Shiningbrow

Seriously though... Humans have gotten together and killed gods before... Including fairly recently (God of Silver Feet... I've only read about the killing, haven't found why they did it... Anyone?)

So, is killing Delecti somewhat harder than killing a god?

12 hours ago, soltakss said:

Isn't Slay Delecti in the main Rulebook? It must be in one of the supplements, then.

No... It's implied that the players can create the spell using the rules though... I think in the supplement there will be "Slay Cragspider", and you just play with that until you get Delecti.

12 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I think it's entirely legitimate to say that one simple spell in the rulebook is not enough to take down Delecti.

True. But it shouldn't be made completely useless either.

But, I'm more referring to a GM fiat, rather than an actual in place logical reason. Since this would be a fairly common spell, he's aware of it, and has taken measures against it. Fine... What?

The "anything you try will fail" is what I was getting at with that line.

I had a thought this morning... sorcery has the Identify Otherworld Entity, which allows one to ask a specific question about an spirit ("discorporate or embodied") within range - which can include True Name. This could be a good way to start working one's way through the Dryads attached to the Blackthorn tree (as well as the ghosts attached to them). I note that there's no need for rolls other than the casting. "Specific" spirit ought to include known, and not just "currently looking at"...

It could also be argued that the spirits that animate the undead also fall into this category - and maybe even Delecti himself (although, I'd figure the GM may need some convincing for these). Even if a GM disallows this particular spell to give up the True Name of the various undead in the Marsh, logically there shouldn't be a reason to deny the PC the chance to make their own spell during the course of play that does the same thing (ie, INT x4, RAW... unless, of course, it's considered "very powerful or unique").

The final nail in the coffin for this approach is of course - GM says "Delecti already has counters to that... hahaha!" (which is basically GM fiat for saying "you'll never be able to take him out, because... ! So there!!")

18 minutes ago, Bill the barbarian said:

I would think that Elmal being subordinate to Orlanth (he's Orlanth's servant, horseman) would, if not negate association, make if much more difficult.

Going by old source material, Mastakos was Orlanth's Charioteer - so "subordinate" to Orlanth as well... but is still Associated.

7 minutes ago, soltakss said:

Orlanth is friendly to Elmal

Only Friendly? I thought they'd be Associate...

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

The old conflict between Elmal partisans and Yelmalio partisans reappears!

Can Yelmalians get their RPs back by worshipping in Elmal temples? And vice versa? Can they sacrifice for new spells at their temples?

(ETA  I don't really have a dog in this fight.... so, it's a genuine question.)

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Simple way of looking at this - the Elmal (sub)cult is associated with Orlanth, the Yelmalio cult is neutral. The gods fought in the Gods War, but also cooperated together in the Gods War. Orlanth has few non-Chaotic cults he cannot cooperate with on at least a neutral basis - he is the King of the Gods after all. He's hostile to the Seven Mothers, but not an Enemy, The Red Goddess is an Enemy as are all Chaotic cults.

My post above posited the love - hate on a 10point scale (or using half-bands)... ie, a H-E (or, in the old Cults of Terror, that'd be 0.5.. 0 being Enemy, , 1 being Hostile). I understand that, over time and situations, these can change (slightly). And, RQG tends to "err on the side of caution"... ie, Hostile, rather than Enemy (at least because it's easier to go one way than the other).

I would like to know why Seven Mothers only gets Hostile (from Orlanth) when they condone (encourage??) the use of Chaos - even if not specifically Chaotic themselves. It seems to be a bit of a fine line (as Stormbull sees through). **

**I note that this has changed from the old days... Cults of Terror has Stormbull being Hostile towards Seven Mothers... in RGQ they're seen as Enemy. Seven Mothers, OTOH, has gone from seeing Stormbull as Neutral, to Enemy! The question then is... what's changed since 1981?

8 hours ago, Joerg said:

I would rather stress that there is a difference between the cult as an expression of all the worshipers of a deity and the local cult community (with a wyter and all) which may be quite different, and which may harbor friendship or hostility for other things than just your primary cult.

Very true. But going into that level of politics would change the compatibility table every year or so. And, you'd end up with Orlanth hostile to Orlanth...  

20 hours ago, Joerg said:

Getting the Black Eater to waste the crunchier bits of a snack could be a harder heroquest than to counteract D'Wargon the Womb Biter...

🤣

🤣

🤣

4 hours ago, metcalph said:

Remember Yelmalio has many forms, one of which is Elmal.

 

There's a difference between 'cult' and 'god' (and, that's even assuming the god is actually the same! Saying they are would be very God Learner-ish)

Certainly, Elmal is a Sun god - but the cult of Elmal is not the same cult as Yelmalio, and I reckon they'd both be willing to fight to the.. first blood?... to argue the point.

