se that gives you the fetch, it's how Spirit Dance is used in a very specific way (time and place). Probably with some input by the Horned Man (or similar). Again, I don't see a logical reason why a Fetch can be awakened through other means.

I fully get the "a shaman has a Fetch", but sufficient and necessary aren't the same thing, nor does it mean that it's the only requirement.

Not the simple question you think it is.

Many cults don't allow their initiates to be or become shamans (nor sorcerers, not to even know sorcery).

However, it should be possible to awaken a Fetch without being formally taught by a Shaman, or being part of a spirit cult. 

Similarly, being an initiate of a spirit cult clearly doesn't exempt one from joining other deity cults, nor even having trained as an assistant shaman.

Orlanthi still sometimes have ancestor worship, and Kolati are shamans - so odd that there appears to be this ban for them.

Anyway - what's the line??? 

The fetch? The title? The responsibility? The Abilities? Or...???

16 hours ago, Manu said:

I'd like to know why PC get a free POW increase (1d3) every time they defeat a disease spirit? Why these and not the other type of spirit?

It's for all that munchkinny goodness! 

The Hero Wars aren't going to just wait for the PCs to get all strong and POWerful the slow way!

12 hours ago, g33k said:

<shrug>

GM:  "You can't find any more Disease Spirits nearby...  You'll need to go searching for some; but first, you have some diseases to treat, from the POW rolls..."

 

I haven't experienced this to a problematic degree.

OTOH, it's true I haven't seen any really munchkin-style players hitting the Shaman rules.  I don't expect to have a problem.  I guess it remains to ve seen, at my table.

That's because I haven't played at your table

Irrelevant. If someone gets the diseases, just Summon a Healing spirit to fox it, then Restore Health if needed.

On 1/1/2020 at 7:27 AM, JustAnotherVingan said:

Something I'd been wondering this evening. How good are those in a Sword or Axe Trance at accepting surrenders? Granted it isn't Berserk but the Humakti or Gorite is totally focused on their weapon and combat. If an opponent drops their weapon and falls to the ground wailing I yield, I yield I think the Humakti would decide they are no longer a threat and ignore them but what if they back off in a defensive stance and say I yield?

I think this would be a good way to bring Humaktis back to earth (slight pun intended).

The first time they Trance against a non-chaotic enemy, and a yield is called, they have to firstly roll Listen checks (modified down for a - in battle, b - in Trance), then Opposed Passions (again modified, because the Hate Lunars is,already in battle,, and has possibly wounded/killed someone). Also, Humakt is *the* death bringer, not the mercy-giver. (Obviously, roll against Honour).

The upshot is - if Humakti go on Tranced killing sprees, then the long term consequences can be terrible. "There was a terrible misunderstanding, and YOU killed the emissary and all their guards while in Trance, *after* they yielded". 

Exile? Execution? Reprisals? Give up all your gear as weregild? Dishonor to the clan/tribe/family (which may be irrelevant, depending on how much you play the separation aspect).

Other than the seriously increased chance of dying early, there's a really good reason not many join Humakt, or for their lack of popularity in civilised society.

The good old days also had separate skills for Att & Parry... 

18 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

I think this is important to keep track of in play.

Give each player some sort of token. When they use it, give to GM.

If the adventurer has already rolled to be inspired by a Rune or Passion during the situation at hand, they cannot try to be inspired again, even by a different Rune or Passion. The bonus from inspiration cannot be combined with an augment from another skill (see page 144). Finally, once a Rune is successfully used for inspiration, it cannot be used again that session.

Personally, I wouldn't stress too much about it.

This.

Is.

VARGAST!!!!!!

And so is he. And him. And that guy over there. And this girl walking up the road... 

8 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

since there is now a "between adventure" experience,

I would change "At the end of each season, an adventurer can select up to four occupational skills and cult skills and cultural skill* (but not weapon) to get an experience check. These experience checks are resolved at the same time as regular experience checks

*cultural skill = where you are. For example, an esrolian merchant in prax use prax cultural skill"

then erase the specific ride rules. It was very very usefull before the between adventure xp

 

I don't recall RAW, but a Praxian in Notchet should also have their occupational skills limited as well. 

Some skills are just not going to be used. And we could argue how much could be learned from just watching (if you're even allowed to watch! I'm thinking craft skills here).

8 hours ago, lordabdul said:

Sorry for being picky but I'd say it simulates the real world more than other systems, not necessarily "better"

😮😮😮😮

😜

10 hours ago, g33k said:

I think shaman's relationship with POW is particular, and there IS a "good reason" why other stats aren't so easily improved.

YGMV, of course.

I consider there to be "no good reason not" because of the powers of the entity being appealed to. Sure, some can't (and given that, I'd also limit the availability of other abilities - as is already in RAW, because some abilities are "rare").

I'd suggest that INT and CHA would be two of the more obvious (expanding your mind and seeing things from a different perspective).

As for the physical stats, if you can self-ressurect, why couldn't the body be changed in other ways?

Or shamans. They could ask for such abilities. POW is already given as a standard +1 to species maximum. No good reason why other stats couldn't also be improved. And I'd suggest that's the quickest and easiest from the start (ie, quicker and easier than getting to Rune Lord and saving up a bunch of Rune Points).

Yes, I know the Soul Expansion is only for increased maximum - not increased attribute. But, again, no good reason why the attributes themselves couldn't be affected. 

I would have thought SR penalty equal to DEX SR (minimum of 1)... Gotta be quick enough to get in that extra "free" attack.

10 hours ago, Darius West said:

If they don't want realism, they can get their narrative/systemless jollies playing HQ, and probably already do so.  RQ has always been a flagship for realism in RPGs.  Don't believe me?  Remove the magic system and look at what happens in combat.  For me, a good portion of MGF is a game system that behaves like the real world in most respects, but with some magic to spice it up.  I am not alone in wanting this.

There's clearly levels of realism. RQ *simulates* the real world slightly (in rules) - certainly better than some other systems. But it clearly doesn't go all the way. Obviously more than HQ.

I mentioned above Härnmaster... Different damage types, a MUCH more complete hit locations table, much more complex overall. It'd be easy to do a Glorantha Härnmaster - but I don't think it would sell very well, and most RQ players wouldn't stick with it.

People who play BRP want *some* realism, but definitely not the whole hog.

And that's all I'm saying....