Kloster

11 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Which of these is more scary: Darth Vader force-choking someone, and Darth Vader shooting someone? You really don't see a difference between those two? I mean I get the logical "they're both dead, so no difference" side of it, but I imagine Spock saying that to Bones, who then has a fit about Vulcans and their lack of emotion. There's a definite emotional side to someone choking to death gasping for air.

Of course, as a human, I fully agree with you.

26 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

I personally wouldn't allow targeting a specific person, but that's a fine ruling if necessary.

RQG p400: If cast on a person, the person suffers asphyxiation after the first round (see Drowning and Asphyxiation, page 156).

8 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Which of these is more scary: Darth Vader force-choking someone, and Darth Vader shooting someone? You really don't see a difference between those two? I mean I get the logical "they're both dead, so no difference" side of it, but I imagine Spock saying that to Bones, who then has a fit about Vulcans and their lack of emotion. There's a definite emotional side to someone choking to death gasping for air.

This is why I didn't spoke of striking (with a sword) but of burning them alive, making their flesh explode and other nice things.

Hello Jeff,

First, thanks for your answers, the work you do and the time you spend with us.

12 hours ago, Jeff said:

In retrospect, I clearly gave people too many tools with sorcery in the core rules. With the next edition, I'll strip out every spell except those likely to be found at a Lhankor Mhy temple (Enhance INT, Identify Otherworld Entity, Geomancy, Logical Clarity, Logician, Reveal Rune, Solace of the Logical Mind, Speak to Mind, and Total Recall). As the rules say on page 389, the Lhankor Mhy cult teaches a LIMITED number of sorcery spells and not every temple possesses all of those spells.

I agree with you on that point. If you wanted us to only have sorcery users as LM cultists, the other options should not have been presented. Options that are presented are here to be used by the players. I am nonetheless happy that those options are present, and am also happy to use them. I am waiting impatiently to have the complement, whether in a lunar, western or sorcery dedicated book.

13 hours ago, Jeff said:

Also it seems it is clearly too much to assume that people can figure out that a sorcery spell that kills people through asphyxiation is going to be viewed as evil by most people.

For a human earthling, I fully agree with you, but I see it as evil as killing them with sling stones or axes.

For a Gloranthan, is it more evil to kill somebody by removing air around him (steal breath), making his flesh explode (disruption), removing his soul (sever spirit), transforming him in a pile of ashes (conflagration) or burning him with electricity (lightning)? If we accept one, why not accepting the others? In addition, I have seen Steal Breath (and it's parent RQ3's Smother) as a way not to kill somebody, as BRP has no proper non lethal combat rule: What I do is cast Smother/Steal Breath, and once it takes effect, propose to surrender, explaining that I will drop the spell (easy to do because the spell is active) once he has surrendered. I of course do not extend the courtesy to broos or scorpionmen (dragonsnails don't surrender and gorp don't breath), and always accept when somebody surrender. Try to offer to surrender to somebody that was the target of a big lightning or conflagration.

For the social stigmata, I have perceived Steal Breath as the heir of RQ3's Smother (one of the 2 RQ3 direct combat spells with Venom), that never had any special stigmata attached to it. It had of course those concerning Sorcery, but nothing more. I understand that contrary to Smother, Steal Breath uses Tap, but nothing in Tap technique's description p 384 says anything about being more evil than Command or Summon. In fact, even Tap Body (heir of RQ3's Tap SIZ) has nothing explained about that (although RQ3 was specifically describing Tap STAT as potentially evil, depending on the caster's culture).

19 minutes ago, Marc said:

I've always ruled that the Steal Breath spell targets a volume of AIR, not a person.  So, no need for a POW vs. POW roll.  On the other hand, that also means that anyone that happens to be standing in that volume of air just has to move out of it to avoid suffocation.

It can be read that way. In fact, we also play it that way. Either you target an area, and everybody inside is affected but can move out, or you target somebody, and you need POW vs POW, only this target is affected, and he can't escape by moving because he is the target.

6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I suspect that the problem stems from the fact that this is not evident in the rules. I can kind of understand someone who looked at the spell list, thought that looks awesome in an rpg-murder-hobo-way and didn't see the down side of it.

I completely agree here. Nothing in the rules gives the smallest info about that, even for somebody that is not a murder hobo.

6 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

I can also see how that is very naive and how they should have foreseen that an entire kingdom of air-worshippers would take a dim view of it.

Even if not being naive.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Getting back to the original problem - if he uses it on people, people that Orlanthi (assuming that's whom he is among) care even fractionally about, he's in trouble. If he uses it on monsters, not so much. "You took the air away from a Broo? Good on you, don't want that filth sucking in and tainting Umath's body!"

Completely agree here. In fact, this is the very reason my character took it (in addition to my taste for the extra MP).

6 hours ago, coffeemancer said:

For the sorcerer-player who is entirely new to the world...