Stormbull is Hostile to Yelm and Yelmalio (Yelm reciprocates, Yelmalio is Neutral)... I haven't seen any ratings for Elmal, but being part of the Storm pantheon, I'd bet it's not that bad... I do wonder what Y & Y would think of Elmal (and vice versa).

I know there is a LOT more information coming on this. I don't know if that will include helping with character creation... It should, but I don't know.

If we're lucky, before the end of the year.

7 hours ago, soltakss said:

Don't forget that Hostile isn't Enemy.

Hostile Cults are rivals, they might dislike each other and might even fight each other, but two members of Hostile cults might band together to fight a member of a common Enemy cult.

I see Hostile as Dislike and Enemy as Hate.

Except... Orlanth is neutral to Yelm and Yelmalio... They should clearly "dislike" each other (there's NO way a person should be able to be in both cults - Orlanth and Yelmalio). Seven Mothers gets Hostility from Orlanth (given the Chaos connection, I find that a bit odd...rather than Enemy).

I would have put the Yelm/Orlanth relationship about halfway between N & H... Probably leaning towards H. Constant mistrust, suspicion, old rivalries easy to be remembered. There can be peace, but can easily be pushed to conflict.

Seven Mothers/Orlanth should be H-E, given the connection to Chaos. I can't think of a situation in which they'd ever work together for a mutual cause (without a lot of self-interest involved).  But, I'll accept the Hostile...

Stormbull, however, does have hostility towards Yelm & Yelmalio ... (granted, he's more prone that way 😛 )

So, one way to possibly remove the curse - HQ to the event, after smashing his body, rip off the arms or chew off the claws - then swallow. See what happens afterwards! (No need for an "arming"... more like a "dis-arming" )

Haven't people from Argan Argar gone to their wonderful wife and asked her for a few Bless Pregnancy spells, or Reproduce? Sure, won't cure the entire curse, but should certainly be enough for each individual pregnancy/mating.

On 6/12/2019 at 2:40 AM, M Helsdon said:

Latest. Appears in the book as a half page illustration.

Tomorrow will be spent checking and updating the document, and on Thursday will probably convert it from A4 to 'Letter' which will probably mess up the layout... Will have to see if that offers any room for more sketches.

 

Hi Helsdon.

I only just took a look through this thread, given it says 22 pages 😛

I love your artwork, and it amazes me... !!! I wish I could draw that well!

I've been having this thought as I've been reading through the Guide Vol 1, and looking a the pics in there... most people are apparently right-handed, but they keep having characters drawn with swords on their right side - as yours above... this doesn't make sense to me - especially this guy, as he's clearly right-handed... drawing the sword is going to be really difficult - unless drawn backwards. Either that, or he'll have to change it around after an upward draw (or, a really long, awkward straight draw upwards_). Drawing across the body from L to R is much easier (although, obviously, it would hide the sword on this picture).

6 hours ago, Kloster said:

In fact, the influences that I believe are giving a 'less' RuneQuest impressions are from Stormbringer and are (for me) the  Single skill for attack and parry (bad idea) and the Multiple Parry (bad idea).

I'm not ganging up on you with the rest, but I do want to say... I see both sides of it!

The more anal rules nazi in me wants RH/LH Att & Par like in in days gone by. But, I also like the simplification of just the 1 skill to cover both (with half percentage for using off-hand).  But then, I'm also not un-convinced about MRQ about "Combat Styles"... AS a person usually practices a couple of weapons/shield together, and not individually (and, obliviously, sometimes you do!)

Multiple parries actually make a lot of sense! They do reflect real life.... (unlike single attacks, and the concept of a 'melee round').

I think, ultimately, MGF wins out, and thus a single skill roll is closer to maximum than having to up-skill separate Att & Par... and the ability to multi-parry.

41 minutes ago, Jeff said:

How is fighting with a shield much more difficult?

They're a lot bulkier, and harder to utilise. Coming from single one-handed weapon to adding a huge weight on your other (usually balancing) arm is quite encumbering. But, if you're trained with it, then it's something you get used to anyway...

1 hour ago, EricW said:

Not an opponent a PC is likely to defeat.

Depends on the GM really...

It just sounds like a high powered game to me. Although, I'm one of those that thinks that what NPCs can do, so too can the PCs.

(granted, as you said, Delecti has had centuries to build up...)

4 hours ago, David Scott said:

It stops rune magic affecting a person or object protected by the spell. The only Humakti magic it will affect is Sever Spirit and turn Undead. Needs Intensity vs POW to overcome.

RAW, true. However, I also envisage any highly magical being well-versed in sorcery (especially GL) has learned numerous other spells as well... Those not written up as yet.

On 6/20/2019 at 5:09 AM, EricW said:

Delecti has withstood centuries of attacks by Humakt heroes and others.

Therein lies the problem... when you only come at him and his with only 1 type of magic at a time, he'll easily defeat you. Especially with sorcery the way it is now with its associations with Runes. A simple Neutralize (Death) Rune would stop most Humakti magic in one go! There's probably something similar to this for dragons - Neutralize Dragon Magic.

He's using God Learner magics, meaning multiple options at any one time.

Heroes need to be multi-faceted... none of this hammer/nail thing.

I just came across this the other day as I slowly go through GtG1... (and, yes, I know it's only 1 word out of a whole lot of material, but still...).

Upland Marsh: This entire area was solid earth, until ensorcelled by Delecti the Necromancer, a sorcerer who reached magus level about 800 years ago. He did it to save himself and his followers from the Great Golden Horde and the Dragonkill. It succeeded, and he “lives” there still, an immortal and powerful vampire. Within the treacherous bogs, streams, and sandbars are many undead strongholds. Delecti’s Ruins, vast acres of fallen buildings, are inhabited by his bizarre undead constructs. In the waters swims an undead killer whale." (p190, my emphasis)

I just figured the names were translated into English, from whichever language they came from, and thus the various books used English declensions where relevant. When translated into French, German, etc, I expected similar changes to the grammar - suffixes etc.

The other option would have been to create a large number of languages, and use whatever grammar is used for proper nouns of the various groups... Which (for some in this world) would be silly! 

Speaking of which - has anyone tried to create any Gloranthan languages? 

15 hours ago, General Panic said:

The Iliad was devised to entertain, not to act as a source of genealogy. And it's way too long to hear it all in one sitting. But the audience for this entertainment was interested in names and genealogies of course.

Thanks! I didn't think it was as @Joerg was suggesting, but IANAH(istorian), and my recent expedition into the book was through literature, not history.

18 hours ago, Joerg said:

Yes, but that was the purpose of the Iliad - to cram as many names and characters into one poem as possible to cover everybody's important ancestors, unmistakeably (just consider the two Aiases, and plenty other barely distinguishable names if you don't give the lineage etc.). The Iliad is a catalogue of the respected ancestries for important people, the proof of divine blood enabling a lineage to rule. That's how you get dynasties calling themselves the Heraklids or even the Tantalids (despite the evil in that lineage).

Do you have any evidence to support this? (Genealogy guide, not entertainment)

5 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

I never read the Illiadand that short blurb is very informational. It makes it less likely that I will ever read it (so many good books to read) but still gives a context around the whole thing.

While I'm complaining about the name-dropping, I did also enjoy it! 

So, don't be too put off by what's been said above.

1 minute ago, Joerg said:

He has been humiliated by others often enough to build up a lot of grudges. But I think this is actually a case of siding with the mortals, and being condemned by almost every deity for this.

I guess it is mutual. Grandfather Mortal is blamed for being the first person to accept Death.

Compare the Brithini reaction to the Expulsion Walk and sacrifice of Malkion.

Actually, you managed to pick out a conflict that hasn't been that prominent in Gloranthan myths - that of humans (and their rare allies) raging against the gods, acquiring their powers for themselves and their own ends. Stealing fire from the sun or from the gods as a collective. Elevating the hoi polloi to manipulate the exclusive domain of the great ones.

You're referencing things I haven't come across in my readings yet....

Very interesting if that's how the world works - I've never seen it like this before! Please expand!

"Blaming" Grandfather Mortal for "accepting" Death... 🤨

4 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Consider sport fans who boast of the achievements of the professional players in the team rather than of their own. What's the difference?

I have a certain amount of Asperger's Syndrome - so asking me that question won't result in an answer you'd probably appreciate 😛 I get the need to do that occasionally, but (IIRC) it filled up half of the Iliad! I also get that we're a completely different culture in that respect - but if they did that in a movie or TV series now, it would get panned and cancelled within a week!

8 minutes ago, Joerg said:

(Like Eddard keeping re-appearing in Game of Thrones.)

His  backstory and reappearances were essential to the main plot. In Iliad, they're mere window-dressing.

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Because everybody has beaten him, kicked him, punished him...

Obviously personal responsibility is completely irrelevant here, but I would have thought that perhaps he'd take it all in stride, rather than so personally. Surely there's some concept of deserving what he gets?

Besides which, he's managed to get his own back enough times.... (not sure who gets the last laugh though...)

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

Beacuse Daka Fal was once Grandfather Mortal, the first man to die.  Daka Fal hates the Gods because they took his birthright. 

Extremely narrow minded.... Hating Death (and Humakt) makes sense. And Chaos. Distrusting the others is just silly....

(but... I know - I didn't write the story, and that's just the way it is! So, I'm not arguing about it... just stating a perception)