Just see above answer. I am playing RQ since '84, so am not really a newbie. But if something presented in the rules is supposed to be problematic or to be restricted to a restricted category for such or such reason, this HAS to be written in the rules.

3 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

One time in my RQ3 game, the party sorcerer used Multispell Venom 1 against a big tough monster figuring that they would fail to overcome its huge CON anyway so might as well just go for a bunch of single points. Unfortunately the big bad had "reflects 1 point spells" as a chaotic ability.. Resurrection, please!

Good.

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Can only use one Rune or Passion per "scene". 

I understand that a single rune can only be used once, not that you can only use one rune. Maybe I am wrong.

2 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Nor is it clear that Air is useful in POW vs. POW, that would be Moon.  (Or Sing, Dance, etc...)

Agreed, it should be Moon rune.

39 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

It doesn't even need to be looked at in an RPG-murder-hoboy-way... it's right there in the spell list, and just looks like any other offensive spell. There are no caveats about using the Tap technique either that I can see in the rulebook, so one would have to read the Guide or something to learn about that. In fact, the example of learning a new technique on p384 shows a character learning Tap!

Without knowing about the taboo around tapping, common sense would dictate that if it's ok to hit someone with an axe, then it's also ok to attack them with sorcery spells, be they fireballs or asphyxiation.

Exactly my point.

40 minutes ago, lordabdul said:

It does occur to me however that Stealing Breath from a Broo may be a bad idea... you're drawing the creature's breath into you to convert into magic points, but that breath is full of nasty stuff.

Even with the spell name, you are only destroying (ok , tapping) the air in and around him, making him unable to breath, because there is no more air. I agree your reading is as valid as mine.

10 minutes ago, Dissolv said:

That it is one of the greatest treatment of a non-human species of all time in any RPG ever. 

Vampire: The Masquerade?😆

For the OP: As a guy whose character is an Aeolian sorceror that uses Steal Breath quite liberally, I can only tell you how we played it and how I feel it.

- As an attack, it requires a POW vs POW roll. To reduce the effectiveness, you just need to have some targets with more POW than your sorceror.

- Except in ambushes, as an attack spell, Steal Breath sucks because it is painfully slow to cast, and even slower to have effect. Take opportunity of those times to target the sorceror. I am now quite accustomed to be on the receiving end of attacks when I start a casting that is more than 1 round long. In fact, everybody that cast a spell in combat whose casting is more than 1 round long should expect to be the target of all attacks, just because such a spell is usually very potent (and the caster is quite often a sitting duck while casting).

- Don't count too much on the concentration roll. My character rolled 16 for INT. I added 2 of the 3 extra points, plus a major in fire rune. With a total of 20, the concentration roll is 60%, sufficiently high to success at least 1 or 2 rounds.

- The social stigma is important. I have even renamed the spell 'Call for Orlanth Strength' when I use it only for MP gain and not as an attack, just to avoid annoying to much any witnesses. I almost never use it openly as an attack. Use those stigma to good effect, and your sorceror will become more careful.

- As a steal breath is rarely cast (as an attack) with a strength over 3 or 4, just because you need the intensity to build up the range (and is most often cast with a strength of 1), a simple countermagic 3 can block it. Countermagic is a very frequent spell. Use it, and don't forget it is an active spell you can target with dispel, and that you  can (must?) target the caster that has to concentrate. If an opponent see someone casting a big spell, stays concentrated and one of his buddies start to suffocate, the normal reaction is to launch an all out attacks on this helpless guy.

- The most important effect of Steal Breath is not as an attack, but as a way to start a combat, or even a spirit combat with more that 100 MP in stock and all your storage full. I always start my planned combats with lots of MP when I have the time to prepare. Victory is much easier, especially in the case of spirit combat, as MP are also your Hit Points.

50 minutes ago, Brootse said:

Iirc it was one per round. It's not in the rules, but it was cleared in some thread.

It is in the rules at several locations. For example p 334: It takes one melee round to store 1 magic point in an Enchanted item.

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

I guess I would not allow the sorcerer to take a break from Tapping. Once his concentration falters or the target leaves the targeting perception, the conversion of air to MP stops. The spell still goes on in the passive mode that allows the sorcerer to keep those MP available.

As long as the sorcerer has as many or more MP than his personal maximum, the spell continues in passive mode. That passive mode spell can be dispelled, which would result in a dispersal of any MP exceeding the sorcerer's capacity.

Same reading for me.

18 minutes ago, PhilHibbs said:

Dispel Magic and Dismiss Magic have to act against the total spell Intensity, which is how many points of manipulation are applied (plus one for the basic spell, I guess). Note that this is not the sum of the Duration, Strength, and Range components as you get 1 of each for the first point of spell. So Strength 2 Range 2 Duration 2 is a 4 Intensity spell (1,1,1 is the base, with three manipulations applied).

This is one of the points where RQG sorcerors are at an advantage compared to RQ3: In both case, it has to counter Intensity, which for RQG is combined manipulation, and for RQ3, is equivalent to RQG Strength.

Battle of Cannae is about 70000 losses for roman armies, roughly 10% of adult males or 5% of adult society. It is considered the heaviest disaster of their whole history. So yes, 2.8% of adults is very high (just one step below catastrophic), especially for a minor skirmish.

8 minutes ago, John Biles said:

That's off Hound Dog, which has the line 'You're nothing but a hound dog, lying all the time'

Lopers, however, are rather more dangerous.

Never heard of Hound dog. I will have a check. Thanks for the info.

35 minutes ago, John Biles said:

Noted Catticus Solo  Songs from the Rite:

• Elven Beds Are Burning
• I Fought the Law Rune and the Rune Won
• My Way (Or You Will Die)
• Blue Saird Shoes
• You Are Nothing But A Loper, So Please Do Not Eat Me
• Blue Moon Over Prax
• Welcome to My Empire

Very good

35 minutes ago, John Biles said:

• You Are Nothing But A Loper, So Please Do Not Eat Me

But this one I don't recognize. Please help (I need somebody help).

11 hours ago, Glorion said:

Lie is an Instant spell, so not extendable.

Which means it also can't be dispelled.

I think the Helmet as a bonus for armor works well only with variable armor. With BRP, for me, fixed armor goes with localized damage.

Even if I imagine (all the people) more her through Black Sabbath's "Iron (wo)man", the first thing that came to my mind reading this thread is, by the Beat(pot)les

Jar-Eel, ma belle
These are words that go together well
My Jar-Eel
Jar-Eel, ma belle
Sont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble
Tres bien ensemble
I love you, I love you, I love you
That's all I want to say
Until I find a way
I will say the only words I know that you'll understand
Jar-Eel, ma belle
Sont les mots qui vont tres bien ensemble
Tres bien ensemble
I need to, I need to, I need to
I need to make you see
Oh, what you mean to me
Until I do, I'm hoping you will know what I mean
I love you
I want you, I want you, I want you
I think you…

2 hours ago, Stephen L said:

Putting jokes aside (which, probably, is to going off topic for this thread).  The tickle stick represents dispel magic.  It's only against a 1 point rune spell.

Completely true. I wrote exactly the same thing last Tuesday.

2 hours ago, Stephen L said:

For me, the encounter with bad man is helping you find your own inner strength and power, (aka fetch and shamanistic abilities), so paring away the external layers of the the would-be-shaman would be entirely appropriate, especially if that is dispelling *divine* magic.

Fully agree here. I wrote: "His role is to test the would be shaman, but I also expect him to have a bag of tricks of his own. "

26 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

Once the spell is cast, he’ll probably remember a prior engagement, and pop-off for a bit.  But don’t go away, I’ll be right back.  In about 15 mins or so.  We can pick up where we left off.  And, in apology for the inconvenience, I’ll bring back a bun or two to share.

As we are speaking of egregiousness, the spell just needs to be extended to at least 6 hours (max duration of the discorporation).

28 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

I wonder what the Bad man is doing for the 3 rounds whilst you’re summoning up the magic points for the spell.

You cast the spell before discorporation, of course.Why wait for 3 rounds before having the effect.

40 minutes ago, Stephen L said:

I believe that swords have to be checked in through the “oversized items” portal at the spirit plane checkin.  It’s just beyond desk H.

Nice.

On 11/24/2020 at 8:11 PM, PhilHibbs said:

You can't take a sword onto the spirit plane.

It now seems you can. Too bad for Son Goku and his Truefist and Fist Trance.

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

2. Any PC with a couple of adventures under his or her belt is likely to have some kind of MP storage, making the expenditure of a few MPs from storage completely unimportant.

I play that you can sacrifice only your own MP, not stored ones.

1 hour ago, Caras said:

So basicly Worship should always be automatic success and players don´t even throw it... Unless it is important part of the scenario?

Or if the players are requesting something for the next Holy Day. This is how I play (and GM) them.

1 hour ago, tnli said:

Unless the spirit decides to sling spells back at them! 

The problem with using spells is that they use MP, which are also your Hit Points (so to speak) in Spirit Combat. Characters may have crystals or MP matrix, but spirit can not, so, for them, casting spells can be very dangerous.

On 11/18/2020 at 11:34 PM, tnli said:

As of now it is unclear whether temporary damage boosting Sorcery effects (such as Boon of Kargan Tur) allow you to whack at spirits. 

I have already asked, and Scotty's answer was yes.

11 minutes ago, DreadDomain said:

Now I see there is another potential interpretation.

Yes, another one.

13 minutes ago, Mossmac said:

I am particularly interested in ideas for rewarding players who make special and critical rolls on the worship roll, which I can see happening quite a bit.

On this, we agree.